New iBooks and PowerBooks?

[eric_n_dfw]

No more 12" ?

From the article

In line with other information circulating at the moment the iBook will probably get a faster processor and standard 14" screens with Apple dropping the 12" screen.

I sure hope this is wrong - one of the big draws to the iBook it it's miniscule size. I am not interested in a 14" laptop for "personal use". It would eat into the tiBook's sales too, unless the tiBook got some big bump up as well.
<BEGIN_WILD_SPECULATION>
Of course, this could also mean that long rumored iWalk/iPod+/iPalm/iWhatever PDA or that Tablet Mac thing thing-a-ma-bob is more than vaporware. Get rid of the 12" iBook and release some uber-cool, small form factor replacement.
</END_WILD_SPECULATION>
(I doubt it!)

 

[drastik]

The batery won't push it, yet...

...and even for the video pro's the need for portable burning is still very limited. GAV, everything you want to do with a superdrive can be accomplished from a desktop rig in an office. I wouldn'd think you shoot a project, go to Waffle House and edit it, burn the discs, and drop them in the nearest mail box. The product just doesn't get complete that quickly. As for large backups, that akes some real time too, and I don't think anyone wants to do it at the subway station, especialy when our already dealing with a stationary, fiewire external drive.

I work with Video, too, and I undersand wanting a machine that's the whole package. But there are still some things that have to be done on the desk just because of time tables, and I'd rather deal with a few more cables and power stripes than add another pound to the TiBook.

 

[mcrain]

Originally posted by kishba
i just think a superdrive in a laptop is too crazy... why would you want to burn from a laptop?

If the new laptop you just bought sucked your account dry, and you wanted to burn a DVD, you just might want your new laptop to have that capability without having to go out and buy a firewire dvd-r drive and dvd pro or whatever it is called.

 

[ftaok]

Re: Re: Re: Super Ti-Book

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe iDVD runs without a G4. Now, if that article is right, and a G4 iBook comes out (which would rock!) then your comment is completely accurate.

My perfect DVD-R world has iDVD working with FireWire DVD-R drives. (I know, I know, dream on!) And don't tell me to go shell out a grand for DVD Pro Studio! ;oP

You're correct. I've also been saying for a while now that the iBook will eventually get the G4 as well.

Interestingly enough, Formac has a new Firewire DVD-R/RW drive that works with both OS 9 and X. Plus, it comes with DVD authoring software that works with both G4s and G3s. If Formac can make software for the G3, then why can't Apple? The cynical answer is that they want us to buy G4s and will eventually phase out the G3 altogether.

 

[drastik]

account dry

lets be realistic here.

A new TiBook with any kind of speed bumb AND a superdrive, is going to run somewhere over 3000USD, maybe even 3500USD.

This is, no question, a pro machine. It isn't made for a consumer who has to empty their retirement fund to buy it. Its made for people who expect to make more money as a result of owning it, and who can write it off on their taxes. Money shouldn't be an issue.

Sure, everybody wants the top of the line machine, but we're talking about something approaching the price of my first car, which I will admit wasn't so hot, but it probably still runs, and they haven't come out with an engine upgrade to obsolece it. (unless you think in terms of cylinders)

If money is that much of an issue, you should seriously conside wether you need the technology at all. That's why apple offers models that don't carry the superdrive, not everybody needs that and leaving one out saves a lot of money, not to mention weight.

 

[ftaok]

Re: The batery won't push it, yet...

Originally posted by drastik
...and even for the video pro's the need for portable burning is still very limited. GAV, everything you want to do with a superdrive can be accomplished from a desktop rig in an office. I wouldn'd think you shoot a project, go to Waffle House and edit it, burn the discs, and drop them in the nearest mail box. The product just doesn't get complete that quickly. As for large backups, that akes some real time too, and I don't think anyone wants to do it at the subway station, especialy when our already dealing with a stationary, fiewire external drive.

I work with Video, too, and I undersand wanting a machine that's the whole package. But there are still some things that have to be done on the desk just because of time tables, and I'd rather deal with a few more cables and power stripes than add another pound to the TiBook.

NOTE - I'm not a video pro, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

Here's why video pros need a notebook with a SuperDrive.

Let's say that this "pro" is working on a project at work. I don't know, editing some sports video hi-lights. He looks at the clock and it's 6:38pm and he needs to get home, but he also needs to finish the DVD by 9am. What's a struggling "pro" to do?

He packs the notebook up and takes it home with him. After dinner, our hero gets right back to work to finish up that last bit of video. Then he burns his DVD and all's good.

As far as the battery not being robust enough to handle DVD burning, that's what they make plugs for. I don't think that you'd really want to burn DVDs while you're in a plane anyways, unless you like to make coasters.

 

[eric_n_dfw]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Super Ti-Book

Originally posted by ftaok
Interestingly enough, Formac has a new Firewire DVD-R/RW drive that works with both OS 9 and X. Plus, it comes with DVD authoring software that works with both G4s and G3s. If Formac can make software for the G3, then why can't Apple? The cynical answer is that they want us to buy G4s and will eventually phase out the G3 altogether. [/B]

I have to wonder how easy the software is to use, does it do the menus and what-not. Heck, I can buy a DVD-RW drive and burn movies to it with Toast 5 today. The G3/G4 argument is that, with a G4, it only takes "1 to 3 times the length of your media" to encode the MPEG2 data. I don't know if you've used Final Cut Pro or not, but when FCP 2 came out and I moved from a G3/400 to a G4/400, it was like whiplash. Code optimized for Velocity Engine/AltiVec SSE processors is simply amazing. I wouldn't at all be surprised if iDVD on a G3 would take 10 - 20 times as long to render that MPEG2 data.

I'll be watching 2-pop.com for comments on Formac's software.

 

[drastik]

plugs and planes

I think your exactly right about the plugs, which is why I think apple shouldn't rush the superdrive. I believe that before long all machines will carry one, but not untill the technology is right. Meanwhile, if I have to plug in to use the drive, why have it in the computer at all, save the weight.

Taking work home is a good thing sometimes, but untill the superdrive fits in the slim ase and doesn't add a lot of weight, I'll just go back to the office. Of course, I work freelance, and my office is about two feel from my bedroom, so that's not realy my problem. Followng that line, however, I think portables appeal more to freelancers than office managers. It's just more going in and out to a big company. They want people to work at their desks anyway.

I'd think, and somebody may have already found this out, if you took a survey of all the pro Mac users who use Macs in the course of their business, especialy anything vaugly production-esque, you'd find the majority to be freelancers or very small firms.

 

[ftaok]

Re: account dry

Originally posted by drastik
lets be realistic here.

A new TiBook with any kind of speed bumb AND a superdrive, is going to run somewhere over 3000USD, maybe even 3500USD.

This is, no question, a pro machine. It isn't made for a consumer who has to empty their retirement fund to buy it. Its made for people who expect to make more money as a result of owning it, and who can write it off on their taxes. Money shouldn't be an issue.

The TiBook, right now, costs $2300 and $3000. When Apple upgrades speed, they tend to keep the price points the same (or in some cases, reduced). So the speed bump should have no impact on the list price of the SuperDrive TiBook.

The cost of a Firewire DVD-RW drive is about $500. A slot-loading one that's required for a TiBook would probably cost Apple about that much. How much do slot-loading Combo Drives cost? Without knowing this info, it's kinda hard to determine the pricing.

Here's my guess for the price points for these new TiBook (when they arrive).

Lo - 667mhz, combo ($2200)
Mid - 800mhz, combo ($2800)
Hi - 800mhz, super ($3100)

As for the SuperDrive being only for pro notebooks, I beg to differ. I suspect that a hi-end iBook with a 600mhz G4 and a SuperDrive could be sold at $2000 or $2100. I know that this would overlap with the lo-end TiBook, but maybe Apple doesn't even offer the LoTiBook.

 

[cmoney]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Super Ti-Book

Originally posted by ftaok
You're correct. I've also been saying for a while now that the iBook will eventually get the G4 as well.

Interestingly enough, Formac has a new Firewire DVD-R/RW drive that works with both OS 9 and X. Plus, it comes with DVD authoring software that works with both G4s and G3s. If Formac can make software for the G3, then why can't Apple? The cynical answer is that they want us to buy G4s and will eventually phase out the G3 altogether.

Apple can make iDVD run with a G3. But since Apple keeps the G3s a bit slower than the G4s and since the G3 without Altivec is many many times slower than the G4, could you imagine the field day the press would have when they compared a 600-700MHz G3 iMac burning a DVD to a similarly priced 2GHz Win XP computer?

One of Apple's selling points has been how much faster DVD burning and MPEG encoding is on a Mac. Adding G3s to the mix only confuses the marketing pitch and could potentially frustrate users. Imagine Grandpa saying his iMac G3 has been creating a DVD for the past 4 hours!

 

[drastik]

money issues

You're probably right about the price points.

My point was simply that buying technology you don't need is not a good idea at these prices. Burning your own DVDs for personal use is nice, but its a luxury.

First your going to need a DV camera or an Analog bridge, so theres four or five hundred bucks to boot.

Second, If you must have you stuff on disc use VCD. Its cheaper than video tape. Video is longer, but at ten cents a disc or so for an hour of footage, VCD is still the cheadpest option. I usually use VCD's to show clients rough cuts of the work anyway, then delver final copies on DVD. Running through pricey media just to be told that they wont some small change done get pricey, not to mention annoying.

I think that, untill the technology is right, the combo drive is ideally suited to mobile professionals. Of course that;s really the best option right now

Wait a year maybe, and the superdrives will fit into the one inch case. Threee years ago I was amazed at a G3 400 running Final Cut with firewire on the back. things change fast.

 

[BobVB]

Re: Apple.com is 5x5.

Originally posted by Xapplimatic
No problems with the Apple site here.. however, I do find it premature for Apple to release new portables again.. I think that waits until at least June.

June is too late for bulk school orders. School districts have allocated their monies and placed their orders by June. That's why they release the original iBook in mid May and they might have wanted to push even that date back a few weeks.

If they do have something new to offer in iBooks, the next few weeks are the time to make it available for order. The Titanium book upgrade might be necessary because of the features they will be adding (just to keep the Tibook from looking too long in the tooth)

 

[mcrain]

Re: Re: Re: Super Ti-Book

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
My perfect DVD-R world has iDVD working with FireWire DVD-R drives. (I know, I know, dream on!) And don't tell me to go shell out a grand for DVD Pro Studio! ;oP

Speaking of which, why does iDvd not work with an external drive?

That just seems pretty silly.

 

[buffsldr]

Re: The batery won't push it, yet...

Originally posted by drastik
...and even for the video pro's the need for portable burning is still very limited. GAV, everything you want to do with a superdrive can be accomplished from a desktop rig in an office. I wouldn'd think you shoot a project, go to Waffle House and edit it, burn the discs, and drop them in the nearest mail box. The product just doesn't get complete that quickly. As for large backups, that akes some real time too, and I don't think anyone wants to do it at the subway station, especialy when our already dealing with a stationary, fiewire external drive.

I work with Video, too, and I undersand wanting a machine that's the whole package. But there are still some things that have to be done on the desk just because of time tables, and I'd rather deal with a few more cables and power stripes than add another pound to the TiBook.

Very solid points drastik. Your insight reminds me of S Jobs explaining why the new iMac was not just the old iMac chopped in half. "Let each element be true to itself".

 

[buffsldr]

Re: Re: The batery won't push it, yet...

Originally posted by ftaok
NOTE - I'm not a video pro, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

Here's why video pros need a notebook with a SuperDrive.

Let's say that this "pro" is working on a project at work. I don't know, editing some sports video hi-lights. He looks at the clock and it's 6:38pm and he needs to get home, but he also needs to finish the DVD by 9am. What's a struggling "pro" to do?

He packs the notebook up and takes it home with him. After dinner, our hero gets right back to work to finish up that last bit of video. Then he burns his DVD and all's good.

As far as the battery not being robust enough to handle DVD burning, that's what they make plugs for. I don't think that you'd really want to burn DVDs while you're in a plane anyways, unless you like to make coasters.

Lol....ftaok, I am not trying to slam you, but the scenario you painted is odd. If this project is so important, why do you need to go home and eat dinner. whats wrong with take out in your office? If you have to go home (an emergency or unbreakable appointment) what good does having the computer with you do? you cant work anyway. If commute time is huge, then you have a point. But its cheaper, more ergonomic to get 2 desktops, 1 for home, 1 for work. I dont know, you might be right, but I just think you have to draw the line somewhere. Present technology just doesnt give the laptop the ability to be all things to all people.

 

[eric_n_dfw]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Super Ti-Book

Originally posted by mcrain
Speaking of which, why does iDvd not work with an external drive?

That just seems pretty silly.

Because Apple is a hardware company - it's the same reason they don't have OS X for x86. Porting everything sans Classic would be fairly easy as OpenStep 4 (aka Rhapsody after the buyout) was running on x86 for years.
People buy SuperDrive machines to run iDVD, Apple makes money.
I know a guy who just bought an iMac last night to burn DVD's of iMovie stuff he makes on his tiBook. He's a programmer/geek like me and could surely get a FireWire DVD-R and use some 3rd party software (or pay for DVD Pro Studio) but he justifies it with his wallet (and wife) with the ease of use and ergonomics that iMac and iDVD deliver.

The only reason iDVD doesn't support external drives is because Apple doesn't want it to... and I don't really blame them. (even if it does not please me)

 

[mcrain]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super Ti-Book

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
The only reason iDVD doesn't support external drives is because Apple doesn't want it to... and I don't really blame them. (even if it does not please me)

So, the reason it doesn't work is because Apple doesn't want competition for its machines?

Boy, that sounds awfully anti-competitive doesn't it?

Can you smell a potential lawsuit? I wonder if a qui tam could be filed on something like this.

(Visions of fees dancing in my head)

 

[serpicolugnut]

No...

So, the reason it doesn't work is because Apple doesn't want competition for its machines?

Apple gives iDVD away. The reason Apple developed it was to sell hardware with DVD-RW drives built in. This is hardly anticompetitive. It's a very common business practice.

That said, there are patches out there that allow iDVD2 to work with external firewire DVD-R drives.

 

[SPG]

There's more than one way to skin a cat, in this case all the people eroniously talking about the "Panasonic Superdrive" might actually be on to something even if they didn't intend it. The Pioneer A03 aka Superdrive is not the only drive currently available to burn DVD's. Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba all either have DVD burners on the market or have them in late stages of development. One of these companies or Pioneer may have been able to get their drive size shrunk down small enough to fit into a reformed high end powerbook (notice I didn't say tiBook or iBook?). There may very well be a tiBook with a burner coming out, but as a professional DVD author I don't think that I would neccesarily pay a premium to own one. First of all most pro authors don't use DVD Studio Pro and the Sonic, Scenarist, Spruce, and other true "Pro" applications won't run on a laptop because they need cards. Secondly the kind of stuff I do on a laptop is better suited to CD, and DVD burners are notoriously slow and buggy at CD burning. The consumer/prosumer might want a all in one solution, but the DVDR will most likely be the high end of the highend book.
__________________
Another $.02 deposited, thankyouverymuch.

 

[SPG]

Hey SPG! What are you thinking? The ability to burn DVD media would be abig help to even a knucklehead like you. Think about it, the ability to back up all those long boring documentaries you keep editing. A place to back up all your MP3's and porn so you can access them from any machine. DVD is not just DVD video you know.
____________________
Invest your $.02 in Enron butthead!

 

[King Cobra]

I would argue for keeping 12 inch iBooks for the sake of battery life and portability. The iBook battery power has usually been of high quality, but by changing the screen to 14" that means you probably will need an extra 10 to 20 percent, considering that the area is being increased by some amount as well.

Besides, didn't the iBook represent easy portability? By increasing the screen to 14" you are not making the iBook any more portable. You change the size and the weight.

That's just my argument.
_______________

In the time it takes to read this message, an Apple computer will have performed 15 billion more float point operations than a consumer PC.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by SPG
Hey SPG! What are you thinking? The ability to burn DVD media would be abig help to even a knucklehead like you. Think about it, the ability to back up all those long boring documentaries you keep editing. A place to back up all your MP3's and porn so you can access them from any machine. DVD is not just DVD video you know.
____________________
Invest your $.02 in Enron butthead!

Whoa dude! Talk about multiple personality disorder...I've heard of boosting your post count before, but this is ridiculous!

Remember to sign out, and then back in as someone different if you want to start a flamewar with yourself...

[Edit] x

 

[gooddog]

New Enclosure for iBook

I may buy if fit and finish is Apple-worthy !!!

(1)

I think it's a great idea if the new enclosure features two latch hooks ( one at each side of the screen ) operated by a single button on the middle of the upper lid's front edge. The current single, center-mount latch often closes with a tilted lid or a "gullwing" upper lid that makes the otherwise gorgeous iBook
look like a cheap cigar box that got waterlogged.

(2)

Also, let's have a VERY slight "overbite" lip on the screen lid front, to cover up the "safety gap" between the screen and the keyboard. This gap looks awful in many units and it lets debris fall down into that space to ruin the screen.

Both features a very nicely executed in Sony's personal DVD player with 7" LCD, the
DVP-FX1 model.

---gooddog

 

[eric_n_dfw]

Apple != anti-competitive

Originally posted by mcrain
So, the reason it doesn't work is because Apple doesn't want competition for its machines?

Boy, that sounds awfully anti-competitive doesn't it?

Can you smell a potential lawsuit? I wonder if a qui tam could be filed on something like this.

(Visions of fees dancing in my head)

Apple has always tied their hardware tightly to their software - that's why everything works as well as it does. iDVD is software made specifically for Apple branded "SuperDrive" equipped Mac's. Want to use a different DVD-RW? Go buy different software. The fact that ForMac has come out with their own is proof that competition is alive and kicking. (Not to mention the competition from the Wintel camp)

 

[SPG]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Whoa dude! Talk about multiple personality disorder...I've heard of boosting your post count before, but this is ridiculous!

Remember to sign out, and then back in as someone different if you want to start a flamewar with yourself...

[Edit] Seriously...stop it, or it's off to arn you go...

Whoa dude yourself. After reviewing my initial post I thought that I came across a little heavy handed and flaming myself as myself was an entertaining way to get the old "on the other hand..." statement out there. I never intended to disguise myself by logging in under another name.
The repeat posting of my first post must have happened while hitting the back button, for that I apologize and if Arn wants to deduct a post from my counter that's fine. (I'm not much of a post number watcher anyway.)