New iBooks, Mac minis and iPod shuffles at MWSF 2006?

[aegisdesign]

970mp isnt going in iMac be assured, Yonah will. Single Cores for the Consumer, Duals,Quads for the pro's. This is going to be a great year and i wouldnt put it past Apple to have all machines Intel by the end of 2006.

If they put a single core Yonah in the iMac it'll be slower than the current G5 iMac. Not going to happen.

Second half of 2006 you've got Conroe anyway.

 

[JoeG4]

Apple does the video stream stuff every year.

As far as PB whining goes, I have my PB -- a 1.5ghz G4 model I got back in May, and FWIW I couldn't care if a dual G5 came out, my PB won't get any worse

I don't think the G4 owners will be whining ('cept those with the bad screens), it'll be the ones who couldn't afford a PowerBook and only able to get an iBook but demanded that Apple somehow make their computers cheaper so they could afford them that did and will keep whining when they see that Apple still won't drop their prices (drastically, anyway).

I could keep preaching to the choir there, but no matter what Apple does, their machines will still be considered relatively expensive, even if they use the same components other companies do because they're not the same machines at all. Apple's are all fancy what with their backlit keyboards, slot loading drives, that impeccable build quality, etc.. Even the box is expensive compared to the junk most PC manufacturers use.

Unless Apple drops what makes their computers Apple computers, they'll still be too expensive This part I'm looking forward to, because as usual it'll be something drool-worthy no matter what.

****, Steve-O could make a Celeron look good, I'm sure. Not that I'd want to see that, and I'd be really mad if they used ANY type of "integrated graphics chipset" (aka the Intel ones, or worse yet -- an SiS one!), but I know they won't do that!

 

[JoeG4]

Apple does the video stream stuff every year.

As far as PB whining goes, I have my PB -- a 1.5ghz G4 model I got back in May, and FWIW I couldn't care if a dual G5 came out, my PB won't get any worse

I don't think the G4 owners will be whining ('cept those with the bad screens), it'll be the ones who couldn't afford a PowerBook and only able to get an iBook but demanded that Apple somehow make their computers cheaper so they could afford them that did and will keep whining when they see that Apple still won't drop their prices (drastically, anyway).

I could keep preaching to the choir there, but no matter what Apple does, their machines will still be considered relatively expensive, even if they use the same components other companies do because they're not the same machines at all. Apple's are all fancy what with their backlit keyboards, slot loading drives, that impeccable build quality, etc.. Even the box is expensive compared to the junk most PC manufacturers use.

Unless Apple drops what makes their computers Apple computers, they'll still be too expensive This part I'm looking forward to, because as usual it'll be something drool-worthy no matter what.

****, Steve-O could make a Celeron look good, I'm sure. Not that I'd want to see that, and I'd be really mad if they used ANY type of "integrated graphics chipset" (aka the Intel ones, or worse yet -- an SiS one!), but I know they won't do that!

 

[supersalzme]

When it comes down to it, if the ibooks come out, and they are fast, and have the features I need, I will buy one. Why not? I will save 500 bucks, and can use that 500 to max out the ibook. Come to think of it....if the powerbooks ARE released at the same time...they would have to have something pretty amazing that the ibooks don't have for me to fork out the extra cash.

 

[aegisdesign]

You guys are too hopeful, I think. Apple has made an effort to be more price competitive with the other PC providers. It's the one of the big reasons they moved to Intel. You guys keep thinking for the fancy - Yonah, this, dual-core that. Let me tell you, we'll see the iBook will debut with a Celeron M processor at a ~$700 price range. That's what Apple needs to do to win market share, and I don't see why they'd even bother with anything better for their iBooks.

I think you're probably right. The next Celeron M gets launched that week too alongside Yonah. It's probably not a bad chip either and still faster than the iBook's current G4.

Or they could just announce an iPod Shuffle replacement and iLife06 and thats all. I can imagine the uproar now. ;-)

 

[hob]

Apple UK have been sending out invitations to selected people in the UK to join them for a live webcast of Steve Job's address at BBC television centre in White City. If I remember rightly, last time this happened was when the move to Intel was announced, people would be very disappointed if there wasn't a major announcement....

Where can I go to watch this webcast? I am just a concerned citizen but there must be SOMEWHERE in London open to the public with a big screen... hmmmm, THE APPLE STORE maybe? I mean I've heard they do it but not so much these days... If the regent street store did that I'd be there at 8am...

The distinction between powerbooks and ibooks used to be G3/G4. Now that they'll all have completely new processors, why bother distinguishing them. We could see an entirely new line of laptop which will run from the low end to the high end. These new iBooks could replace both the current i and Powerbooks which would all be discontinued. Then in 6 months when the new processors arrive they just add faster models to the lineup and shunt the slowest one off the shelf.

I thought this too for about 2 minutes. I came to the conclusion that they have two lines for a very good reason. Apple may introduce the iBook first, and the powerbook later but they will keep the powerbook. This is because there really are two types of user out there. I have two good friends at Uni who use Apple laptops.
Tom uses a 12" iBook mainly to create and listen to music. And it does it very well. He takes it all over the place, it's rough, tough and chock full of cool music, videos etc.
Henry uses his 15" PowerBook only on his desk. It's plugged in pretty much 24/7. He does video editing, and occasionally listens to music. He doesn't take it anywhere. He needs the extra processing power, and has the money to pay for it.

iBooks are rock solid, powerbooks are soft like butter. iBooks are great for schoolkids, active types and clumsy people (like me), Powerbooks are great for those who have a bit more money to spend, and actually need the power.

Personally, I think it's because I now have every apple product I will need/afford in the next few years, I'm not too fussed about these rumors. Seems to me, we will see Shuffles, iBooks and Mac Minis in January. But didn't we know this like a month ago?

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

If they put a single core Yonah in the iMac it'll be slower than the current G5 iMac. Not going to happen.

Second half of 2006 you've got Conroe anyway.

Where do you dream that crap up? Yonah was about matching Athlons 64 with less power. Single AMD Athlon 64s match up very well to dual G5s and slaughter them in gaming. G5 at the same clock will be HAMMERED by a Yonah. Prepare yourself for this.

 

[aegisdesign]

Henry uses his 15" PowerBook only on his desk. It's plugged in pretty much 24/7. He does video editing, and occasionally listens to music. He doesn't take it anywhere. He needs the extra processing power, and has the money to pay for it.

Then he bought the wrong machine.

An iMac G5 is faster, has a bigger faster drive, has a better larger screen and is significantly cheaper than a laptop. With his saving he could have bought an iBook as a second machine.


Buying a laptop and then never using it's portability is a false economy.

 

[EricNau]

Now, you and I might scoff at the Celeron M, but do you think most of the buyers of the new iBook - Dad, Mom and Grandparents with the lower price - would even understand. Add that to the fact that Apple will probably not participate with the Intel advertising stipend (putting Celeron M stickers on their machines), and you have a certain win situation for Apple.

But you can't downgrade the iBook either. The least Apple can do would be to put a G4 equivalent in the iBooks, and then make the Powerbooks even better.

 

[hechacker1]

Somebody else alluded to this theory, but i'll state it better:

What if Apple simply phases out "powerbook" and "ibook" and instead comes up with a SINGLE new line of laptops? That would solve the ibook before powerbook problem that so many forum users are complaining about.

With apple hiring Sony engineers, and with the recent talk about debuting a new line of laptops that are not only faster, but smaller and stylish, It really sounds like apple may just come out with an entire new line of laptops that caters to the whole range of users. At the low end you could get a 12" and pick and chose your performance by the means of low voltage or high performance simply by choosing a different processor. Then you have a choice of widescreen and what not.

And if you wan't "high end" you can just go for the 17" widescreen and choose a ultra fast (though not power miser) processor. It allows for more options, yet without having two separate lines..

just my and some other people's theory's. It seems to make sense.

 

[sw1tcher]

Maybe the PowerBook will be announced at MWSF "06 however shipped a few months later.

If there is going to be a 2GB Shuffle, I am gonna get one if it has a screen.

2GB Shuffle with a screen = 2GB Nano.

 

[dernhelm]

You are right, the iMac G5 is NOT a slow computer whatsoever. But once the intels come out, all of the new software coming out will be Intel - not PowerPC (for the most part). It's a hard decision to make.

It may be a hard decision to make, but not because anyone would be producing "intel only" binaries any time soon. It is simply too easy to produce "universal" binaries that run on both PPC and Intel, I doubt any major software would be produced that wouldn't run on both.

 

[nodmonkey]

Processor confusion

Weren't Powerbooks supposed to be using the more advanced Intel Merom processors and not Yonah. I was of the understanding that Yonah was for iBooks and Merom would be for Powerbooks.

Or have I got my processors facts muddled?

 

[cr2sh]

I believe these rumors. I expect to see intel i-series first.

iBooks, in thinner, newly designed cases.. that are lite as hell.

Apple has really fallen behind with these things, the core of the current design has been used since May, 2001!

I mean EVERY other line-up has been COMPLETELY CHANGED TWICE, since this design came out... yet the iBook remains mostly the same.

Come on, let's see something as thin as two lcd screens, strong and lite as hell. With a 13" 1280x1024 screen!

 

[Sean7512]

Potential Upsets...

I think many people may be upset in January. Didn't Jobs say that intel computers would be SHIPPING by june of '06? I wouldn't bet everything I had on them coming some 6 months early. I think that Jobs will show us pictures of the new intel ibooks, powerbooks, etc. Then he will talk about their performace, then announce that they will be shipping in maybe 1-2 months. That way, he could release ibooks, powerbooks, and minis at the same time. Im not sure if apple would risk the ibook and the mini to outperform the current powerbooks. Unless apple uses a Celeron M for the ibook and mini , which could bring comparable performance to the current g4's and would certainly not outperform the powerbooks.

I hope that I'm wrong, because I'd love to see the new intel Macs in Jan, but I'd rather be pessimistic and get suprised rather than being optimistic and being let down.

 

[Object-X]

My worthless opinion about all this laptop nonsense is this:

The reason there is all this confusion about Apple's upcoming low-end portable lineup is that the rumor sites are trying to make everything fit into the current product matrix, but I think Apple is going to change it.

Like, for example, Appleinsider was reporting that the 12" PowerBook will disappear. I have a hard time believing this, because that machine sold well (I see them everywhere).

So, what seems more likely is that the iBook line will stop being crippled (i.e., will be able to push a second external display), so that it negates the need for a pro version of their small laptop, or Apple is going to announce a third line of laptops entirely. In other words, the high end remains similar (15" and 17" screens), at the low-end we have some stripped down iBook for budget consumers, and in the middle, we have some kind of new entrant...kind of busting the 12" out as its own category: a true Apple subnotebook.

The specifics of what I'm saying are irrelevant, but my general point is: I believe we're going to see some truly new Apple products...not just the same laptops with different guts.

Actually, your worthless opinion makes sense. Apple could introduce a new product line that could offset declining Powerbook sales. Maybe these super slim portables they are talking about.

I think Apple will expand their product offerings with Intel. I have always thought two lines (iBook & Powerbook), though simple, is too limited. Apple could expand thier product matrix without introducing complexity; that was the reason they gave to reduce it in the first place. I think your on to something suzerain.

 

[aegisdesign]

Where do you dream that crap up? Yonah was about matching Athlons 64 with less power. Single AMD Athlon 64s match up very well to dual G5s and slaughter them in gaming. G5 at the same clock will be HAMMERED by a Yonah. Prepare yourself for this.

Benchmarks other than games. I don't play games. And the fact I've got both a G5 and a Dothan of similar speeds and the G5 toasts it running the same media centric software.

Where are you getting the single Athlon64 toasting the Dual G5 though?

http://www.barefeats.com/macvpc.html is getting old now but the opteron 252 back then was a beast. I've two opteron duals (244s) too but they run Linux so I can't do a compare with the software I use on a Mac.

 

[Thomas Harte]

I think many people may be upset in January. Didn't Jobs say that intel computers would be SHIPPING by june of '06? I wouldn't bet everything I had on them coming some 6 months early.

Yes, but didn't he also tell us that while using an Intel based Mac? This isn't like the PowerPC transition, which was a transition to an entirely new architecture otherwise unused anywhere in the world and was unforseen earlier - OS X has reputedly been compiled and tested on Intel chips since the very beginning, Rhapsody DR2 was even available to the wider development community way back when, the people inside Apple and the developers with cash already have functioning machines and the entire architecture is pretty much an industry standard anyway.

That said, I do generally agree that realistically I'm expecting full product details rather than immediate release.

On the topic of Yonah vs Celeron M, I may have misunderstood this because I don't follow these things religiously but isn't Yonah the official replacement for the Celeron M according to Intel? I had the feeling that they were planning a swift transition for the whole Centrino thing from Celeron M to Yonah, so presumably every budget laptop maker in the world will move forward during 2006. I doubt that, with such a focus change planned, the Intel people would really want a big individual buyer like Apple hanging on their Celeron M line.

 

[budugu]

Crippled G4 to Crippled Yonah

But you can't downgrade the iBook either. The least Apple can do would be to put a G4 equivalent in the iBooks, and then make the Powerbooks even better.

Well Celeron (yonah) version is also not bad (1.5 GHz 533/677 FSB with 1MB cache) performance wise to (1.33 133FSB G4 with 512KB). The only problem if i can remember right is that there are some power saving feature cut from Celeron M (the current version). So using a celeron might give the 6hr battery time a huge hit. That said intel could as well include the power saving features as they are also not that hard pressed to differentiate Pentium M/ celeron M as the number of cores is just enough for people to pop their eyes (imagine being a non techie (heck even techy) offered a notebook with 1 proc vs 2 proc (at a small premium) at you best buy/ cicuit city what ever!) .

 

[aegisdesign]

Weren't Powerbooks supposed to be using the more advanced Intel Merom processors and not Yonah. I was of the understanding that Yonah was for iBooks and Merom would be for Powerbooks.

Or have I got my processors facts muddled?

Facts? This is MacRumors.com.

Everything is speculation. Apple haven't said they'll be using any processor.

 

[M-theory]

Naaa I broke years ago...

^------**on fire today**

 

[alep85]

I can think of only three rationales for putting Intel processors in the iBook (consumer line) before the Powerbook (professional line):

1. The new iBook will have less features than the Powerbook. Professionals will still buy the Powerbook because they need the features it provides (better screen, better connectivity, whatever...).

2. The new iBook will be slower than the Powerbook, at least for certain applications. This could happen if the iBook gets a processor other than Yonah or if Rosetta emulation is worse than we expect. Alternatively, the Powerbook gets a better G4 at the same time (dual-core, better FSB), narrowing the gap.

3. The iBook is the new Powerbook.

Discuss...

I think you all are forgetting the true reason the Powerbook will not yet go Intel.

Have you all forgotten what the true target group the Powerbook was designed for???? Professionals! And professionals want to be able to run their apps fast for whatever reason they need them for (publishing, audio, video, photography, all processor intense things, you think Rosetta, an EMULATOR, is going to be THAT powerful?)

Do you SEE Adobe Creative Studio 2 ready for x86 OS X? How about Pro Tools 7? Logic? Just to name a few!

Point being, developers aren't quite 100 percent ready for the switch. That's why the iBook and/or Mini's are going to come first, the OS, iLife Apps, and many consumer applications will be ported and be fast as hell, and the rest of what consumers need can be run through Rosetta at a slightly slower speed than the G4. It's all most consumers need, and bumping the consumer line will get x86 app development moving even faster. I applaud Apple for this move, it means when the Powerbook and then eventually the PowerMac comes out as Intel, there should be a much larger app base for pros to work with and make the switch to.

C'mon now, guys. THINK! Do you honestly believe that Apple is going to release an Intel PB when the pros that they are designed for have no pro-level apps to run natively?

 

[aegisdesign]

It may be a hard decision to make, but not because anyone would be producing "intel only" binaries any time soon. It is simply too easy to produce "universal" binaries that run on both PPC and Intel, I doubt any major software would be produced that wouldn't run on both.

Exactly. A software company would have to be mad to try to sell an Intel only application. There are no intel macs currently and an estimated 25 million PowerPC macs in use if I recall Jobs' keynote on OSX users. Add in the number of people who didn't buy a copy of OSX and those that use the same copy on multiple Macs.

Even if Apple doubles their sales of Macs this year, PowerPC Mac users will dwarf Intel Mac users for many years.

 

[pixelfreak]

Weren't Powerbooks supposed to be using the more advanced Intel Merom processors and not Yonah. I was of the understanding that Yonah was for iBooks and Merom would be for Powerbooks.

Or have I got my processors facts muddled?

Dual Core Yonah processors are comparable to AMDs entry level desktop processors. This would be a significant boost from G4 processors in both the iBook and Powerbook.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2648

However, I'm with nodmonkey. My guess is that Apple won't release an Intel powerbook until dual-core, shared-cache mobile Merom CPUs are shipping mid to late 2006.

Tom's Hardware : Intel Processor Overview and Release Dates

Even if Apple shipped a Powerbook in January, I doubt there would be much demand since many of the pro apps (Photoshop, Dreamweaver, etc.) are not native yet. Unless Apple can emulate these apps running at G4 speed or greater, I won't be buying a Intel Powerbook anytime soon.

 

[ogun7]

I can think of only three rationales for putting Intel processors in the iBook (consumer line) before the Powerbook (professional line):

Discuss...

I think a lot of people here just don't get it. Professional users from cats at ILM to my photog friends at the New York Times do not jump everytime Apple releases new hardware.

Why?

Because, for pros, it's all about the apps, stupid!

And I quote:
Q. Will Adobe release a version of Adobe Creative Suite 2 for Macintosh computers that use Intel processors?

A. Adobe currently has no plans to update Adobe Creative Suite 2 or any other currently available Adobe products to support Macintosh computers that use Intel processors. Instead, we plan on investing in preparing future versions of our Macintosh products for this new line of computers.

Q. What does this mean for me as an Adobe plug-in developer or system integrator?

A. For developers who are creating plug-ins or solutions for Adobe Creative Suite 2 or any other current Adobe products, such as Photoshop CS2 or InDesign CS2, nothing changes: You can continue to use Metrowerks Codewarrior to build and compile your plug-ins. However, once Adobe migrates future development to Apple Xcode, developers of Adobe compatible plug-ins and solutions will also need to transition to Xcode to continue developing and compiling their programs. Our initial investigation of our own transition suggests that this will take preparation, so we wanted to alert our developer community now to this upcoming change to give you time to plan and prepare.
from blogs.adobe.com
http://blogs.adobe.com/notesfrommnr/2005/09/adobe_plug-ins.html

Apple HAS to release their consumer machines first in order to allow the tier 1 developers to catch up with software development. The consumers of most consumer machines will use mostly Apple provided software, most of which will be OS X86 Intel native.

Until Photoshop, Dreamweaver, MS Office, Quark and even FinalCut and the like are released as Universal Binaries there's no market impetus behind purchases of pro Apple hardware. (remember the OS 9 to X 10.1 migration)

I remember 200 G3's and G4's sitting in Hachette Fillipachi's NY offices on Broadway here in Manhattan running OS9 when X was at 10.2 because of Quark.

Anyway, that's a long-winded way to say there won't be any Intel Powerbooks in 3 weeks.

Now where are the OS X on AMD hackers at?