New iBooks 'Not Technically' in ePub Format

[devilofspades]

Problem is your argument falls apart when you are comparing it with Epub2 not Epub 3.

Apple iBook format pulls heavily from Epub 3 and from Apples history the lock out is blocking everyone but Apple products. It is not about a standard but about Apple lock in.

that's my point. if you ignore the "apple ecosystem" bias, it's a great tool for kids to learn. obviously apple's closed system approach works, or they wouldn't be the most valuable tech company in the world. i don't see microsoft, google, or any open linux company staking claim to that title. as tech nuts, yes we all like to poke and prod and fiddle. but for the basic user, especially kids who need something that isn't going to break or crash this is a good platform. the primary people that will be doing all this work will be doing on macs, for guess what...the ipad. sure apple has borrowed from many open standards and have also created many open standards. again, the argument shouldn't be about sticking to open standards, it should be about creating a fantastic product that helps students learn and excel...i mean numbers...owww wait, no i meant excel.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

that's my point. if you ignore the "apple ecosystem" bias, it's a great tool for kids to learn. obviously apple's closed system approach works, or they wouldn't be the most valuable tech company in the world. i don't see microsoft, google, or any open linux company staking claim to that title. as tech nuts, yes we all like to poke and prod and fiddle. but for the basic user, especially kids who need something that isn't going to break or crash this is a good platform. the primary people that will be doing all this work will be doing on macs, for guess what...the ipad. sure apple has borrowed from many open standards and have also created many open standards. again, the argument shouldn't be about sticking to open standards, it should be about creating a fantastic product that helps students learn and excel...i mean numbers...owww wait, no i meant excel.

The BS software lock out is why this is DOA. All Apple has done is poke 2 gaints that offer by far better services (and products) in ebooks that will kill iBook off.
B&N and Amazon are both going to offer something like ibooks in people generated their own ebooks. Difference is Amazon and B&N win because they offer something that works across all platforms and not limited into just iBook. The exclusivity thing is why it is DOA. If Apple did not have that lock in then it would be fine.

Also fully expect someone to make software that takes iBook format and just converts it over to ePub3.

 

[devilofspades]

The BS software lock out is why this is DOA. All Apple has done is poke 2 gaints that offer by far better services (and products) in ebooks that will kill iBook off.
B&N and Amazon are both going to offer something like ibooks in people generated their own ebooks. Difference is Amazon and B&N win because they offer something that works across all platforms and not limited into just iBook. The exclusivity thing is why it is DOA. If Apple did not have that lock in then it would be fine.

Also fully expect someone to make software that takes iBook format and just converts it over to ePub3.

really? and what fraction of the market share is the kindle / nook? to say apple is going to be doa is a lark. the ipod was exclusive to mac only when it first came out and it still dominated the market. the ipad is proving the same. people don't want open, they want something that works. techies want open so they can tinker. what's the advantage to making it open anyway? the platform of choice will remain the ipad. who cares if it works on the little kindle fire if the majority will have...wait, already have an ipad?

i see your point, i just think people need to look at the bigger picture.

 

[thewitt]

Call me not surprised Apple does a standard propriety format and yet again in doing so hurts a good standard from really getting off the ground.

Yet another blanket statement made in ignorance.

The ePub 3 spec is still lacking many features, and Apple is a major player in the spec working groups. ePub 4 which will take another 18 months, gets closer to a full standard, while ePub 5 on the roadmap will finally have everything in the current design drafts.

I expect everything Apple has done in iBooks 2.0 will eventually either be part of the standard or converted to the standard.

ePub 3 however is not yet complete enough to do what iBooks 2.0 does.

 

[irnchriz]

As a person who has an "ebook" that's been around for about 10 years I looked at this with interest. But there are numerous issues that make this a "no go":

• If you want to sell your book, it must be sold on the Apple iBook store
• Books sold on the Apple Bookstore can only be read in iOS devices (not Macs, PCs, Kindles, or other tablets).

Sure it's got animations, but it's an undesirable lock-in.

On the customer end, licensing terms are unsuitable for K-12 unless the costs of ebooks drop to reflect their actual savings (or they can be resold) they aren't really good for college level either. This doesn't solve the problem of the textbook publisher oligopoly. We really needed Steve Jobs "free K-12 books if you buy our iPods" model to make the lock-in acceptable.

The iAuthor application along with Apples extended ePub format is for their devices. Apple don't make the iAuthor software to work with other eReaders or for selling ePubs on other platforms.

If you wished to make ePubs for Apple devices through iBooks then Apple have made it incredibly easy for you to do so. If you don't want to publish on iBooks then you can go and buy/use 3rd party applications to distribute your works through other outlets.

The book cost no longer needs to be high if there is no longer a 2nd hand market for books. Think about it, you publish a book and sell it for $100. That book is used by the student and then sold on. Now, that book may pass through say 10 students and you only made $100. Now look at a digital book. It sells for $14.99 and that student can't sell it on 2nd hand. A further 10 students need the book, they all buy it for $14.99. That doesn't count lending either, the original print may have been passed around numerous students in its life and again you get nothing from this.

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Seems pretty clear to me -- whatever you "Export" or "Publish" using iBooks Author can be sold only through the store. Any lack of clarity is wishful thinking.

i have read your posts and am struggling to see the point that you are making.

Apple announced the new iBooks 2 application for iPad.
Apple demonstrated the new rich publishing for textbooks on iPad through iBooks 2
Apple demonstrated iAuthor for Mac which lets you make these books for the iPad to publish through iBooks.

Its and Apple format, for an Apple device, made on an Apple device and eventually sold/distributed through the Apple store.

And you are confused how? You feel aggrieved how? Maybe you should shout and complain at the other devices and market portals for their lack of innovation or ease of use. Apple make for Apple, you are stupid to think otherwise or expect them to provide you with tools for any other outlet.

 

[Oletros]

That's right, and Apple isn't in the business of providing you with well-designed free software that you can then use to profit elsewhere. That's kinda the point of a business.

Like XCode and OS X applications?

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the ipod was exclusive to mac only when it first came out and it still dominated the market.

And you're proving his point because iPod sales didn't started to grow until it was Windows compatible

 

[talmy]

And you are confused how? You feel aggrieved how? Maybe you should shout and complain at the other devices and market portals for their lack of innovation or ease of use. Apple make for Apple, you are stupid to think otherwise or expect them to provide you with tools for any other outlet.

I'm not confused. I understand completely what they are doing. I understand the license. The second quote of mine was in reply to another poster who seemed to be trying to find a way to "weasel out" of the license restriction.

Apple could have sold iBooks Author instead of giving it away, and then allowed selling through other channels. They could have followed the EPUB standard instead of "embrace and extend." For me, this lock-in is unacceptable. I expect it will be for others as well. 100% of my students have Windows or Apple computers. I can't say for sure that any of them have iPads. I wouldn't consider any solution that would force them to shell out an additional $500.

Apple sells tools that can be used to target other devices than an iPad (Pages, iMovie, Garageband, iPhoto, their "Pro" apps). They could have done the same here.

The book cost no longer needs to be high if there is no longer a 2nd hand market for books. Think about it, you publish a book and sell it for $100. That book is used by the student and then sold on. Now, that book may pass through say 10 students and you only made $100. Now look at a digital book. It sells for $14.99 and that student can't sell it on 2nd hand. A further 10 students need the book, they all buy it for $14.99. That doesn't count lending either, the original print may have been passed around numerous students in its life and again you get nothing from this.

This is a pet peeve of mine. The textbook publishing business is an oligopoly. Just a few publishers have a lock on the industry (especially K-12 where choices are made by committee rather than individual university professors) and vastly overcharge for their product as a result. The authors make little. The book costs don't need to be high in the first place. I replaced a $120 (college) textbook ten years ago with one that I wrote. Campus bookstores that sell my book price it around $30. They make a profit, the printer makes a profit, and I make a profit far larger than I would if the book were published by a major house. For a second course I teach, I switched from a $150 textbook to one that is about $40 and hardcovered, published by a top-tier university that apparently has a much more benign cost structure.

 

[gnasher729]

Seems pretty clear to me -- whatever you "Export" or "Publish" using iBooks Author can be sold only through the store. Any lack of clarity is wishful thinking.

Which means the text, artwork, models that you pasted into iBooks Author are all yours and free for you to use any way you want. Same for text that you edited inside the app.

 

[talmy]

Which means the text, artwork, models that you pasted into iBooks Author are all yours and free for you to use any way you want. Same for text that you edited inside the app.

Exactly. Apple is making no claims of ownership of the content. The only thing they are doing is restricting sales (other than "free") of anything produced via "Export" or "Publish" to the iBook Store.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Exactly. Apple is making no claims of ownership of the content. The only thing they are doing is restricting sales (other than "free") of anything produced via "Export" or "Publish" to the iBook Store.

But the question comes would you as a teacher require your students to own an iPad or would you rather go kindle or nook format witch works across all the major platforms and on desktop OS's?
They already offer services that let you publish on your own and we can safety assume they are going to kick something out like the iBooks publishing program in the near future.

 

[yt75]

Model and new role

ebook, epub, ibook, pdf, text, apps, websites !
What is needed in this "affair" is a new role more than anything else.
This new role could be described as "personal contracts/licences holder" "account managers for personal contract/licences and login/passwds or certificates"(no contents in there just references), something like that, several of them of course, and ability to move all your "assets" or "belongings" from one to the other, so that a trust relationship can exist regarding the privacy of these data (and privacy of these data also under strong legal constraints for these organisations).
Then you can have an environment with a clear role separation between these organisations on one side, and editors, on line shops, on line content holders and difusers on the other.
Which then could allow a user to buy an ebook, apps, websites (access to) "for life"(or with some timing guarenteed in a strict legal point of view, but "for life" in spirit), possibility of upgrade if new edition and you feel like it, and that's it.
Enough with these "private bookshelves"(msuic, video, sito shelves) linked to some device maker, on line shops, "social network", or some other giant !
A bit more developed below :
http://iiscn.wordpress.com/2011/05/15/concepts-economie-numerique-draft/
(and in the "copies_licences" text (2007) linked in the post)

And almost EVERYTHING already there really

 

[talmy]

But the question comes would you as a teacher require your students to own an iPad or would you rather go kindle or nook format witch works across all the major platforms and on desktop OS's?
They already offer services that let you publish on your own and we can safety assume they are going to kick something out like the iBooks publishing program in the near future.

I would not use this because I can't justify requiring an iPad, especially when every student already has a computer (which will view my current textbook).

 

[observer]

only .ibook format is restricted to iBookstore

It seems a lot of people are misunderstanding. The iBook Author software can export in either the .ibook format or .pdf. The .ibook format can only be **sold** through Apple. It can be given away either through Apple or directly on your own website or email or whatever. The content remains yours, not Apple's, whichever way you distribute it. And a pdf can be distributed any way you want.

 

[gkarris]

I would not use this because I can't justify requiring an iPad, especially when every student already has a computer (which will view my current textbook).

Or Apple can do the same thing they did when iTunes was Mac only...



BTW - the iPad is "Not Technically" a Tablet Computer, it's an mobile electronic media Pad...

 

[talmy]

It seems a lot of people are misunderstanding. The iBook Author software can export in either the .ibook format or .pdf. The .ibook format can only be **sold** through Apple. It can be given away either through Apple or directly on your own website or email or whatever. The content remains yours, not Apple's, whichever way you distribute it. And a pdf can be distributed any way you want.

Nope, it doesn't matter what format you use. To quite the license agreement:

If you charge a fee for any book or other work you generate using this software (a “Work”), you may only sell or distribute such Work through Apple (e.g., through the iBookstore) and such distribution will be subject to a separate agreement with Apple.