New iMac G5 Announced

[ZildjianKX]

Pound out your stream of consciousness on the 108-key Apple Keyboard

Kind of a weird quote from Apple's website... I guess that means it's not a pro keyboard.

Things to complain about:
Crappy video card
No DVI out
Bluetooth option is only build to order
All models come with only 256 MB of RAM (according to Apple's site)
Airport card not included

Well, not to mention only video mirroring and no gigabit ethernet, but that was expected... the same with the FSB.

 

[takao]

To the handful who say this has been done before. A link, please? Because it really hasn't. Find me an all-in-one that's even remotely so thin and elegant.

got sold november 2002 with a P4 and 512 ram and wireless keyboard+mouse etc. included

in 2000 (!) they had a pentium 3 version who looked similiar
and i'm pretty sure that they were others before

sure no widescreen and far from being elegant but it has been on the market before and it sold lousy...

i like the imac but it's not something breath-taking new ...(if i had the money i would buy one)

edit: google for Gericom Frontman Force and for Gericom Frontman for the 2000 version

 

[amberashby]

I think I preferred the fake picture that had been circulating around the net. I'm going to miss the arm. Maybe I can snag a deeply discounted old model.

 

[-hh]

Regarding headless mac. The price of the 20" G5 iMac is $1900 the price of the 20" display is $1300. So does that mean that Apple could sell a headless mac (G5 1.8 and all the rest of the specs of these new iMacs) for $600. {?}

No, it does not mean this.

Generally speaking, as the total hardware sales price goes up, a business may be willing to accept a lower total profit margin.

Hypothetically, let's say that Apple's 20" display has 30% profit ($1000 + $300), whereas the $1900 iMac has a 20% profit ($1585 + $315).

This means that the financials for a "headless" at the "$600 difference" means that its breakdown (keep in mind this is a KISS SWAG) is $585 + $15, which is less than a 3% profit.

If we apply a 25% profit margin to a $585 product, its going to run around $750, to which the consumer adds $50 for a 17" CRT, and the 'Reward' for Apple is that they make a $150 profit instead of a $300 one.

Sure, you'll probably get some more customers, but will you get twice as many? That's the real question and apparently Apple doesn't think so.

-hh

 

[Flying Llama]

How does it keep cool? I the g5, the lcd and all the other stuff are keeping warm like penguins! There aren't any holes? (Which is good)

 

[Gatorman]

WOWEE!

Would you get a load of that thing! It looks like something straight out of a sci-fi movie. That absolutely blows my mind away! I can't wait to see one of these things in person! I thought they couldn't improve on the design of the last iMac...sure enough Apple does it again!

$5 says we see the Powerbook G5 at the expo in Jan....then it'll be my turn to jump on the G5 bandwagon!!

How do they cool that thing, btw, with such little space???? Guess I'll have to watch the keynote and see for myself.

 

[AirUncleP]

Does the new iMac have a place in public schools?

I think not.

In computer labs ( middle school and up ) students need easy access to usb and firewire ports. I don't see that on these machines. I'm not going to let students move the display just to get to the ports. Some will say just keep a cable plugged in all the time or attach a usb hub. Remeber I said PUBLIC schools.

eMac are perfect for schools. A G5 eMac would be great, but a cheaper G4 eMac would be even better.

 

[slughead]

* Ability to play Doom III mentioned on Apple's page

LOL! not to mock you or anything, but my brother had a 5200 ultra in his PC.

Doom3? how about doom 2? :X

We installed Doom III, got it up and running, put the graphics settings on something modest like 800x600.. WRONG. We got about 10FPS.

So we cut the res down to 640, turned off all the AA, and of course all the neato effects.. but it ran at 30 FPS!

It looked very much like doom2 at that point, at which time I soled him my FX5950 so I could buy a 6800.

Don't get me wrong.. the 5200 is a great card. My brother got it because it was $55 new! Hey big spender!

It runs games like UT2004.. at 800x600. Realize this thing was a MID-RANGE card a year and a half ago. Now it's not only the bottom of the line, it's the bottom of the BARREL!

This is one reason why I will never buy this new iMac.

 

[savar]

That is SO goregous! I am really glad the iMac is not aluminum and boxy like the new displays. It really keeps the look and feel of the "i" lineup, and makes me think iPod.

I wonder if the foot will be detatchable? It looks like there is a slot on the back for wall mounting (long thin slot on the upper back side).!

Yes it is, and yes it does.

It has a VESA compliant mount.

http://www.apple.com/imac/graphics.html

 

[displaced]

OS X is a 32-bit operating system. Nobody has any 64-bit software.

When 64-bit does arrive, the iMac's limit of 2 DIMMs (2 GiB) will make it next to impossible to add enough memory to actually take advantage of 64-bit.

A 2 GiB machine is a 32-bit machine, regardless of the hype.

Putting a 64-bit operating system in a 2 GiB machine is like putting dual exhausts on a lawn mower - in theory it sounds good but in practice it's a waste....

Err. No.

Sure, the address space available to a 64-bit CPU allows for insane amounts of RAM. But RAM quantity has absolutely no bearing on the processor's logic being able to handle 64-bit precision numbers at speed. Apps that will gain most advantage from being 64-bit aware will also benefit from acres of RAM, but then the same applies for work-horse apps in a 32-bit environment also.

Also, Panther does have 64-bit aware math libraries, IIRC. Both Photoshop and Final Cut Pro HD take much advantage of the 64-bit CPU -- irrespective of how much RAM is available.

 

[displaced]

I've sold these kind of designs (pc in monitor) already many years ago with a pc, and it wansn't a huge succes. I hop Apple will do better.

Apple have been producing 'PC-in-Monitor' machines since 1984. I'd say they've done all right out of it

[edit] well, there was probably a gap during the 'dark years'... where's my copy of Mactracker when I need it? [/edit]

 

[slughead]

got sold november 2002 with a P4 and 512 ram and wireless keyboard+mouse etc. included

in 2000 (!) they had a pentium 3 version who looked similiar
and i'm pretty sure that they were others before

sure no widescreen and far from being elegant but it has been on the market before and it sold lousy...

i like the imac but it's not something breath-taking new ...(if i had the money i would buy one)

edit: google for Gericom Frontman Force and for Gericom Frontman for the 2000 version

LOL good show!

I specifically remember macrumors people saying of this design some very nasty things, now it's "spaceage" and "OMG"

I could see owning one IF and only IF they included a wall-mount. However, it looks like at least the power cord would make that a pain.

I also like how (I think?) it uses full size ram.

EDIT: NM the mount is VESA compliant.

 

[Little Endian]

The 20" imac sure makes the Apple 20" Cinema Display overpriced. $1899 for a 20" G5 imac or $1299 for just a 20" Cinema Display. Hmmm.... The Cinema displays should be cheaper now, hopefully they drop the Price by MWSF Jan. 2005 $999 to at most $1199 for the 20" Cinema Display sounds better in light of the new imacs.

Another thought is maybe the 20" Cinema Display is'nt overpriced at all and Apple is selling the G5 imac at a very low profit margin now. Sort of like a loss leader a hook and bait product. The nice prices of the new imacs will hook buyers who will in less than two years realize that the 64MB unupgradeble GeforceFX5200 is woefully inadequate or they hit the 2GB ceiling in RAM requirements or they get pissed off at waiting for the Poky 4X DVD Burner. This decreases the time between upgrade intervals for a Mac User resulting in one having to upgrade sooner which equals more money in the Long run.

Those who want to argue that Geforce FX 5200 64MB is'nt that bad should be aware that this card is only marginally faster the Geforce 4MX 440 64MB of three years ago. And with todays Games and 3D rendering software the 5200 barely holds it's ground. What will things be like 1-2 years from now when Tiger is released and when even things like Simple Open GL Screen Savers leave your imac Gasping for air. Many Games today require at least 64MB of VRAM and certain Pro Apps like Apple's Motion allready require or at least reccomend at least 128MB Video Cards. And yeah sure Doom III will run on the new imac but only in low resolution as to run Doom III in High Quality at native 1440*900 or 1650*1050 would require at least a 256MB card.

The 2GB RAM may sound nice however there are only two slots and in theory it is only cost effective to Upgrade to 1GB via two 512MB sticks as 1GB sticks still Cost over $200 a stick, so one would have to spend $400-$500 to max the Ram to 2GB. 2GB is good for today but really is'nt all that much.

A 4X DVD Burner is also horrific considering 16X DVD Burners are beggining to ship and Dual Layer DVD burning is becoming an accepted norm. Sure one could Upgrade the Burner but that may not even be possible or at least not easy also one if they could upgrade would have to spend twice as much because the Machine uses a Laptop size DVD Burner. also using an external Burner Defeats the all in one concept no?

The new G5 imacs have a very tempting Price point however I would much rather spend twice as much on a new PowerMac system. I would be able to enjoy more Power from the Power Mac in the here and now and it would probably last me twice as long before having to upgrade the whole machine as one would with the imac, I also would have more Upgrade options with the PowerMac and at least have the option of keeping My LCD if I were to decide to get a new machine.

Before you imac lovers flame me, I myself am an imac user with my Current 17" imac G4. Really though after 4 years of owning imacs and with this being my third one in 4 years I really do have a point in that most users whether they be professional or not would be better served by a more Powerfull or at least upgradeble machine.

 

[CubaTBird]

ye

this ain't nothin new, it seems apple' is copying pc makers now....... gateway started this whole thing with the computer in the back of the monitor in late 99' early 2000... sure it was hella ugly, but still. it was a start.

 

[Dalriada]

Nice job

I say a nice 'job' done Apple for such a cool machine which will definitely attract many Win switchers with new iPods and bring more 'spotlight' on the Mac world. However for the gamers would definitely await next revision hopefully sporting a much improved graphic card or at least one which can be upgraded and extend the imac's long life(and who knows maybe a top range brushed Alu version.... )

 

[zim]

Does the new iMac have a place in public schools?

I think not.

In computer labs ( middle school and up ) students need easy access to usb and firewire ports. I don't see that on these machines. I'm not going to let students move the display just to get to the ports. Some will say just keep a cable plugged in all the time or attach a usb hub. Remeber I said PUBLIC schools.

eMac are perfect for schools. A G5 eMac would be great, but a cheaper G4 eMac would be even better.

I disagree, I think that these would be perfect for public schools. Very few students have external devices that they will need to be plugging in and most schools that have a network have some sort of server associated with that network, allowing for file transfer.

These computers would also free up much needed desk space, I have seen some schools that although have upgraded computers over the years, have yet to invest in good desks that provide enough working space.

I would also say, having spent a good majority of my days in a public university lab over the last few years, that very few students even use the CD-ROM, CD R-RW drives and even fewer bring in zip or other media. We do see a lot of iPods that is about all.. maybe a few zip drives but very few.

Oh, the keyboard has a usb port on it, problem solved.

 

[CubaTBird]

webcast?

so whats the deal with the webcast? is it going to be put up later today? i would think so

 

[jacobj]

BooHoo... Poor Baby, go cry in your cheerios...

Boohoo the poor sucker that pays money for this because they are so devoted to Apple that they'll buy any rubbish that is handed to them.

 

[peccles]

I like it alot. I wonder if they should have made a 15in one that could sell
for $999. I was suprised there isn't a FW800 in at least the 20in model.
This is a good upgrade to the iMac with still a good amount of room to grow
besides faster chips. I would expect an FSB at half clock speed, dual channel
DDR400 RAM, FW800, and a superdrive that can handle rewriteable DVDs
in future generations.

 

[jimsowden]

HOW THE F&*# is apple stock down right now? Thats impossible. Now i'm getting mad.

 

[segundo]

Have you ever seen a decent graphics card that didn't have a huge heatsink or massive fan? The top end Nvidias sometimes have an extra slot just for the fan!

It's a design consideration, not a performance consideration. They took the fastest, coolest chip they could find.

That's a great point. That's probably also why they used the same DVD-R as the Powerbooks. In this format, size and heat matter.

 

[slughead]

You tha man Little Endian!

I agree 100%.

Key points:
1. The 5200 was MID RANGE a year and a half ago*
2. The 5200 WILL NOT be acceptable for Doom3*
3. Burner is way too slow (but might be firmware upgradable)*
4. Design was stolen. Plain and simple.
5. Will not mount flush against the wall (look at the power cord and the vents).
6. Having to use 1gig sticks is VERY expensive, even with non-apple RAM.*
7. Bluetooth is not included with every model.

These are just what I see, maybe Apple can convince people to buy it. They probably will, in fact. I just wont be one of them.

* these are things that Endian pointed out

 

[Savage Henry]

Gaming ... Schmaming ....

There can't be too many people here who thought the iMac was going to break historical precedent by being introduced with a top spec gaming card, so I shall not be shedding tears of unexpected anguish.

However, my tears will be because I had set my heart on getting a new model, but my wife's iBook went squishy over the weekend and financially her work requirements are taking priority over my ego.

Maybe Xmas ... after the initial techie problems are ironed out .... or maybe next summer when Tiger is released .....

Nah ...fetch hither my credit card!!!

 

[Timelessblur]

Well I have seen people complaining about the ram being single channel. That not a much as a happering on the speed in relatity if you have 512. 256 is to little for anything.

As for the FSB the people complain dont know much about processors and FSB because in reallty the FSB is 200mhz max. For example intel 800 mhz fsb is not really 800mhz. If you go into the BIOS and look at it is it 200mhz. More than likely the real speed of the FSB is around 166mhz which is not to bad so that not a big deal.

As for the graphic card well yeah it crap. No it correct that it make crap look good. Also it is prim example as for the reason games are not really made for Macs. There no point to make games for a system that going to hurt your rep and can not use all the nice stuff you put all you work into

 

[CubaTBird]

wow

i just read some of the posts when the original ipod came out, and you guys sure weren't happy