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New iMac G5 Announced
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aswitcher said:
Yes, the eMac will be up for a significant refresh in the next 12-18 months. However, let's consider some other options for the product line-up.
Remeber that the eMac design is very similar to the original iMac (G3). As it has been noted elsewhere in this thread, the new iMac G5 resembles a skinny eMac. Now there is already much talk about how this new machine isn't quite all it could be, and not everything the mid-range pro-sumer really wants. It is also, in my opinion, a rather bland design to follow up the very elegant iMac G4. Also keep in mind that the iMac is marketed as the center of our digital life.
If Apple were to take the requests of many of it's loyalists, it would add features like upgradable graphics cards, a single PCI slot, TV tuner, and more memory slots to the iMac and put it in a compact, "headless" enclosure. So maybe, if these ideas hold true, the new iMac G5 will eventually just become the eMac, and a true, pro-sumer iMac will be introduced in late 2005 - early 2006. This is also the timeframe when the PowerMac line should be moving to G6, leaving behind many higher clocked G5s for use in such a machine.
Or am I just a dreamer?
powermac666 said:
Apple's going to have people complain regardless of which strategy they pursue, and the one that they chose here was the "Apple is too expensive" one.
What a lot of posters here probably don't realize is that changing the video from a soldered-on component to a pluggable (AGP-type) port probably is not cheap: it increases your parts count increases, as does also the assembly labor costs. Apple had to make a hard decision to make in what percentage of the iMac's customer base will really pay attention to what GPU the machine is using ... in short, if only 2% of the customers are going to pay for an upgrade, then they don't have the critical mass that justifies offering the optional feature. Its simple economics of manufacturing.
For those who still don't like this, they can be the first on their block to hack an iMac to use a different GPU, through careful surgery of their motherboards.
-hh
PS for daveg5 ... thanks for your note on the PCIx and the URL.
JerseyMike73 said:
I've gotten my crystal ball back from Karnak the Magnificent. Lesseee...
Ah, the next eMac. There it is. Its going to be surprisingly similar to what it is now, with the most important change being to a 15" LCD display. The back of the box will of course shrink, but not by as much as it did with the iMac because it won't be using laptop components so as to keep costs down. Its design looks like it will continue to be condusive to forming beehive-like workgroup clusters of 6 machines, although I can't quite see from here if they're going with a "half cylinder" back or a trapazoidal. I don't think its the latter.
-hh
Ahh,the flat screen all in one's are back
I totally dig this, and was showing it to all my office mates,who happen to be a bunch of PC'ers (I bring in my Powerbook G3 everyday in order to actually get work done). They were impressed, and some are considering the move to Mac.
But, one friend, not at work, said how Apple ripped off Gateway (the Profile 4), and they were first out the gate. "FOOLISH MORTAL!" I said, "Did they make it two-inches thick, able to tilt up and down, wireless, with a big display, and manage to cram in the biggest fastest processor at the time??? Well, did they!?".
His answer: "Well, no, but it did come with a floppy drive."
And THAT is why PC users will almost always remain PC users.
I totally dig this, and was showing it to all my office mates,who happen to be a bunch of PC'ers (I bring in my Powerbook G3 everyday in order to actually get work done). They were impressed, and some are considering the move to Mac.
But, one friend, not at work, said how Apple ripped off Gateway (the Profile 4), and they were first out the gate. "FOOLISH MORTAL!" I said, "Did they make it two-inches thick, able to tilt up and down, wireless, with a big display, and manage to cram in the biggest fastest processor at the time??? Well, did they!?".
His answer: "Well, no, but it did come with a floppy drive."
And THAT is why PC users will almost always remain PC users.
something that hasn't been discussed yet...does the iMac G5 require ram to be installed in pairs? i know you can order ram for one slot or paired (2x256, 2x512, etc.)...but let's say you order one 512 dimm...and later you want to add a 1GB dimm to the other slot. can you do that? is it the case that you can have one empty or if both are used, they must be of the same size?
Some of you guys are saying this is comparable to a PC in features/price.
I think the iMac is fairly priced for what it's competing with and the size as an important feature. Otherwise, I think you're mainly paying for form, not function, if you compare it to a www.pricewatch.com computer:
Since the 17" iMac has sales tax in 49 states (??), at 8% $1,299 is $1,402.92, so keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that both of these configurations carry a monitor with more pixels and a higher contrast ratio, measuring 20". The 20" iMac is $1,899 ($2,050.92 with 8% sales tax), so keep that in mind as well. Also note that all of these parts may be purchased without sales tax in 48-49 states.
$50 - GeForceFX U 5200 128MB
$27 - 256MB DDR 3200 RAM
$268 - P4 3.2Ghz with Mobo + 8X AGP 800MHZ FSB
$49 - soundcard with Optical I/O
$62 - SATA 80GB HD
$588 - 20" LCD, 1600x1200, 600:1 Contrast, with speakers and microphone. Aluminum enclosure.
$65.50 - NEC 8X DUAL/DOUBLE LAYER DVD BURNER DVD±R
$64 - Antec case w/350watt PSU (also antec)
======
$1,173.50
~$1,400 system:
$208 - Radeon 9800 128MB
$110 - 1,024MB DDR 3200 RAM
$268 - P4 3.2Ghz with Mobo + 8X AGP 800MHZ FSB
$49 - soundcard with Optical I/O
$62 - SATA 80GB HD
$588 - 20" LCD, 1600x1200, 600:1 Contrast, with speakers and microphone. Aluminum enclosure.
$65.50 - NEC 8X DUAL/DOUBLE LAYER DVD BURNER DVD±R
$64 - Antec case w/350watt PSU (also antec)
======
$1,414.50
The emboldened text means it is better than what's in the iMac by any measure. The display was not emboldened because some people might value a 16:9 display over the 4:3 compared here, instead of the better contrast ratio/more pixels.
[edit: I should also point out that ALL the shipping rates were included in the parts' prices (as is the case with all pricewatch numbers). In addition, you can buy the new iMac from somewhere other than the Apple Store and not have to pay sales tax.]
I think the iMac is fairly priced for what it's competing with and the size as an important feature. Otherwise, I think you're mainly paying for form, not function, if you compare it to a www.pricewatch.com computer:
Since the 17" iMac has sales tax in 49 states (??), at 8% $1,299 is $1,402.92, so keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that both of these configurations carry a monitor with more pixels and a higher contrast ratio, measuring 20". The 20" iMac is $1,899 ($2,050.92 with 8% sales tax), so keep that in mind as well. Also note that all of these parts may be purchased without sales tax in 48-49 states.
$50 - GeForceFX U 5200 128MB
$27 - 256MB DDR 3200 RAM
$268 - P4 3.2Ghz with Mobo + 8X AGP 800MHZ FSB
$49 - soundcard with Optical I/O
$62 - SATA 80GB HD
$588 - 20" LCD, 1600x1200, 600:1 Contrast, with speakers and microphone. Aluminum enclosure.
$65.50 - NEC 8X DUAL/DOUBLE LAYER DVD BURNER DVD±R
$64 - Antec case w/350watt PSU (also antec)
======
$1,173.50
~$1,400 system:
$208 - Radeon 9800 128MB
$110 - 1,024MB DDR 3200 RAM
$268 - P4 3.2Ghz with Mobo + 8X AGP 800MHZ FSB
$49 - soundcard with Optical I/O
$62 - SATA 80GB HD
$588 - 20" LCD, 1600x1200, 600:1 Contrast, with speakers and microphone. Aluminum enclosure.
$65.50 - NEC 8X DUAL/DOUBLE LAYER DVD BURNER DVD±R
$64 - Antec case w/350watt PSU (also antec)
======
$1,414.50
The emboldened text means it is better than what's in the iMac by any measure. The display was not emboldened because some people might value a 16:9 display over the 4:3 compared here, instead of the better contrast ratio/more pixels.
[edit: I should also point out that ALL the shipping rates were included in the parts' prices (as is the case with all pricewatch numbers). In addition, you can buy the new iMac from somewhere other than the Apple Store and not have to pay sales tax.]
RAM doesn't have to be paired. The evidence is that Apple offers non-paired choices when you order, e.g., you can get 256MB, 512MB, or 1GB as a single DIMM (or 1GB or 2GB as a pair of DIMMs).kugino said:
takao said:
Yea NTSC resolution is like 720*480 or something and the pixel aspect ratio is different or something...
Emac?
I think the eMac is going to be completely revamped. If it was anything like the new iMac it would be a very nice entry level model. It's hard to tell what direction Apple has in mind though, the current one is cheap and effective if not pretty.
Though, if that could be marketed with the iPod as well, you would have entire levels of kids being raised knowing that Apple makes the iPod and the cool computer they used when they were younger.
Personally, I don't see a problem with keeping the CRT, but it would not go over well I don't think. Apple ought to try to maintain it's image as being the tech leader in both hardware and software.
I find myself agreeing with the comments about the graphics card now though. It's not going to change my decision as far as purchasing one. But it seems like this is something that Apple is being stubborn about. If a good one is not included than at least give people the option to upgrade it themselves or during the purchasing process.
Given the realtively short list of Apple related complaints, the graphics card issue seems so easy to fix it should be a non issue.
Come on Mr Jobs, we the customers, are always right!
I think the eMac is going to be completely revamped. If it was anything like the new iMac it would be a very nice entry level model. It's hard to tell what direction Apple has in mind though, the current one is cheap and effective if not pretty.
Though, if that could be marketed with the iPod as well, you would have entire levels of kids being raised knowing that Apple makes the iPod and the cool computer they used when they were younger.
Personally, I don't see a problem with keeping the CRT, but it would not go over well I don't think. Apple ought to try to maintain it's image as being the tech leader in both hardware and software.
I find myself agreeing with the comments about the graphics card now though. It's not going to change my decision as far as purchasing one. But it seems like this is something that Apple is being stubborn about. If a good one is not included than at least give people the option to upgrade it themselves or during the purchasing process.
Given the realtively short list of Apple related complaints, the graphics card issue seems so easy to fix it should be a non issue.
Come on Mr Jobs, we the customers, are always right!
bretm said:
XP pro: http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/search/search__cat_id--307,prod_id--6260970.html
Unlike Apple, MS doesn't maintain strict MSRPs
Also, I think MS could be more user friendly for beginning users.
Whenever I'm starting someone out from an old DOS or windows 95 box (usually older people), I always bring in a borrowed PC and Mac laptop to show them what they're getting into. For those people, they're usually not going to be using the iLife apps or that type of functionality.
I show them how to open the web browser, how to check their e-mail, stuff like that. They often find MS easier.. no menus at the top, all the functionality they need is in their right mouse click, when things install they put icons on the desktop/start menu, and MS hides just about everything they could use to screw up their computer, so once I get it set up, I don't have to worry about them screwing it up.
If it were a younger person, I would recommend mac immediately. People like my brother who've just used DOS and Windows have problems even with things like directory structures and how their OS works because MS puts 1/3 the functionality up front and buries 2/3 of it in really horrible ways. They can't diagnose problems or notice when something's going wrong because their OS is all patched-up piles of crap. I end up having to reinstall windows for my bro and optimizing his system for him, and he's been using computers longer than I have!
Although that could just be because while he was playing games on his PC, I was learning how to use photoshop and resedit because I was so bored.
JerseyMike73 said:
Thats a very interesting vision.
For sure the next gen of iMac will need to think hard about having a digital TV tuner in them. I am hoping elgato and others keep improving their mac interface and prices to make this even easier, but ultimately it should be in the box or be a highly cool Apple accessory that intergrates well with the rest of the range.
Software/Hardware
This whole PC specs vs Mac specs misses the point. The benefit of the Mac is the software-hardware union. Windows + Dell, doesn't compare to the experience of OSX + Mac. Specs aren't the only things that indicate how quickly a given task can be completed.
Take the iPod: there are smaller, cheaper, larger capacity, MP3 players out there that double or triple the battery life of the iPod. But there are none that offer such a seamless integration between computer and player, nor that have the easy user interface, or the style.
Comparing that Gateway monstrosity to the new iMac is like saying that the Porsche has nothing over a Toyota as they share the quality of being four wheeled people movers.
And another thing, its very hard to make judgements on the design of the new iMac from photos. When the new cinema displays appeared I was pretty dissapointed; seeing them in person is quite a different matter, they are truly beautiful. The reports of those who have seen the iMac at expo suggest the same.
I actually thought the old iMac was fairly ordinary. Just couldn't reconcile myself to the dome. Glad its gone. I've spent a lot of time in Apple Centres and all the devotees were huddled around the powerbooks or the new cinema displays. The iMac sat alone. Lets hope that doesn't happen to this latest incarnation.
The GPU is disappointing. Not for me, or the majority of people who will use an iMac. For my purposes it is just fine. But it seems a bad business decision to alienate a sizable grouping of potential customers, when 1 BTO option allowing an upgrade would have brought them into the fold. Still, I'm sure when Tiger appears that the GPU in the iMac will be upgraded as well.
Just my thoughts
This whole PC specs vs Mac specs misses the point. The benefit of the Mac is the software-hardware union. Windows + Dell, doesn't compare to the experience of OSX + Mac. Specs aren't the only things that indicate how quickly a given task can be completed.
Take the iPod: there are smaller, cheaper, larger capacity, MP3 players out there that double or triple the battery life of the iPod. But there are none that offer such a seamless integration between computer and player, nor that have the easy user interface, or the style.
Comparing that Gateway monstrosity to the new iMac is like saying that the Porsche has nothing over a Toyota as they share the quality of being four wheeled people movers.
And another thing, its very hard to make judgements on the design of the new iMac from photos. When the new cinema displays appeared I was pretty dissapointed; seeing them in person is quite a different matter, they are truly beautiful. The reports of those who have seen the iMac at expo suggest the same.
I actually thought the old iMac was fairly ordinary. Just couldn't reconcile myself to the dome. Glad its gone. I've spent a lot of time in Apple Centres and all the devotees were huddled around the powerbooks or the new cinema displays. The iMac sat alone. Lets hope that doesn't happen to this latest incarnation.
The GPU is disappointing. Not for me, or the majority of people who will use an iMac. For my purposes it is just fine. But it seems a bad business decision to alienate a sizable grouping of potential customers, when 1 BTO option allowing an upgrade would have brought them into the fold. Still, I'm sure when Tiger appears that the GPU in the iMac will be upgraded as well.
Just my thoughts
mjpmac said:
i think you're right about the user experience...osx mated with the hardware and all the ilife stuff...very good stuff indeed. i'm willing to pay a bit more for a better user experience given comparable specs on the other stuff. but then again, i don't think i'm in a majority here...a lot of people only look at the bottom line or sheer performance specs...or whatever gives them the most options/choices.
but that's fine w/me...i don't want a huge marketshare (not that a little increase wouldn't be welcomed)...i don't want everyone to start using a mac...apple shouldn't alienate its current user-base, but so what if they're not appealing to everyone out there?
iMac seems highly user replaceble
On AppleIndider there is an article (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=638) explaining how highly replacable virtually all the parts are - even the CPU/GPU combo - which adds even more great value I think.
As to my earlier questions regarding noise levels and display response time, it seems that this new iMac will be very quit, at a 25 dB level. Seems very good. There is still no answer to what the response time of the display is, but indications seem to be that it is the 20" display from the 'old' iMac line, so not 16 ms. Little disappointing, but maybe not that bad?
1. Has anybody with an 'old' 20" iMac ever watched movies (DVD) on it? What is your experience? No ghosting or such, but rather enjoyable watching? (I hope....)
2. Are there noticable differences between 'wired' keyboards and mice versus Bluetooth ones? I often play online chess, in which when in time trouble it is highly undesirable to have delays between mouse and mac.
Thanks again for your help.
On AppleIndider there is an article (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=638) explaining how highly replacable virtually all the parts are - even the CPU/GPU combo - which adds even more great value I think.
As to my earlier questions regarding noise levels and display response time, it seems that this new iMac will be very quit, at a 25 dB level. Seems very good. There is still no answer to what the response time of the display is, but indications seem to be that it is the 20" display from the 'old' iMac line, so not 16 ms. Little disappointing, but maybe not that bad?
1. Has anybody with an 'old' 20" iMac ever watched movies (DVD) on it? What is your experience? No ghosting or such, but rather enjoyable watching? (I hope....)
2. Are there noticable differences between 'wired' keyboards and mice versus Bluetooth ones? I often play online chess, in which when in time trouble it is highly undesirable to have delays between mouse and mac.
Thanks again for your help.
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