New iMac In September

[dr.Zoidberg]

bottom line

Two things here don't make any sense to me:

1. According to the news stores, Apple has "delayed" releasing a product they hadn't even announced. How is this possible?

2. Apparently Apple sold through their inventory of G4 iMacs sooner than they anticipated. How will this have a negative impact on their bottom line?

you are correct that selling your stock faster than expected wont "hurt" the bottom line in theory, but i'm assuming Apple uses some sort of "just in time" process where their stock is only a few days/weeks worth, and because there will be 2+ months where they wont have any product to sell they will be hurting their overall projected sales...that is how not having enough stock can hurt the bottom line.....but what REALLY scares me is that they must not have any clue what they are going to announce, cause there is no way they would withhold something that could be generating A) Hype, B) pre-orders.....paper releases are not unusual for this company. I'm sure it has all been said before on this GIGANTIC thread so far, but something trully awful happened and i cant wait to hear the story.....Also, if their stock value keeps falling i think we may see some expedited releases of the new iPods because they cant keep bleeding green, they will have two choices, paper release new iMac, or release something else.......ok, third possibility....HUGE sale(yeah, ok, never gonna happen)

 

[CholEoptera36]

And technically, the G5 isn't a desktop processor. It's light server/workstation CPU like the Opteron and Xenon. I have to say that Apple ade a big mistake staying with the PowerPC. They should have moved to X86 using AMD. The AMD64 line is just as fast and powerful as the G5, already has a low power mobile variant, and has off the shielf chipsets available, and the chips are available retail. Apple would be in a much better position if it had hardware compatibility with PCs. You may not start the inevitable flaming of this post.

wow someone that agree's with me that Apple should lean toward AMD! It's rare cause like Apple, AMD is an underdog to Intel in the PC world but still has better products. I do agree too that the G5 shouldn't have been in the desktop catagory, it leads on a lot of confusion to some people about what the computer is meant for. I do think AMD chips would make a better chip in Powerbooks, iBooks, and iMacs then the IBM chips though

 

[Savage Henry]

I think I have to throw my weight into the non-G5 iMac camp.

Folks, expect little more than a rammed up mother board, graced with a G4 squeezing out a slight ghz improvement, all presented with a better graphics card .... that and a free replica of an old London bus (scale 1:1).

 

[IJ Reilly]

1) It was suppose to be ready for an annoncment at WWDC but wasn't. Opps.

According to whom? Nobody seriously expected Apple to announce a consumer product at WWDC, if only because they never have before.

 

[IJ Reilly]

you are correct that selling your stock faster than expected wont "hurt" the bottom line in theory, but i'm assuming Apple uses some sort of "just in time" process where their stock is only a few days/weeks worth, and because there will be 2+ months where they wont have any product to sell they will be hurting their overall projected sales...that is how not having enough stock can hurt the bottom line.....but what REALLY scares me is that they must not have any clue what they are going to announce, cause there is no way they would withhold something that could be generating A) Hype, B) pre-orders.....paper releases are not unusual for this company. I'm sure it has all been said before on this GIGANTIC thread so far, but something trully awful happened and i cant wait to hear the story.....Also, if their stock value keeps falling i think we may see some expedited releases of the new iPods because they cant keep bleeding green, they will have two choices, paper release new iMac, or release something else.......ok, third possibility....HUGE sale(yeah, ok, never gonna happen)

It doesn't have to be "truly awful," it could be as simple as not having G5s available in sufficient quantity, which would make sense given the recent history of IBM's fabrication issues. Why it happened on them so suddenly is the question I've got in my mind. They're confident enough to say September for announcement and release of the new iMac, but they'd apparently shut down the assembly lines for the current model. I can't make any sense of this, no matter what scenario is suggested to explain it.

 

[MikeLaRiviere]

The iMac is for the Masses

No the strategy was use ground breaking industrial design to provide a mid-range computer. The user the iMac is aimed at isn't the average home user. Thats what the eMac is for, I should know I've advised enough people to get eMacs. The iMac is aimed at people like ME. People who have outgrown basic computer usage and even the intro multimedia stuff and are interested in doing more powerful work. Stuff like basic photoshop, web design, programming, digital media (beyond iMovie/iPhoto). A single G5 proccessor would dramatically help with that kind of stuff, and is exactly what mid-range users want. We are the users Apple targets with the iMac, those who can't quite justify the expense of a PowerMac but have outgrown the eMac.

The iMac isn't supposed to be the mass market machine, that is now the eMac. The iMac USED to be the mass market machine but not anymore. The eMac is the lower priced G4 machine you are talking about.

Contrary to Krizoitz's argument, the iMac is, indeed, aimed at the average consumer who can afford such a computer. The iMac was not designed for those who are into web design, heavy photoshop usage, and programming on the professional level. Rather, the iMac is capable of such use. By this statement I mean that Apple has designed a computer that is simple enough (i.e., all-in-one design, basic OS) for the beginner-level computer consumer, but powerful enough for intermediate-to-advanced level consumers. The computer is suitable for use by professionals, but it is not the computer of choice for these users as it is very cost-inefficient. I work in the IT and web design department of an organization, and none of the Apples we use are iMacs, only PowerMacs and PowerBooks.

The fact that the LCD monitor is connected to the computer is what makes it implausible for use by professionals. It is, however, very well suited to the beginner consumer as well as the consumer who is trying to engage in some "pro" (i.e., more advanced) activity. People should realize, though, that they don't need marginally faster and always new machines for engaging in personal or enthusiast work. If these people are professionals, I assume they are at the mercy of their company's budget.

The eMac is a fine Apple budget computer. The iMac is a good midrange computer, best suited to consumers, but powerful enough for anyone who is not engaged in professional scientific research, engineeering, or digital video editing. If one does not fall under any of the three aforementioned categories, then the entire Apple line of computers is an option.

Mike LaRiviere

 

[CholEoptera36]

Are you kidding? Check out http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/

Granted it's Apple's own tests, but they do show a HUGE difference between G5's and Athlon-64. If you are able to find competing scores that show a reversal between a dual-G5 and AMD-64, post it to this list so we can actually use some info rather than unsubstantiated claims.

The Athlon64 may mature into a better chip, but as of now, it is underpowered for a 64-bit chip.

Interesting "unsubstantiated claims":

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112749,pg,8,00.asp

1)I'm not gloating in this review, I personally think it's outdated but still shows more then enough support for AMD's supporter claims.

2)Don't like Alienware cause they're too pricy, you can get the same stuff in those computers for usually a fraction of that cost and it should perform the same.

3)FX-51 isn't as fast as FX-53, and still look at all the blows the FX-51 delivers to all it's competition in that bench.

4)Already stated benchmarks aren't amazing or anything... But if "Steve O'" can claim G5 is the fastest comp in the world on Apple's own Veritest benchmark, then nobody should ignore indipendent benchmarks that go the other way.

5)I'd like someone to PLEEEASE post a bench other than an **Apple bench** going the other way to this one. (shouldn't put too much trust in a company's own tests to support their own product, no matter who they are). I haven't ever found any, perhaps I'm not looking in the right places. All I find are AMD winner benchmarks... or maybe they do have a better chip.

6)AMD is cheaper than IBM

7)AMD has better CPU-memory technology than IBM, get more use out of your memory with those chips

8)Don't wanna post ten thousand links, not saying I couldn't find you more bench's though. You're all just as capable as I am at finding these things, but if you wanna have fun tearing that bench apart have fun with it like I did

9)I personally don't like the "Word" tests, I ignored those.

As quoted in the review:
***Tests on PCs performed by the PC World Test Center; tests on Apple systems performed by the Macworld Test Center.***

Make sure you don't miss looking up who those companies are and what they do. And notice the time scores, the highlighted scores are in bold for best performance in the catagories.

I don't wanna stay on the CPU thing too long, but here's your support for an "unsubstantiated" claim. Don't tear me apart, I didn't make this review I just found it like many out there that show similar scores. (very similar)

 

[HyperX]

According to whom? Nobody seriously expected Apple to announce a consumer product at WWDC, if only because they never have before.

Let's play connect the DOTS logic..

Apple is out of stock how many days after the WWDC keynotes? We know there was SERIOUS buzz created before WWDC (not many times do you get Financial district saying they expect a release). It's a LONG overdue re-fresh. The keynotes were fluffed and felt lacking.

I mean so many reasons.. that it obvious they wanted to but before the event had to give up on that idea.

 

[MikeLaRiviere]

Interesting Benchmarks

Interesting benchmarks, CholEoptera36, but realize that a) the Opteron isn't a PC processor and b) the systems aren't configured similarly. For a fair test, we'd need to see the same amount and spec RAM, hard drive, graphics card and VRAM, and RAID (or not) setup. Only then could we see a fair benchmark test. If I run a 512 MB 2.4 GHz P4, GeForce4 5200 against someone's 1 GB 2.4 GHz P4, GeForceFX5950, I think the winner would be obvious. Processor speed is not the only consideration. If someone can find a fair benchmark test, please post the link.

Mike LaRiviere

 

[CholEoptera36]

Interesting benchmarks, CholEoptera36, but realize that a) the Opteron isn't a PC processor and b) the systems aren't configured similarly. For a fair test, we'd need to see the same amount and spec RAM, hard drive, graphics card and VRAM, and RAID (or not) setup. Only then could we see a fair benchmark test. If I run a 512 MB 2.4 GHz P4, GeForce4 5200 against someone's 1 GB 2.4 GHz P4, GeForceFX5950, I think the winner would be obvious. Processor speed is not the only consideration. If someone can find a fair benchmark test, please post the link.

Mike LaRiviere
mikelariviere@mac.com

I wouldn't call the benchmark any more unfair than Apple's benchmark, and FX-51 isn't Opteron, who told you that? I'm looking up some more benchmarks if you want them.

And I know CPU speed isn't the only consideration, like I said I'm not crazy bout benchmarks but I figured I'd atleast post a little proof for claims.

 

[MikeLaRiviere]

Wasn't Referring to That

I didn't mean to imply that the FX-51 was the Opteron. The system in the test that scored so highly yet was comparably equipped to the Macs was the Opteron system... and the Opteron is not a PC chip.

Mike LaRiviere

 

[3.1416]

Nobody seriously expected Apple to announce a consumer product at WWDC, if only because they never have before.

Um, iSight?

 

[tny]

isn't Apple still the first (and only) company to ship VideoConferencing standard on every computer they sell.

The video quality that was being streamed over the internet for the three way video conference (in the keynote) looks good enough for the tablet that I propose. and that was three way over the internet (a local network is even faster) (yeah, yeah, I'm sure Phil was on the local network at WWDC but not the other two) if a laptop can do it so can a tablet (tablet = simply a notebook with no hinge for the touch-screen and no keyboard---you see I'll input with my voice and on screen buttons, why else develop VoiceOver?)

If you're going to have a detachable tablet, you'd probably use a remote desktop/vnc-like interface over wifi rather than some kind of wireless video streaming. The video response would be mediocre, though, and you'd basically have to have 2 processors (one for the tablet/monitor, one for the base station). However, if you had a computer the height and length of a Powerbook 17", and about the thickness of an iBook, with the monitor turned around, complete with the slot-loading superdrive, with ports across the top, and used the bluetooth mouse and keyboard, wifi, with a touch screen and a battery, and a stand for propping it up like a monitor, you could have a "tablet pc" that was usable as a standard desktop. Move the power supply outside, and you could get away with fans that would fit in the thickness of an iBook, I think. Thus you'd have not a headless iMac, but a bodyless iMac. It would be a little more unwieldy than an iBook, and wouldn't get more than a couple of hours of battery power perhaps, so it wouldn't be a real notebook replacement; but it would be a nice cube replacement.

(Frankly, though, I think they'll go with a cube with an ADC-based monitor. Yeah, right.)

 

[CholEoptera36]

Ah my mistake Mike, but here's something interesting about the Opteron. I have already posted a link showing very close marks of Opteron and FX-53 on here if you want to use that. The two CPU's are very close, so if you get an FX-53 for a PC, it's the same as getting an Opteron for a server/workstation. Actually correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Opteron lose most tests to the FX-53? (by nanoseconds at times, more so just proves the two to be alike. More so showing the power of a 939s chip to have the power of a server chip)

 

[CholEoptera36]

Sorry don't mean to jump away from this topic since it seems like I'm making a bigger deal out of all this then it really is. I just wanted to show you guys some constructive proof from another source than Apple that perhaps there are faster chips out there then an IBM G5 CPU. This just supports how I was posting earlier that I wish Apple would make the switch from IBM to AMD, but oh well. I'm done with the posting on the benchmarks, most people on here probly hate them and are sick of seeing them in this thread anyway. But if you wanna exchange more marks with me, CholEoptera36@yahoo.com

 

[TWinbrook46636]

Apple will survive though (well Microsoft <Bill Gates> Bailed them out Last time, Maybe Dell or Gateway this time? Or even... SONY... Haha.. funny I am!)

Since when did Microsoft bail Apple out? Are you talking about the token stock purchase made years ago? That was all part of the agreement for Apple dropping the lawsuit. Apple had billions in the bank at the time and still do. Don't be silly.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Let's play connect the DOTS logic..

Apple is out of stock how many days after the WWDC keynotes? We know there was SERIOUS buzz created before WWDC (not many times do you get Financial district saying they expect a release). It's a LONG overdue re-fresh. The keynotes were fluffed and felt lacking.

I mean so many reasons.. that it obvious they wanted to but before the event had to give up on that idea.

A couple of analysts got it into their heads that a new iMac was coming, but there simply wasn't any solid evidence to back up the claim that it was imminent at the time. In fact even here at MR, these predictions were being downplayed in the week or so before WWDC. Frankly I don't give these analysts credit for knowing much; they tend to be less well-informed than we Mac junkies. Still it's possible a new iMac was due to be announced and was pulled at the last minute. I suppose we'll never actually know.

If that's the case, the reasons must have been very unexpected, like a major production problem of some kind. If that's so, I have to wonder how the heck they can be so sure it will be fixed by September. I'm not the first person to point out that this makes very little sense.

 

[Bob Knob]

Larger than expected educational purchases?

I don't claim to have "inside" info. But...

One of my partner companies specializes in some Mac only educational software and they just received larger than expected orders from four different customers, one being large enough to cover - multiple - school districts.

According to their stats non-iBook/PowerMac schools k-8(9) tend to be eMac users, high schools are almost 50/50 eMac to iMac while colleges/universities tend to be slightly more iMac.

It's possible there were a few "unplanned" large scale educational iMac sales that took a heavy toll on Apple's iMac supply. Apple has put educational sales ahead of consumer sales more than once.

Of course this is just speculation.

 

[paulsecic]

Apple admiting a new product? WTF? Is hell freezing over?

Microsoft won't have sP-2 until Sept, er January. Who knows & who cares?

 

[kangaroo]

..but what REALLY scares me is that they must not have any clue what they are going to announce...but something trully awful happened and i cant wait to hear the story...

Perspective: this is a computer production snafu--it's not infirmity, human-expiration or taxes!

By this statement I mean that Apple has designed a computer that is simple enough (i.e., all-in-one design, basic OS) for the beginner-level computer consumer, but powerful enough for intermediate-to-advanced level consumers.

The iMac has a display attached via an arm ('all-in-one') and the PM has the display attached via a cord. I don't think the way the display is connected to the computer effects the simplicity of using the unit. What I do think is 'simple' and represents, in part, the appeal of the iMac is its form factor--which is <IMHO> still the best looking all-in-one out there. Otherwise, I agree with your comments.

 

[aswitcher]

If that's the case, the reasons must have been very unexpected, like a major production problem of some kind. If that's so, I have to wonder how the heck they can be so sure it will be fixed by September. I'm not the first person to point out that this makes very little sense.

I wonder the same given the G5 problems in the powermac. Maybe they are having cooling problems (airflow, noise etc) in the iMac design which doesn't support enough fans for a decent speed G5.

Given iMac sales have been slowing is Apple saying they didn't slow as much as expected?

Weird.

 

[destroyboredom]

I find it funny how people wonder why it wasn't demoed at WWDC, but had they announced it there and said shipping in Sept. People would complain about having to wait 2-3 months.

 

[m.r.m.]

Regarding the speed of these two chips, I have to say that I've seen benchmarks that give both the upper hand.

However, having used both for long periods of time, I've got to say that the G5 KILLS the AMD64 3200+. The chips are surely comparable, but the G5 runs clean code, while the AMD spends a great portion of it's clock cycle running useless, garbled, piled on, old code.

So, the G5 absolutely spanks the AMD in responsiveness, which is my personal expectation for a new 64-bit processor. AMD's don't suck, their OS does.

according to tom's hardware guide one can expect a performance increase of up to 50% with the 64bit amd's once they're supported fully by the os; but the problem remains... the os.

 

[Doctor Q]

Three ways to look at Apple's iMac shortage:

1. They made their estimated sales target early.

2. Their projections were bad.

3. Their projections were perfect, but the new iMac line wasn't ready in time.

Apple says #3.

 

[dober2002@liber]

Go out there and buy a pc...

I called the Apple online store to ask about when the dual 2.5gig machines would ship and the guy said he didn't know anything more than what it said. Sometime in July. I called B&H and they said late July or early August. After waiting so long I'm rethinking my plan and may get a Dell dual 3.2gig machine which just had a big price reduction. Still more exprensive than the Mac but a lot faster and it's available now. Funny that, you can actually buy the stuff on the Dell online store.

More than a year after Steve Job's promise to have a dual 3gig machine and still the faster Mac computer sold today is 2gigs. Apple is pathetic.

Nobody forces you to buy a mac. Better if you don't, considering that you don't appreciate the product.