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doboy

macrumors 68040
Jul 6, 2007
3,764
2,929
I love the product, don't get me wrong, but the way the put in the screens is under par in my opinion. I ordered my wife's iPad and mine separately. My wife's had debris under the screen and had to be returned. You can see white light coming through one side if u tilt the screen on her new one. Mine has some blend out but not bad. When I look at my co workers iPad they all have bleed out in different places. These have to be built by hand or a machine was programmed to do a really **** job. We are at the point where pixels are to small to see dead ones, but now we can't glue in the screens right. This is really funny. Still my favorite computer related product I ever bought.

I thought under par was a good thing, in golf. ;) I guess you mean subpar.
I think you should change your title to "MY new iPad build quality poor..." because mine is perfect.
 

Archer1440

Suspended
Mar 10, 2012
730
302
USA
You also need to factor R&D and retooling of machinery costs. These things cost a lot of money.

I was literally talking about a Titanium shell, which is extremely strong and light but is expensive to purchase and manufacture.

People forget that this is still a $499 device, which is basically what everyone else is selling their own for.

Anyone complaining about the iPad's quality needs to get their hands on a competitors device, as they're not even close to the iPad. I know this firsthand as I sell and have used a number of them.

Your points are well made but I think maybe you keyed on my reply to an earlier post without realizing that I was simply commenting on the assertion that a Ti shell would cost $1000.00.

I know firsthand how to design both the processes and tooling for this type of item. I have been in product engineering for 21 years working for a company that is foremost in its field. We invented a specific category of consumer goods made from titanium 15 years ago and I have extensive experience in dealing with this kind of thing (though I am more involved in marketing these days- we have smart kids to do the grunt work ;)).

The tooling is trivial when capitalized for these volumes, there is no appreciable R&D involved in a fine-blanked and punched part like the Apple shell. It's 40 year old tech, even out of Ti.

Again, based on cost, it's not that big a throw. Based on value, there would be a significant price hike- but not a thousand dollars. That was my only point. A synthetic sapphire cover layer and beta Ti shell would add $400-500 to the retail price if the marketing people do their job right. 1-2% of the market would be interested.

On a consumable throwaway item like this, with a three year lifespan for 90% of users, one could argue it would be a waste. Obviously someone at Apple made that decision long ago, or they could easily offer features like that- or, like Sony did 10 years ago, offer a higher end package with ordinary guts at a 500% premium (I'm thinking of their Japan-only limited edition MD players from about 1999-2002- forgot the brand they created for that line).

Apple makes its bones on the concept that anyone with the means can buy their gear, which they present as being the best. Perhaps they have reasoned that if they were to introduce an aspirational boutique line it might reduce the cachet of their mainstream products.
 

Built

macrumors 68020
Oct 3, 2007
2,122
29
Los Angeles
It is amusing to those who are blind to quality. It took me a while to get a decent iPad 2 last year and that experience made me sit out this release even though the buy it now urge is there. $800 is a lot of money for a lot of people.

I returned my first iPad 2 the day I got it because the first thing I did was go home and check for backlight, etc. I returned immediately to the Apple Store and got an awesome replacement.

I was very pleasantly surprised at how much better the iPad 3 experience was.
 

rocknblogger

macrumors 68020
Apr 2, 2011
2,346
481
New Jersey
When you purchase a car do you tear it apart and look in every nook and cranny to make sure it's perfect? This is a $15k+ purchase

When you go to restaurants does everything you order look as perfect as the picture/advertising? These purchases add up to a lot more than an iDevice.

I am not defending anyone here, but I love how everyone expects 100% perfect out of a device that is mass produced in China. Yes, it was designed by Apple, but in the end there are people making $1/day putting them together.

If I'm buying Kia, no. If I'm buying a Ferrari, yes absolutely.

If I'm eating at McDonald's, no. If I'm eating at a five star restaurant and spending $75 per entree, your damn right it better look like the picture in the menu.

Apple is supposed to be top of the line. The products should be perfect. There are plenty of posts in all different threads around here where people claim that there iPads are perfect. So like I said before, theirs is perfect everyone else should be able to say the same thing.
 

aka777

macrumors 6502a
Mar 13, 2012
858
421
If I'm buying Kia, no. If I'm buying a Ferrari, yes absolutely.

If I'm eating at McDonald's, no. If I'm eating at a five star restaurant and spending $75 per entree, your damn right it better look like the picture in the menu.

Apple is supposed to be top of the line. The products should be perfect. There are plenty of posts in all different threads around here where people claim that there iPads are perfect. So like I said before, theirs is perfect everyone else should be able to say the same thing.

However, you are not buying a Rolls Royce.

iPad: $499
Asus Prime: $499
Galaxy Note: $450
 
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whtrbt7

macrumors 65816
Jun 8, 2011
1,015
73
Your points are well made but I think maybe you keyed on my reply to an earlier post without realizing that I was simply commenting on the assertion that a Ti shell would cost $1000.00.

I know firsthand how to design both the processes and tooling for this type of item. I have been in product engineering for 21 years working for a company that is foremost in its field. We invented a specific category of consumer goods made from titanium 15 years ago and I have extensive experience in dealing with this kind of thing (though I am more involved in marketing these days- we have smart kids to do the grunt work ;)).

The tooling is trivial when capitalized for these volumes, there is no appreciable R&D involved in a fine-blanked and punched part like the Apple shell. It's 40 year old tech, even out of Ti.

Again, based on cost, it's not that big a throw. Based on value, there would be a significant price hike- but not a thousand dollars. That was my only point. A synthetic sapphire cover layer and beta Ti shell would add $400-500 to the retail price if the marketing people do their job right. 1-2% of the market would be interested.

On a consumable throwaway item like this, with a three year lifespan for 90% of users, one could argue it would be a waste. Obviously someone at Apple made that decision long ago, or they could easily offer features like that- or, like Sony did 10 years ago, offer a higher end package with ordinary guts at a 500% premium (I'm thinking of their Japan-only limited edition MD players from about 1999-2002- forgot the brand they created for that line).

Apple makes its bones on the concept that anyone with the means can buy their gear, which they present as being the best. Perhaps they have reasoned that if they were to introduce an aspirational boutique line it might reduce the cachet of their mainstream products.

Ti shell wouldn't offer enough of a benefit to the casing to warrant the cost in this situation. While it is light, and stiff, it is similar to the Al shell. That's why spaceship grade carbon fibre is used to reduce weight like in all the new Ferrari's and Lamboghinis. If you need a completely non-reactive metal that adds a little more luxury touch, platinum and gold shells do pretty well. I think the iPad would be about 4-5 lbs with platinum or gold on it unless it's electro-plated on. CNC is also a little easier on those materials since they are more easily shaped.

Anyways, the point is, the products are consumer products so involving too much cost in production would defeat the purpose of earning profit and having a device with a still luxe feel. Sony and Nokia offered their luxury lines with only Nokia still standing. Sony's line was Qualia from back in the 90s and the products were cool but not made with enough luxury for the high end crowd. Nokia on the other hand still has their Vertu lines which most techies hate because it's way too expensive. If an iPad was made using the materials that Vertu uses, you can expect a platinum iPad with Saphire crystal screen, AMOLED Plus, ruby buttons, and ceramic sound chamber to MSRP about $264,000 just on a comparison basis. Would someone buy the said iPad, sure. Just the top 0.01% of the world's population most likely. In any case, I agree with you that improving the materials would possibly take Apple's cost out of alignment and also reduce the number of total units they would sell.
 

aka777

macrumors 6502a
Mar 13, 2012
858
421
Your points are well made but I think maybe you keyed on my reply to an earlier post without realizing that I was simply commenting on the assertion that a Ti shell would cost $1000.00.
.........
Apple makes its bones on the concept that anyone with the means can buy their gear, which they present as being the best. Perhaps they have reasoned that if they were to introduce an aspirational boutique line it might reduce the cachet of their mainstream products.

The $1k was more of an example rather than a solid figure. The R&D was more in relation to things like new AMOLED screens.

The underlying point was that some people are expecting way too much from a device that retails for $499. Moreover, to attain the quality they do expect, requires a substantial increase in the price.
 

Archer1440

Suspended
Mar 10, 2012
730
302
USA
Ti shell wouldn't offer enough of a benefit to the casing to warrant the cost in this situation. While it is light, and stiff, it is similar to the Al shell. That's why spaceship grade carbon fibre is used to reduce weight like in all the new Ferrari's and Lamboghinis.

FYI, "spacecraft grade" carbon fiber (pitch based graphite) is considerably more delicate than ordinary PAN based commercial grade material (18-56 million modulus).

It's used because it has practically zero CTE (coefficient of thermal expansion) and it's extremely stiff (70 million modulus or more) which is important on an antenna alignment system which can have a 350 degree temperature gradient over a couple of inches. The downside is a total lack of impact resistance, with strain abilities under 0.7%, and about 6 times higher material cost.

If these vehicles are using that stuff, you can be sure it's in a tiny percentage of the total carbon proportion in the structure.

You sure as hell wouldn't want to put it into the shell of an iPad.
 

trfjason

macrumors member
May 28, 2010
71
15
I find the build quality of the new iPad better than the iPad 2. No scratches or LCD problem with my new iPad.

I remember my first iPad 2 had some scratches on the aluminum back and imperfect machining of the aluminum case.
 

firstapple

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2007
997
50
If I'm buying Kia, no. If I'm buying a Ferrari, yes absolutely.

If I'm eating at McDonald's, no. If I'm eating at a five star restaurant and spending $75 per entree, your damn right it better look like the picture in the menu.

Apple is supposed to be top of the line. The products should be perfect. There are plenty of posts in all different threads around here where people claim that there iPads are perfect. So like I said before, theirs is perfect everyone else should be able to say the same thing.

When you compare the cost of the iPad vs any other major tablet, how much more is the iPad?

A five star restaurant won't have mass produced items, they are crafted my hand by a very good chef. Ferraris are very much the same in that much more attention is paid to each one when being built. Again, iPads are being mass produced by cheap labor in China.
 

BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,022
My iPad 2 has backlight bleed that I never noticed for the first 6 months of owning it. It wasn't until I started frequenting this forum and read the threads about it that I noticed.

Ditto. I got my iPad and thought it was perfect till I started coming here then I noticed it had a pink tint and light coming through the top left. I spent hours and hours reading about it and then just decided I'd enjoy the device and be happy. Lol
 

danielxute

macrumors member
Aug 1, 2011
62
0
I'm having bad luck with mine too. First my preorder had a dent by the screen and a deep scratch, then my second had a bunch of black pieces of dust that even the genius agreed were super distracting. I thought this last one was perfect but half the screen is yellow and it bleeds so much when I watch Netflix. Wish I didn't sell my perfect iPad 2 now :(
 

bobright

macrumors 601
Jun 29, 2010
4,813
33
Others who are doing this check may never watch a movie on their iPad. They may only use it to browse the internet, play a few games, and send out some e-mails. If there are problems that affect the way someone uses the device, then I agree it is an issue. But if people just go out looking for problems instead of finding them naturally, then I feel this is B S.

I may not go on a YouTube/Movie watching rampage (letterbox material) until a few weeks or month from now though. I want to catch it while it's new so I could return it if I have to and not be bothered by HUGE light blobs along the edges of the frame.

I am speaking about last years model though, this year mine is perfect.
 

firstapple

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2007
997
50
I may not go on a YouTube/Movie watching rampage (letterbox material) until a few weeks or month from now though. I want to catch it while it's new so I could return it if I have to and not be bothered by HUGE light blobs along the edges of the frame.

I am speaking about last years model though, this year mine is perfect.

It comes with a year warranty. If you come across a serious manufacturing defect with 12 months, take it to an Apple store.
 

firstapple

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2007
997
50
and get a refurb or turned down for waiting so long no thanks

Has this happened to you before?

As for a "refurb", it has a new battery and a new outer shell. I would bet you it is in much better condition than the one you would be returning.
 

tmarks11

macrumors 6502a
May 3, 2010
509
32
All LCD have backlight bleeding just live with it.

Not true. Mine doesn't.

Very impressed with the display. I read at night in a dark room, red text on black screen. No bleeding, and the black background lets significantly less light through then my iPad1. Plus, the ability to dim it further then the ioad1 is also welcome.
 

Saturn007

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2010
1,429
1,272
aka777, I hope that you can see the delicious irony in the language you used in criticizing that of another person! What's that old saw? The one about the pot calling the kettle black?! :)

=============================

Holding your iPad on ridiculous angles, in pitch black rooms, with the brightness set high to find some sort of miniscule light bleed is grasping for straws. I also have better things to do with my life than play these games.

Return after return for moronic crap like that does ruin it for everyone
----------------------------

Originally Posted by rocknblogger
Some people around here seem to specialize at being ass*oles.
-----------------------------------

Tell me this isn't coming from someone who is paid to 'blog' (aka talk crap) on the internets.

Always have to laugh whenever I come across anyone, like a talk-radio host, that is paid to talk crap and assume they know it all.

I'd like to give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you are not in this category.
===========================

Methinks the poster doth protest too much! :cool:

As to substance, many people use their iPad in pitch black rooms or settings (reading in bed, doing astronomy outdoors in the dark, etc.), so light bleed could matter greatly to them. In the astronomy world, light bleed can ruin one's dark-adapted vision and the observing.

Now, I agree with you, if it's minor, and only shows up at the highest brightness levels (which one wouldn't be using in the dark in any case) and at extreme angles, people are looking for trouble. You can drive yourself crazy seeking perfection. ("Perfection can be the enemy of the good.")

OTOH, for those who dismiss stuck pixels--just wait until it's your screen and it's a couple right smack in the center of where you read! It can end up driving you batty.
 

VFC

macrumors 6502a
Feb 6, 2012
514
10
SE PA.
However, you are not buying a Rolls Royce.

iPad: $499
Asus Prime: $499
Galaxy Note: $450

Are you conceding that the Apple iPad should be considered an average product?

Years ago, no one could touch Apple's quality. That was much easier to do when Apple had very little competition. Now that there are (arguably) alternatives, Apple is doing what most corporations do (including the large computer company I work for), they cut cost to maintain/gain profitability and market share.
 
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palpatine

macrumors 68040
May 3, 2011
3,130
45
i agree with the op. i've noticed that the new ipad doesn't work well under water, when i tried to use it in a vacuum chamber i noticed light bleed, and worst of all, i could detect pixels in the "retina" display when i placed my eyeball on the ipad. apple needs to step up or step off.
 

aka777

macrumors 6502a
Mar 13, 2012
858
421
Are you conceding that the Apple iPad should be considered an average product?

Years ago, no one could touch Apple's quality. That was much easier to do when Apple had very little competition. Now that there are (arguably) alternatives, Apple is doing what most corporations do (including the large computer company I work for), they cut cost to maintain/gain profitability and marketing share.

Not at all, I am saying people are being dipsh-ts by assuming that a $499 should be built to Rolex quality. Keep in mind, other manufactures would laugh the person off the phone and do not accept returns for buyers remorse.
 
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