Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
New iPad Pro Has Comparable Performance to 2018 15" MacBook Pro in Benchmarks
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I am talking real world use now today. I am happy with my Macs, iPads, and iPhones, and the iPad is good at helping me keep my macs at home more often like when travelling abroad, a Mac Replacement it is not yet.
Agree with most of what you said, but not sure I would call it greed. It's simply Apple being great at maximizing profits. The problem I have is people that try to defend Apple and assign altruistic reasons behind any of their moves. They are a profit-generating machine, and under Tim they have perfected it. What people need to see is that what's good for Apple is usually not good for us, the consumers. Driving prices up because they can't sell the volumes? Making the products less complete, thus driving the sales of accessories? Closed ecosystems, limiting people's ability to switch "camps"?
The difference from days of original iPhone, iPad, etc. is that Apple was in consumer conquest and market acquisition mode. Now it's profit maximization and status quo maintenance.
Arm supports virtualization. Nobody (statistically) cares about bootcamp anymore. Windows is far less important than it used to be. iOS compatibility is far more important.
And much old software will be ported or recompiled. Much of it has already proven portable. Even photoshop, autocad, office, etc.
When Mac came out people lamented “but it won’t run my apple ][ software!”
Life moves on.
How much work could an ipp do while folding, or running any of the boinc projects? Interesting that Apple doesn’t allow for anything of the sort. When it comes to real computing work, the ipp cannot compete.
it's the strategy they're doing, but there's also a flip side to be cautous about. this isn't me saying Apple is "DOOMED" here, But it's a potential timeline that can occur. It's also the sort of thing that Apple has suffered from before (90s) and many other companies have also suffered from
There's only so much more you can charge per unit of an item, while also cutting costs to increase profits before it becomes noticable and apparent to the users. There won't be THAT ONE BIG THING that breaks a company like Apple, but death by a thousand tiny cuts.
As most supply / demand elasticity shows, you can only go so high in your price points before Demand decreases. if wishes to continue with growth in revenues, they will have an upper ceiling in price points before people will look more seriously at alternatives. This sort of sets up a negative feedback loop where Apple might continue to increase prices at the cost of even more sales volume and eventually, that sort of behaviour might collapse in on itself where doesn't matter what price you set, people just don't want to spend that sort of money.
Business is a fun thing to follow. I do so as an armchair CEO cause it's somewhat entertaining. But even Apple is not immune to the whims of the consumer nature. Apple might not want to be a monopoly, but they also cannot just sit and say "our target audience is good enough".
unless they do a business shift and look for stability versus growth. However, I don't think they've done that, as they still are pushing for ever increasing margins.
the next 5 years are going to be very fun to watch as a marketplace business fan.
Technically correct but it’s like saying an African and a Chinese are both human as well. But you are right, all of these limits are Apple imposed for no reason that I can understand.
Jail breaking circumvents some of the Apple imposed limits but in essence, until iOS is modified to run fully scalable floating windows, multi user accounts, terminal commands, allow apps from outside the AppStore, recognizes mouse or trackpad, be able to read and write to external media to name a few, iOS will be the biggest impediment for iPad to be utilized fully.
Can I have a mouse now, while we're highlighting how great it is next to a computer?
I'll overpay for one. Yeah, I just signed up for that. Just make sure it has 2 buttons. Knowing them, we'll go back in time to the old single-button Mac classic mouse... keep that for 2-3 years, then release an updated 2-button mouse. Let's just skip to the end here...
I'll overpay for one. Yeah, I just signed up for that. Just make sure it has 2 buttons. Knowing them, we'll go back in time to the old single-button Mac classic mouse... keep that for 2-3 years, then release an updated 2-button mouse. Let's just skip to the end here...
The one thign about this is performance. It runs, and the UI is smooth, but a lot of the stuff that "professionals" (for lack of better term) require isn't just UI smoothness, but process time efficiency.
For example (maybe a bad one, but at least it's an example). If I'm doing database work. The UI that i'm in, and the tools might be repsonsive, but if the underlying processing power and emulation overhead make the actual process time less than what is available on other platforms today, than it's a a dead stop. Sure the stuff runs, but if my process job takes 2 hours to run instead of 1, than I'm losing money.
this is just an extreme example, and I think this tech will bridge a lot of things for many users, But emulation is not the be-all end all. This is one of the reasons when the "Apples computers should all go ARM!" people don't understand or seem to care to take into account. Such a loss in performance due to the emulation would be a serious money cost to productivity.
There's also a reason why, despite showcasing it, Microsoft hasn't released it yet. it's not ready for the market due to quite a few bugs and problems.
maybe one day.
That’s not their target audience. There are one and a half billion iPhones sold. Apple would much rather target people who desire iOS interoperability than windows interoperability. To make billions of people happy they will gladly sacrifice the small number that are still willing to pay a lot extra to run Windows on Mac. You can buy a windows machine for two hundred bucks nowadays. A lot of people who switched to Mac because it could run Windows have moved on with their lives.
[doublepost=1541163426][/doublepost]
I’m hoping you didn’t mean this the way it looks. You may want to make your point a very different way.
this line is fundamentally incorrect.
Windows is still the largest bulk of the computer use around the globe. Sounds like you bought into Tim Cooks misleading facts at the keynote, hook line and sinker.
That whole "400 million" number is impressive, but comparing it to laptops only was misleading as frog.
There are an eestimated 4+ Billion windows computers currently active in the world. An estimated 80% of the worlds computer usage is windows.
MacOS has definitely gotten much better in the last decade, hitting nearly 10% of the worlds usage, But to suddenly think that Windows has become irrelevant shows a very narrow minded and really shows that you don't understand the computer industry as a business.
[doublepost=1541164039][/doublepost]
I've recently moved off MacOS for my own personal laptop due to pricing, BUT, if I were buying a new Mac Today (I really wish I could, that new AIR tickles me the right way
), and you told me "no more bootcamp, no more Windows VM" It would be an absolute HARD STOP.no windows support = No buy.
is that because i have a love affair with windows/ No. you should hear me screaming at my desk about things Microsoft has done. But Windows outside of consumer culture is an absolute integral part of the vast majority of the worlds infrastructure. You will not find a single enterprise that isn't running Windows in their back end, if not all of their front end.
Many consumers seem to think that what they see in their hand is 90% of the tech world. However, "Consumer" tech is the tip of the iceberg. Behind all those touch screens and fancy click buttons are billions of linux and windows machines, databases, IT professional, programers, Etc, all powering vast data centres full of high powered enterprise devices that need to be maintained and need to work with absolute stability and customizable security.
This is the part of the game that Apple has absolutely ZERO penetration into. Apple has zero presence in enterprise, outside of a few desktop users who have forced their IT teams to support them.
many of Apple's PC based decision in the last 2-4 yeasrs seem entirely focused on the Consumer side. Forgetting about the droves of us in the background who have to support those instant payments via Apple pay. Those Emails you get to your Mail app, or the messages that flow through iMessage. And we all use a combination of OS's to do so. The death of XSERVE's were a tipping point with Apple walking away from this part of the tech world to focus on the fast cash of consumerism.
anyways, RANT OVER. Just trying to point out that a lot of people here who believe Apple's computers are some world powering monsterhouse who can replace Linux/Windows en masse are sorely mistaken. Apple's Computer side is still peanuts in the computer industry outside of their laptops consumer space.
No it’s not incorrect. You think Windows is as important as ten years ago? Do you know how many businesses used to control even mobile devices for their employees but now allow you to bring your own? How many companies have moved to web based internal flows? How many consumers now rely on iOS instead of buying windows machines? Are you really asserting that Windows is NOT on the decline? Because even Microsoft disagrees with you. And are you suggesting android and iOS aren’t replacing it? Because it’s not Apple, but analysts, who say there are well over a billion iPhones in use. Now add iPads.
It used to be 99 percent of the world used windows. Now it’s 80 percent (if we believe your number, which I think is misleading because it ignores that many of those people also use iOS or android). That shows windows isn’t as important as it used to be, which is the statement you disagree with.
There’s a reason Microsoft gave up on mobile and is rushing to find ways to derive revenue from iOS customers. Windows is over. It will be relegated to a few business cases and legacy systems, just like there are still machines out there running DOS and mainframes running COBOL.
The implication is that let's say in 2020 they launch a ARM based MacBook on the "low-end" and stay with Intel on the high-end (let's say a A14X 12" MB)... this implies they'll have to cripple the CPU in order to give the 15" Intel MBP a fighting chance
Those folks at Intel are at huge risk of looking like bozos (actually a good friend of mine who was an architect of their CPUs left a few years ago because politics drove everything... he said watch and see the CPU line stagnate and basically was spot on over what's happened since 2014).
Those folks at Intel are at huge risk of looking like bozos (actually a good friend of mine who was an architect of their CPUs left a few years ago because politics drove everything... he said watch and see the CPU line stagnate and basically was spot on over what's happened since 2014).
Most of the world's back ends are still Windows and linux. that breakdown hasn't changed much.
Active Directory federation services are one of the most prolific in the world.
now, consumer attention to windows might be dwindling, but windows use in the world isn't. People are just paying less attention
using Windows Mobiles failure as some evidence is asanine. All you do on your iPhone and iPads are likely powered in the backend by windows/linux combinations. All those emails. messages. all go through windows in some form or another will touch in some point a windows server somewhere, either from authentication, or even outright as the mail / Database server that powers it
True; which is why I think it would be a VM to run the ARM version of Windows rather than going back to an emulation layer.
Unfortunately, Apple has historically discounted products that appealed primarily to a niche market.
Must say, the headphone jack has my head scratching, seen as they don’t speak of water resistance with the iPad. As much as I hate it not on the iPhone, it makes sense that without the jack minimizes water damage. Otherwise in my mind, they really hit it out of the park with this device.
They do already have apps running on both. GarageBand etc. even though they aren’t high end apps, it’s the start of getting reliability of larger apps running
They do already have apps running on both. GarageBand etc. even though they aren’t high end apps, it’s the start of getting reliability of larger apps running
I can't wait to see what Apple designed silicon can do in an actively cooled mac with macOS (the A12X in the iPad is great and all, but for all of the USB C stuff, it still doesn't support external drives, cursors, no Xcode, etc, iOS restricts what this chip can do).
Subscribe to the Apple developer program and get free access to XCode Cloud! Code in your browser window anywhere, or from the new XCodeCloud App on your iOS device!! Easily work in teams with all of your source code online and full version control facilities!!! Super-fast compilation on our immense server farm!!!! Virtual testing on all current Apple hardware!!!!! One-click publishing to the App Store!!!!!! Unicorns on coat-hangers with purple dog food that turns into spiderwibblw wurblwe wazzut yawn uh? ...oh, gosh I just had the most horrible dream!
The alternative, of course, is rather than make ARM-based Macs, release MacOS for iPad. I've just been comparing the bang-per-buck of the new MacBook Air with the new iPad Pro (...with 256GB storage the cost of a 12.9" iPad Pro + folio keyboard and a MacBook Air is about the same, yet the iPad supposedly gives MBP+TB level benchmarks...)
MS has said that there are 1.5 billion Windows PC's in use worldwide. So where are you getting your 4+ billion number from?this line is fundamentally incorrect.
Windows is still the largest bulk of the computer use around the globe. Sounds like you bought into Tim Cooks misleading facts at the keynote, hook line and sinker.
That whole "400 million" number is impressive, but comparing it to laptops only was misleading as frog.
There are an eestimated 4+ Billion windows computers currently active in the world. An estimated 80% of the worlds computer usage is windows.
MacOS has definitely gotten much better in the last decade, hitting nearly 10% of the worlds usage, But to suddenly think that Windows has become irrelevant shows a very narrow minded and really shows that you don't understand the computer industry as a business.
[doublepost=1541164039][/doublepost]
I've recently moved off MacOS for my own personal laptop due to pricing, BUT, if I were buying a new Mac Today (I really wish I could, that new AIR tickles me the right way
no windows support = No buy.
is that because i have a love affair with windows/ No. you should hear me screaming at my desk about things Microsoft has done. But Windows outside of consumer culture is an absolute integral part of the vast majority of the worlds infrastructure. You will not find a single enterprise that isn't running Windows in their back end, if not all of their front end.
Many consumers seem to think that what they see in their hand is 90% of the tech world. However, "Consumer" tech is the tip of the iceberg. Behind all those touch screens and fancy click buttons are billions of linux and windows machines, databases, IT professional, programers, Etc, all powering vast data centres full of high powered enterprise devices that need to be maintained and need to work with absolute stability and customizable security.
This is the part of the game that Apple has absolutely ZERO penetration into. Apple has zero presence in enterprise, outside of a few desktop users who have forced their IT teams to support them.
many of Apple's PC based decision in the last 2-4 yeasrs seem entirely focused on the Consumer side. Forgetting about the droves of us in the background who have to support those instant payments via Apple pay. Those Emails you get to your Mail app, or the messages that flow through iMessage. And we all use a combination of OS's to do so. The death of XSERVE's were a tipping point with Apple walking away from this part of the tech world to focus on the fast cash of consumerism.
anyways, RANT OVER. Just trying to point out that a lot of people here who believe Apple's computers are some world powering monsterhouse who can replace Linux/Windows en masse are sorely mistaken. Apple's Computer side is still peanuts in the computer industry outside of their laptops consumer space.
https://www.thurrott.com/windows/189773/1-5-billion-windows-pcs
None of that is relevant on the client side. Clients are increasingly iOS and Android, and yes, it's absolutely relevant that Windows Mobile's role essentially faded away around 2010.
Microsoft increasingly provides Mac clients/tools for their Windows servers, such as Azure Data Studio (replacement for the Windows-only SQL Server Management Studio), Visual Studio for Mac, …
Well, nothing bad or derogatory. In a sense they are all the same underneath but look different on the outside. Having the same core does not make things the same. To put it in another way (strictly speaking for macOS and IOS) humans and chimpanzees share 99% of the same DNA.
Last edited:
Because benchmarks are just benchmarks. Real world performance is a different story. Do people buy machines to brag about benchmarks or shave more time off their workflow?
Software and games that rely on high single core speeds will simply do better what a faster base clock CPU. Benchmarks are not everything!
...and approximately 0% of that infrastructure is hosted on Macs running Bootcamp or Parallels, so that's hardly relevant to the argument about ARM-based Macs. Going forward, an increasing fraction of it is going to be running on ARM chips as the power consumption and air-conditioning costs of data centres become a big deal.
Meanwhile, more and more of the front ends are either iOS or Android Apps, websites or web-based apps wrapped in something like Electron (basically a run-time offline version of Chrome that turns webapps into something like an old-school local application - Visual Studio Code is a good example).
Sorry, windows on desktops/laptops is far less "unavoidable" than it was years ago - that doesn't mean its gone, just that its easier to live without that Windows VM on your mac than it was 5-10 years ago. Obviously there are many, many heavy-duty pro applications that run on Windows - but, seriously, if you're doing significant work on Windows software you want a decent Windows machine. Maybe in the past Macs have been attractive as Windows boxes, but these days they're just a necessary evil if you want to run MacOS. The key take-home from the recent launch is that all of Apple's imagination and innovation is now going into iDevices.
Can't speak for the future, but I do know that 99% of college students at University of Texas at Austin use laptops, not tablets, as their go-to work/study and entertainment computers. I rarely ever see students, staff, or faculty using tablets. Most students seem to purchase high end laptops toward the beginning of their college studies with the idea of retaining them throughout their degree pursuits. A definite trend over the last two years has been an uptake in the use of pc laptops over Apple laptops. University people WANT PORTS, and they want touch screen capability in conjunction with full laptop functionality (robust keyboards and touchpads). Most students are in their 20's, so that might qualify as a "future" predictor. My gut feeling is that ultimately some hybrid mix of laptop/desktop and tablet portability will be "in the stars". With current offerings, though, the laptop is not going away anytime soon. Smart phones are the portable device of choice, laptops the workhorse for university people. As a retired techie geezer from said university, I still value one nice desktop (currently a year old iMac), three PC laptops running Linux, a vintage 2006 (1,1) MacBook Pro that I keep around in awe of its longevity, an iPhone 6S+ and LG V40 smartphones (both have headphone jacks). The iMac is my anchor, the laptops my workhorses, and the phones for glue in between the others. Oh, and my iPad Pro I use mainly for music activities, both for listening and performing. Maybe someday some virtual hybrid device / thingie will combine the functionality of all these things, but someday isn't here, yet.