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New 'Mac Pro' $900!

contoursvt said:
Start of rant....

Tell yourself that the Mac Pro is some magic box because its a Xeon. Pretend that a Xeon is somehow faster than an equally clocked Core2 based CPU. Do the above if it helps you sleep at night :)

Truth is that a Core2 Quad 2.4Ghz is equal in performance to a Quad Xeon 2.66Ghz and actually sometimes a bit faster. I dont recall anyone saying that last generations quad 2.66 was exactly a slug. Also the 8GB limit for the Core2 based machines is not exactly that low. For most power users, this is plenty.

Running OSX may be illegal but you know, for some OSX is not the be all and end all. For some, flexability and upgrade path might actually be more important. I'm sure there are plenty of users right on this forum getting frustrated to the point where they might consider Linux or Gasp...even Windows at the chance to have a strong machine for half the price. I personally dont love OSX enough to buy a new Mac. I refuse to spend 2X the price to get similar performance and less upgradability routes.

Also regarding the operating systems. Intelligent people can work on any operating system and find software workarounds that will suit their needs. There are also many users right on this board that have run other OS's including windows that have no stability or performance problems with those other operating systems..... It takes time to learn the platform and know what to do and what not to do. Each has its quirks.

I also dont enjoy the forced obsolecense built into Apple products. Question. If someone purchased a retail version of Tiger not that long ago and just purchased a Mac Pro (or any Mac) that shipped with Leopard, can they choose to go back to Tiger? Everything I've read pretty much says No... in the sense that you will not have the proper hardware support and might end up with an unstable box. I dont like that. Should be my choice.

My rant is over now.


PS. I'm quite happy with my Antec P180 case and dont find it ugly in the least. I also enjoy having 6 internal hard drive bays :)
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Intelligent people use the best tool for the job, and they use what they feel is best suited to their needs. I've used windows for 10 years, I've grown to hate it more then anything in the world. Especially after my Dell laptop shipped with Vista. It's slow, ugly, and I had to buy a new $450 scanner because fujistsu never updated their drivers for Vista - and never will. I think OSX is a great OS. Especially for the Unix geek who can get around in terminal. There is an array of great applications available to OSX. Office 2008, Macports, all of those goodies. It comes to preference, performance, and visual appeal. If you sit in front of a computer like I do all day, you appreciate something that looks and functions nice. Visual effects play a big role in software and web design these days for a reason.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
1. The Mac Pro is overpriced
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Compared to what though? A dell Precision t7400 with two E5440 2gb of ram and 250GB drive totals to $4,378 the mac pro is only $2799 I don't see where you guys get that the mac pro is overpriced. As the dell and mac may have the same specs in that comparison^ but the Mac Pro also has other advantages between, case design, noise levels, firewire ports, optical line in and out just to name a few. But i do see why someone would want to build there own system. It holds the headless imac spot.
 
Historically speaking...

Windows PC, as know it today, is a faster, bastardized IBM PC/AT. Innovation in hardware for the platform died because it was cloned out of existence and those clones kept IBM from getting anywhere with newer designs. I'd truly hate to see history repeat itself because a growing number of people feel entitled to do as they please in the dubious name of "Apple overprices hardware".
 
i like the idea. give options to everyone. for someone to pay 800 to try out osx is fantastic. they'll def get sick of it and jump ship anyway.

i have no qualms.
 
contoursvt said:
Start of rant....

I also dont enjoy the forced obsolecense built into Apple products. Question. If someone purchased a retail version of Tiger not that long ago and just purchased a Mac Pro (or any Mac) that shipped with Leopard, can they choose to go back to Tiger? Everything I've read pretty much says No... in the sense that you will not have the proper hardware support and might end up with an unstable box. I dont like that. Should be my choice.

My rant is over now.
Click to expand...

Question: What kind of bear is best?
 
Like OSX has no dropped driver support? Can I install 10.5 on my G4 that came shipped with the Adaptec SCSI card and SCSI drives? Heck thats apple's own machine and supplied hardware! Not even 3rd party like your scanner prob.

Does that Fujitsu scanner you had work in Leopard? I dont even see one OSX driver listed on their site for their scanners.


Mr.PS said:
Intelligent people use the best tool for the job, and they use what they feel is best suited to their needs. I've used windows for 10 years, I've grown to hate it more then anything in the world. Especially after my Dell laptop shipped with Vista. It's slow, ugly, and I had to buy a new $450 scanner because fujistsu never updated their drivers for Vista - and never will. I think OSX is a great OS. Especially for the Unix geek who can get around in terminal. There is an array of great applications available to OSX. Office 2008, Macports, all of those goodies. It comes to preference, performance, and visual appeal. If you sit in front of a computer like I do all day, you appreciate something that looks and functions nice. Visual effects play a big role in software and web design these days for a reason.
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contoursvt said:
Like OSX has no dropped driver support? Can I install 10.5 on my G4 that came shipped with the Adaptec SCSI card and SCSI drives? Heck thats apple's own machine and supplied hardware! Not even 3rd party like your scanner prob.

Does that Fujitsu scanner you had work in Leopard? I dont even see one OSX driver listed on their site for their scanners.
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Precisely why Apple continues to support OS X 10.3 and 10.4 with security and other software updates. OS X 10.5 has minimum requirements that exceed vintage but not obsolete hardware.
 
A potential problem with installing Mac OS X on a non-Apple branded computer is the license agreement that is bundled with Mac OS X. The user that is installing Mac OS X must agree to the license before installing the operating system. According to the license, the software can only be installed on a "Single Apple-labeled computer" at a time.

2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
A. This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer at a time, and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time. You may make one copy of the Apple Software (excluding the Boot ROM code) in machine-readable form for backup purposes only; provided that the backup copy must include all copyright or other proprietary notices contained on the original.[11]

There are no United States court rulings that establish precedent on the legality of restricting software to only specific hardware. It's possible that this clause of the EULA is not binding on legally purchased software in private use. Other countries may have different laws or precedents.

The legality issues falls under a gray area. With Leopard, you don't need to pirate it either, you can buy the retail disc, copy it to your hard disk, add the patches, and reburn, similar to slipstreaming a Windows XP disc with the service packs, patches, drivers, etc.

Personally, I dont see why so many people take such offense. Yes, Apple computers are pretty and all, but geez, like others here have stated, its a tool, not a fashion statement. I personally see this as kinda good, as it increases the number of OSX users out there, and from what I've seen on the OSX86 boards, a lot of them buy Apple hardware too.

I have a Dual 1 GHz G4 tower, and I have a Hackintosh. I use both daily.

Though the Hackintosh totally blows away the G4 in raw performance.

My G4 cost me a few hundred. My Hackintosh, I've spent a whopping 25 bucks on. The tower was given to me by the non-profit I volunteer at, everyone was given one for moving 300 of them into our workshop from the commmunity college (Dell Optiplex GX270, P4HT 2.8 GHz, 512MB, 80GB, DVD-ROM). I dropped an extra 1GB of RAM I had on-hand, bought a 5200 card on eBay for around 15 dollars, and added a 10 dollar CD-RW drive.

I dont care what it looks like, I care more about the performance. Actually, the tower isnt too bad looking either.
 
Honestly i find it funny how people justify there selfs in this thread.

A machine with a Q6600 and ddr2 is consumer hardware, no more no less.
It also explains why if you buy it, when you walk out the store it is only worth half of what you paid for it. It is great consumer CPU no doubt about that and it will run stuff like photoshop more then fine. On top of that it's great tech experiment that you can run macos-x on it. But it's A. not legal and B. it will require a lot of work to keep it working for the next 3 years i expect.

A mac pro with roughly the same computing power(1 cpu, 2600XT) really has a similar cost of ownership. Yes the writeoff might cost you 200$ more in 3 years, it might not, sure that is debatable. But you do get a legal fully supported machine which is guaranteed to work as it should. It has far better cooling then any comparable pc case and has buffered memory. It is build to be a workhorse basically.

And as long as Steve is the head honcho at apple there will never come a midi tower, ever! Just put it out of your head. It would sell like no other computer for sure but, Steve sees computers as an appliance, a tool. Which should basicly be 1 part. The imac of course being the prime example.

Hardware and software should be bundled for the best way to function too. I'm quite sure that the mac pro as is, in steve's eye is a compromise he is willing to make for real prof. power users. But he would much rather just offer 1 config i'm sure.

And to be honest i completely agree with him, it's the only way you gonna get the quality most of us are looking for in a computer.
 
Quash said:
And as long as Steve is the head honcho at apple there will never come a midi tower, ever! Just put it out of your head. It would sell like no other computer for sure but, Steve sees computers as an appliance, a tool. Which should basicly be 1 part. The imac of course being the prime example.
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I tend to agree after this much time has passed since Apple released the Mac Pros and repeatedly kicking up their entry level for towers going back to the the G3 and G4's. People forget that apple used to have G3 and G4 towers that started at under $1499 at various times...

But every time the Apple store goes down, like it is right now, I still have hope!
 
When you buy a Mac you get the whole package. Not just OSX. You get the beautiful hardware, the whole mystique. It's like buying a Ferrari over a Corvette. Sure the Corvette is cheaper and depending on the models you're comparing to in the Ferrari range even fast, but you do not get the same mystique and pleasure of ownership.

Mac has always catered to professionals. Graphics artists, video editors, music producers, etc... Just in the recent years they've started catering to consumers - home users. The Mac Pro is a work station meant for people who are serious about their work, not for cheapsakes trying to save $1500.... Whats with the huge influx of cheap bastards looking to buy mac's lately?

A hackintosh is not a real Mac. It will boot and you can use it, but it's not perfect. I'm typing this message from a Dell E1405 with OSX leopard on it right now and to be honest it sucks! Mouse skips around, there is no sound, and it only runs on 1 core. Not to mention it throws all sorts of wierd dmesg's when trying to install things via Macports. It's not a perfect system, no Hackintosh is.
 
the point everyone seems to be missing here is that he could have easily put in a 8800GT if he wanted to..as well as max out the ram..he just didn't want to spend much on it

honestly, he did very well for under $1000

about reliability..if something breaks 2 years down the line he can go out and buy another motherboard or something for $100 that day at a store rather than go through apple and take 2 weeks only to pay $300. Not to mention, all the parts have their own warranty. I have a selfbuilt PC that is 7 years old..still running fine today.
 
trainguy77 said:
Either way its very illegal. Its against the EULA. Mac OS X can't be installed on a non apple branded item without breaking the EULA.
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honestly..is it even legal to do that?

If they actually prosecuted for that, I don't think Apple could win due to various international law issues. That would be like saying that it is illegal to use a Sony DVD player on any TV other than a Sony TV. I'm assuming that you paid for the OS.
 
Freyqq said:
honestly..is it even legal to do that?

If they actually prosecuted for that, I don't think Apple could win due to various international law issues. That would be like saying that it is illegal to use a Sony DVD player on any TV other than a Sony TV. I'm assuming that you paid for the OS.
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I would think its legal, as you accept the terms when you install.
 
trainguy77 said:
I would think its legal, as you accept the terms when you install.
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terms within a contract can be illegal or not legally backed

if you signed a contract that said that you had to kill someone and you then refuse, they can't turn around and sue you for not killing someone..since that itself was illegal.
 
Freyqq said:
terms within a contract can be illegal or not legally backed

if you signed a contract that said that you had to kill someone and you then refuse, they can't turn around and sue you for not killing someone..since that itself was illegal.
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OS X is Apple's intellectual property, which you get a license to use subject to their terms. You do not own it in any sense, meaning that your "rights" to its use are "at will" to Apple. Pretty air tight legally speaking. Worst case for Apple they might have to give a pro rated refund of license fee should the contract be declared null and void", but would retain rights to bar its use.
 
Freyqq said:
the point everyone seems to be missing here is that he could have easily put in a 8800GT if he wanted to..as well as max out the ram..he just didn't want to spend much on it

honestly, he did very well for under $1000

about reliability..if something breaks 2 years down the line he can go out and buy another motherboard or something for $100 that day at a store rather than go through apple and take 2 weeks only to pay $300. Not to mention, all the parts have their own warranty. I have a selfbuilt PC that is 7 years old..still running fine today.
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I'm not sure there are hackintosh drivers for the 8800GT or any better card than he chose...
 
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