New Mac Pro Confirmed to Have Removable CPU

[Mechanic]

so here's a question i have - as i understood it, the dual xeon mac pros had CPUs that had no thermal cover on them - the usual silver plate that identifies the cpu and build location and revision and such. are the new mac pros the same way?
i understood it to be that the lack of that thermal plate made adding aftermarket CPU upgrades a bit tricky since you had to remove the plate to get optimal thermal performance.

Look at the pictures closer on other worlds site you will see the thermal plate on the Xeon. So apple went back to Xeons with the thermal spreader on them.

 

[TXAppleUser]

FINALLY we can lay this to rest.

You CAN replace the CPU, GPU, and internal storage. While non-proprietary connectors would be nice ... its Apple, what did you expect?

I don't think it's confirmed that we can replace the GPU. CPU, SSD, and RAM, yes. GPU? We don't know yet.

----------

excellent!

Does this mean that I can put this one there and save $800?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116925

Probably.

 

[Cisco_Kid]

I've only ever heard my 92 year old grand parents talk in yards which make no sense in this metric world.

Honestly, you never watched football?

 

[OrangeSVTguy]

Looks like TigerDirect has the 12 core CPU for under $2700. Cheaper than Apple's upgrade cost and you still get to keep your stock CPU.

 

[N64]

Everyone saying that the compliance with ancient standards is a way to enable upgradeability is kidding himself. What those IBM-compatible PCs do, is to enable user-downgradebility. And yes, being smaller, lighter and looking sleeker as previous computers is a form of progress. You want to go further that route until the power of a Mac Pro fits on your ring finger.

Thunderbolt is worse than PCIe. Nobody cares how cool it is or how old PCIe is because TB is weaker. Remember too that PCIe is not updated infrequently and is backwards-compatible. And PCIe works perfectly fine for sound cards. TB works fine for sound cards, but it just costs more and provides no performance benefit. There's no reason to get rid of it except to make it sleeker.

Also, a propriety connector on the GPU helps nobody but Apple.

----------

All those old sound cards made for the expansion of pre-thunderbolt computers. Who knows if all those stuff isn't better emulated in software? Or build right in that external sound station you want to connect to your computer? Does it belong inside the machine? I don't know. Maybe not.

The old sound cards still work and still cost a lot of money. And TB is Mac-only. You want something with TB connections, you'll have to pay for that low supply, low competition, high price machinery made in small quantities. PCIe stuff is cheap and works just as well.

In fact, anything not "made for Mac" tends to automatically be cheaper. Should be obvious why when you consider supply and demand.

----------

Honestly, you never watched football?

Yes, here in America we use yards.

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

Thunderbolt is worse than PCIe. Nobody cares how cool it is or how old PCIe is because TB is weaker. And PCIe works perfectly fine for sound cards. TB works fine for sound cards, but it just costs more and provides no performance benefit. There's no reason to get rid of it except to make it sleeker.

Also, a propriety connector on the GPU helps nobody but Apple.

And software manufacturers stuck in the stone age pushing antiquated sound cards instead of embracing OpenCL helps anybody except for stone age software developers?

 

[Renzatic]

Also, a propriety connector on the GPU helps nobody but Apple.

This is true.

And TB is Mac-only.

But this isn't. There are PC motherboards out there with Thunderbolt ports, and I've heard rumors of PCIe TB cards being available.

I like TB, and what it could represent for the future. I've always been kinda hoping for a more modular, less monolithic tower specific computer, and the TB-centric Mac Pro is the first baby step towards that.

...but right now, it's just that: a baby step. It's great for external harddrives and whatnot. Things that could use more bandwidth than eSATA and USB 3.0 give. But it's nowhere NEAR being able to provide what PCIe currently can.

At the moment, it's more of a solid supplement, rather than an outright replacement.

 

[solamar]

LG Socket 2011 though will be depreciated once Haswell based xeon's are released too wont they? i'm not versed that well in intel's roadmap, but isn't it sort of late to this particular socket iteration?

though, the fact it's a standard CPU socket without any customization which allows for you to put your own CPU in there is absolutely an awesome inclusion.

now...

how bout those GPU cards

Xeon processors are always 1 generation behind.. when Intel comes out with next gen after Haswell, Xeon will come out with Haswell..

I think they use consumer lines as a proving ground for the Business class processor / chipsets.. it's there way to ensure stability ..

 

[aloshka]

This is true.

But this isn't. There are PC motherboards out there with Thunderbolt ports, and I've heard rumors of PCIe TB cards being available.

The windows side of TB is awful though. It acts as a full PCI bridge, so it requires a reboot to be detected. So far, no good drivers for windows that will true TB plug and play.

----------

Xeon processors are always 1 generation behind.. when Intel comes out with next gen after Haswell, Xeon will come out with Haswell..

I think they use consumer lines as a proving ground for the Business class processor / chipsets.. it's there way to ensure stability ..

You are right, but the current xeons are already Haswell. Granted almost 2 years later. These are Haswell EP. But you are right. When broadwell comes out, it won't be until 1-2 years that xeons are updated. From what I understand (was an article on anandtech) broadwell will use the same socket(s). Might be wrong

 

[Paul Turpin]

TB has a much shorter maximum distance than ethernet or fiber, which both can push dozens or even hundreds of meters.
Try even finding a TB cable that is longer than 10 yards.

20 meters (approx 65 feet) - $619 - thunderbolt 2

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Othe...n=googlebase&gclid=CMXAi4qk0rsCFUzZQgodlh8AEg

 

[gugy]

pro workstations are not purchased w/ CPU updatability in mind, i assure you. we buy workstations, we use them for a number of years, and then we retire them. we are not sitting here dorking around w/ DIY CPU upgrades...thats an activity for enthusiasts.

Well said!
I get a new machine every 3 years right about the time my AppleCare expires.

 

[N64]

But this isn't. There are PC motherboards out there with Thunderbolt ports, and I've heard rumors of PCIe TB cards being available.

I like TB, and what it could represent for the future. I've always been kinda hoping for a more modular, less monolithic tower specific computer, and the TB-centric Mac Pro is the first baby step towards that.

...but right now, it's just that: a baby step. It's great for external harddrives and whatnot. Things that could use more bandwidth than eSATA and USB 3.0 give. But it's nowhere NEAR being able to provide what PCIe currently can.

At the moment, it's more of a solid supplement, rather than an outright replacement.

Yeah, I should have added the "mostly" in there. It's still rare. In case anyone thinks that I am implying that I don't like Thunderbolt, I like the idea of it, but I'm not going to pretend that it's a suitable replacement for PCIe on this Mac Pro. First of all, it needs to be mass-produced so it's cheaper. Then it needs the bandwidth to support video cards (which should happen but would require an update to Thunderbolt 3, right?).

PCIe today is still very needed. If anyone is going to complain about old standards, complain that 90% of the world population seems to be brainwashed into using MP3 instead of AAC.

----------

Looks like TigerDirect has the 12 core CPU for under $2700. Cheaper than Apple's upgrade cost and you still get to keep your stock CPU.

Which means... plenty of cheap 4-core Xeons out of Mac Pros for sale soon? I wonder if my Mac Pro 3,1 or one of my b0x0rs can take it, but I'm going to guess no.

 

[proline]

Nobody claimed the CPU would not be upgradable. It's the GPUs which are not upgradable. Nothing has changed.

And that's more garbage. You have no way of knowing if GPU upgrades will happen or not at this point.

----------

Seriously, 'Apologies'? To whom? Apple? Phil Schiller? Perhaps these people could make an offering at the Steve Jobs altar you keep in your basement in order to appease... you, I guess?

'Apologies', for making an assumption about a tech product. Like, someone's feelings were hurt. Wow.

The apologies are for making false predictions. Admitting you are wrong is a necessary step to improvement, which you need because the ability to read a situation and make accurate predictions is crucial to success. So really, the apology you owe is to yourself. Doing it in public just helps the message get through.

 

[LongSticks]

actually more like 8gb or 4gb. There are 10gb HBAs too though, I've seen some faster ones but we arent using any here.
The main advantage of fiber isn't speed. It's speed combined with distance. We have a fiber run about a mile long to the stadium down the street. Cost us a mint to put it in, but we don't have to pay thousands for every single time we connect via AT&T, Level 3 or some other provider. And better, we can maintain both ends in house, and barring cut fiber, we can recover any problems in house.
I'll be interested to see how TB evolves. The optical side of TB has yet to show up for the party, so perhaps that will provide the "long distance version" for NAS arrangements where the array resides on another floor.

Try these. Obviously not TB2 at the moment, but im sure they will be along!

http://www.attotech.com/products/pr...LFC-1082-D00&gclid=CKrV95mq0rsCFfMctAodDVYAfg

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/H...k-thunderbolt-to-4gbits-fibre-channel-adapter

 

[cclloyd]

So CPU is removable/upgradable, RAM is upgradable, SSDs are upgradable, and GPUs have the possibility of being upgradable. What was that about the Mac Pro being useless because it can't be upgraded and thus will quickly be obsolete?

I thought the same thing at first. Seems like they just made it more streamlined yet still upgradable. It's just not EXPANDABLE (like more thunderbolt, and I don't mean daisy chaining, I'm talking a full 20gbps more)

 

[CyBeRino]

took me a bit of link delving but I found it again!

http://f.cl.ly/items/1Q1X3F210F0L0E0l0n0T/Thunderbolt Developers Application - V1.2.pdf

I think you are misreading that. It says "Not currently supported", because they haven't worked on any such thing yet (probably because of the bandwidth requirements that even Tb2 doesn't fulfull.) It doesn't say it *won't* be supported.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

Mac Pros being purchased by professionals probably mean they dont want to deal with DIY projects. Much like ram upgrades, companies would rather keep quick warranty standards than to pinch every dollar.

 

[Parasprite]

RAM has always been user replaceable. SSD and GPU are factory upgradeable (at least upon purchase) so choose wisely.

Except for the MacBook Airs, though I'm pretty sure you were referring to Desktop Macs.

 

[ghettochris]

It's not a conspiracy on Apple's part. It's rational engineering analysis and design. Look at their products, look at who buys them, how they use them, the cost of manufacture, the built-in cost of warranty repair, the competitive landscape, consumer appeal (sexiness)... it's easy to find quite rational, unemotional reasons for everything they do. No malevolent intent is necessary. But of course, if we all thought like Vulcans, these forums would be really boring.

Live long and prosper.

 

[Parasprite]

I've only ever heard my 92 year old grand parents talk in yards which make no sense in this metric world.

Yards are still used in some sports and road signs, why? I have no idea.

 

[Parasprite]

Yes, here in America we use yards.

We use feet more as a unit of length and yards more as a unit of distance (where miles aren't appropriate). However, yards are falling out of fashion and will probably be replaced by a combination of meters and feet.

 

[N64]

I thought the same thing at first. Seems like they just made it more streamlined yet still upgradable. It's just not EXPANDABLE (like more thunderbolt, and I don't mean daisy chaining, I'm talking a full 20gbps more)

I don't really know what I'm talking about when it comes to motherboards, but isn't that maximum bandwidth limited by the motherboard? Not just Thunderbolt but other things like USB and PCIe?

 

[Stingray454]

This is what I would get...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116937

Then you can hop on eBay and sell the chip the Mac Pro came with.

I think Apple went with 3.0 Ghz 8-core for a reason - TDP. The nMP only has a 450W power supply, which isn't that much. It should handle the CPU + 2 GPU's, and I'd say it's already quite close to its limits. The linked processor has 20W higher TDP than the 8-core Apple uses. 20W isn't that much, but it COULD cause stability issues.

 

[the8thark]

$64,000 question - right here.

If any enterprising Mac journal worth its salt is reading this - it will be planning a way to find out if you can buy the baseline model and upgrade it to the 12 core and if it works, compare performance between the factory 12 core and the user-upgraded machine.

That might not be a smart idea. Less faster cores vs more slower cores. Different setups for different workloads.

 

[cclloyd]

I don't really know what I'm talking about when it comes to motherboards, but isn't that maximum bandwidth limited by the motherboard? Not just Thunderbolt but other things like USB and PCIe?

To an extent, but I mean, imagine a computer that had 4 slots. They could have only put 2 cards in and had 6 Tunderbolt 2. The motherboard is going to make sure to have bandwidth enough for full PCI across all its slots.