New Mac Pro Facing Lengthy Delivery Estimates, Possibly Due to Coronavirus

brent1a

macrumors member
Jan 9, 2005
54
3
The idea that every American is smart enough to get a graduate degree and land a high end white collar job is unrealistic. Likewise, the US doesn’t need 100 million Subpar engineers, lawyers, scientists, etc.
In fact, the insistence that every American is owed such an education and job, has driven down the quality of graduates and jobs in the US.
Contrary to popular ivory tower belief there are a multitude of Americans that would be perfectly happy assembling electronics (or whatever) for decent pay, over flipping burgers or clerking gas stations.
(I said DECENT pay, above fast food pay but below engineer pay.)
When the politicians and their media lackeys quit pushing such nonsense, maybe then the US can get back to it’s great manufacturing roots and we won’t have 96 million people not in the work force, nor failing colleges flooded with unnecessary students racking up tons of debt.
 

Baymowe335

macrumors 603
Oct 6, 2017
5,779
10,627
LOL, not just electronics.

Those "all-American" Mustangs on the local Ford dealer's lot? Probably half of the components are sourced from foreign vendors. Hell, there's a good chance final assembly was in Mexico or Canada.

And that was ten years ago.

If any given device has a computer chip in it, it probably has a certain portion of components sourced outside the USA (starting with -- but certainly not limited to -- the computer chip itself).

How many microprocessors does the typical new car have? Thirty? Fifty? A hundred? More?
What’s your point?
 

code-m

macrumors 68000
Apr 13, 2006
1,838
1,430
Did you even bother to read the article?
I didn’t receive my one page PowerPoint brief on this today, my word limit maxes out pretty quickly ;)
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Even if built in the US, Apple still uses parts sourced from China.

Even if only one part is sourced from China, the Mac Pro can't be built if the factory that makes that one part is closed due to the virus.

It's easy to see when products from Apple are being delayed but I think that the virus is probably affecting all products that depend on China.
I thought the 2019-nMP was too expensive for many, in any case why no extra components on hand, seems shortsighted tbh. Though no one could predict for a temporary closure as a global company depending on components produced in one country does not seem like proper planning. Now if this closure was for 3 months that is different, seems Apple in all its wisdom forgot to diversify its supply chain.
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Seriously, you guys have to get off this. Electronics are going to have components sourced from China. It's what they do. Not everything can or even should be made in the USA. You do what makes sense. It makes no sense to re-invent the wheel.
As a global company maybe diversify its supply chain.
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"possibly because some components are still sourced from temporarily-closed suppliers in China."

speculate in the comments of an article that already speculated
Imagine if Apple was a pharmaceutical or vaccine supplier and depended on one manufacturer or company that all were isolated in one geographical location, not good business sense for a supply chain. Imagine if there was a natural disaster in China (can a virus be considered natural, maybe), we’ll all eggs in one Chinese basket.
 
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code-m

macrumors 68000
Apr 13, 2006
1,838
1,430
But as soon as the wheel was invented and put on a cart, the bearers that used to carry goods to market on their backs were put out of work.
The smart ones became cart operators, manufacturers, assemblers, repair persons, etc. More opportunity less physical brute labour.
 
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Are you willing to pay double the current price for a Mac to be built with all American sourced parts? Hmmmm?
I'm sorry, but there is no possible way that sourcing the parts for the MacPro from a country other than China would double its cost. Most of these components are made in automated facilities with little to no human involvement. The little there is, is not a serious actor in its cost. What there is though, is a commitment by China, Taiwan, Korea and others, to subsidize the cost of semiconductor fabs and provide financial assistance to employers to build advanced manufacturing facilities, whereas our government explicitly does not. The most we can get is localities giving tax breaks. We are stupid.
 
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jerryk

macrumors 603
Nov 3, 2011
5,486
2,746
SF Bay Area
The smart ones became cart operators, manufacturers, assemblers, repair persons, etc. More opportunity less physical brute labour.

Agreed. And the other ones just sat around and:
  • complained about being laid off,
  • how things where better in the "old days",
  • and how the world is going down the tubes.
 

code-m

macrumors 68000
Apr 13, 2006
1,838
1,430
Agreed. And the other ones just sat around and:
  • complained about being laid off,
  • how things where better in the "old days",
  • and how the world is going down the tubes.
lol, true and the same complainers will consume the products and rewards of those enhancements/advancements. Hypocrites :p

Stop XYZ, but I need this new phone, outfit, etc to post on social media so people know I am taking a stand against XYZ. Many people are more noise than action.
 

sideshowuniqueuser

macrumors regular
Mar 20, 2016
198
216
I run a small business manufacturing scientific toys in China, we have the factory in China build the toys for $5-7 per unit (shipped by sea), and sell the toy for $29.95-$49.95 on Amazon. My brother and I inherited it from our late father. First thing we did was look into sourcing from a US factory. The most cost effective build was $14/unit (when you factor in US trucking instead of China shipping)... the Canada quote was at $11/unit... both the US and Canada factories would need to source certain parts from China because the subcomponent parts are simply not made/shipped here, either they never were or they no longer are.

Apple deals with this on a massive scale, but us little guys have the same problem... even if you want it "Made in America", don't be surprised when something inside the product isn't from here.
Thanks Blackstick!

Are you having delivering delays due to the virus? How bad is the effect on delivery? Asking because we are starting up an import business and lining up to make our first order, so wondering how bad the delays will be.

Also, was there a quality difference between the China made and American/Canadian made?
 
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centauratlas

macrumors 65816
Jan 29, 2003
1,162
1,659
Florida
I have to add that when (for example) US auto makers started producing poor quality, more expensive products in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, they left the door wide open for foreign auto makers - Asian, German etc - to come in. It wasn't just the politicians and CEOs, it was also the unions who were demanding unsustainable wages for inferior work. Competition nearly destroyed them because it became clear that the average person didn't want to pay a premium for a problematic item.

Just one example. My parents had always bought American cars. The last two American made cars they bought were duds - one leaked and the Ford dealer's reply was that, "well, everything leaks" and the Buick would always stall if you went to accelerate quickly when it was cold out. The Buick dealer, said, we'll they all do that from the factory. They didn't buy American made cars again for 30 plus years. It is of course anecdotal, but I am sure a lot of other people did the same.
 
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Blackstick

macrumors 6502a
Aug 11, 2014
599
2,388
Sunny South Florida
Thanks Blackstick!

Are you having delivering delays due to the virus? How bad is the effect on delivery? Asking because we are starting up an import business and lining up to make our first order, so wondering how bad the delays will be.

Also, was there a quality difference between the China made and American/Canadian made?
Hi there sideshow,

So far our order for April remains on schedule, our factory is about 1200km from Wuhan, but it's being closely monitored and there are mandatory curfews and a lot of entertainment venues/non-essential services have temporarily closed.

As for our Chinese-made product versus the American/Canadian prototypes, no major differences, except it's much easier to work with electronics engineers that speak fluent english - even with interpreters it's difficult to cross the language divide without many revisions. We found it helpful to enlist an engineer in California to do our circuit designs and send them over to China, much less issue. In that sense, much like Apple, we're "designed in California, made in China."
 
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Ronlap

macrumors regular
Sep 7, 2007
224
159
San Francisco Bay Area
Well sir, it seems like hundreds of companies got bi***-slapped over their supply chain foibles. I would be looking at firing a bunch of risk managers right about now. As for Apple, isn't Tim Cook their supply chain wunderkind? I guess it's time to let some other nations try to be the world's supplier?

But meanwhile, look at all of the news coverage about how no US manufacturer makes N95 masks. Bummer, dude. Hope we never have to fight against the countries that supply our military and health needs.
 
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SSDGUY

macrumors 6502a
Jul 27, 2009
550
642
just buy a new iMac with the i9 processor and the Vega 48 video card option and SAVE YOURSELF a TON of CASH with close performance

I just found out that my iMac can take 128GB of RAM. originally when I bought the machine I thought only 64GB. 128GB ram in a regular iMac not a iMac Pro is an awesome future proof machine
True, until your start-up drive fails and you have to send it in, or enjoy the 43 step process to disassemble, then reassemble. :( https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+Retina+5K+Display+Hard+Drive+Replacement/30522
 

markcres

macrumors 6502
Mar 30, 2006
293
107
UK
Not everything can or even should be made in the USA. You do what makes sense. It makes no sense to re-invent the wheel.
Clearly you are wrong. Putting all your eggs in a single basket is a risky thing. If there was diversification of geographical manufacturing an outbreak of disease in China would not hinder the supply chain. China is only chosen for manufacturing all electrical components because it gives companies like Apple low wage slave labour with no Human rights and an iron fist of a communist government to control it.
 
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GooeyGUI

macrumors newbie
Feb 14, 2019
5
2
I thought they we're gonna start building these in Austin, TX? Hopefully this is another event that will start that process rolling again, as unfortunate as the outbreak has been. I just want to buy a US manufactured desktop and right now only Raptor Computing is giving me that option, albeit at a higher price per performance.
 

citysnaps

macrumors 603
Oct 10, 2011
5,479
8,706
San Francisco
I thought they we're gonna start building these in Austin, TX? Hopefully this is another event that will start that process rolling again, as unfortunate as the outbreak has been. I just want to buy a US manufactured desktop and right now only Raptor Computing is giving me that option, albeit at a higher price per performance.
That is correct - that's where the MacPro is assembled.
 

kemal

macrumors 68000
Dec 21, 2001
1,561
1,703
Nebraska
Possibly, the assembly in Texas requires grinding the motherboard to make it fit. They may have run out of dust masks. Or thoughtfully sent them to China.
 

Tech198

macrumors G5
Mar 21, 2011
14,347
1,745
Australia, Perth
"The reason for the delays is unconfirmed, but it could be related to the Wuhan coronavirus outbreak in China that has forced many of Apple's suppliers to temporarily close their factories and suspend production."

could be.

It's soo catching even media reports can't tip-toe around it. I guess that's a good thing.
 

sideshowuniqueuser

macrumors regular
Mar 20, 2016
198
216
Hi there sideshow,

So far our order for April remains on schedule, our factory is about 1200km from Wuhan, but it's being closely monitored and there are mandatory curfews and a lot of entertainment venues/non-essential services have temporarily closed.

As for our Chinese-made product versus the American/Canadian prototypes, no major differences, except it's much easier to work with electronics engineers that speak fluent english - even with interpreters it's difficult to cross the language divide without many revisions. We found it helpful to enlist an engineer in California to do our circuit designs and send them over to China, much less issue. In that sense, much like Apple, we're "designed in California, made in China."
Great, thanks Blackstick!
 

AureliaC

macrumors newbie
Feb 18, 2020
4
0
Toronto
I didn’t receive my one page PowerPoint brief on this today, my word limit maxes out pretty quickly ;)
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I thought the 2019-nMP was too expensive for many, in any case why no extra components on hand, seems shortsighted tbh. Though no one could predict for a temporary closure as a global company depending on components produced in one country does not seem like proper planning. Now if this closure was for 3 months that is different, seems Apple in all its wisdom forgot to diversify its supply chain.
- - Post merged: - -



As a global company maybe diversify its supply chain.
- - Post merged: - -



Imagine if Apple was a pharmaceutical or vaccine supplier and depended on one manufacturer or company that all were isolated in one geographical location, not good business sense for a supply chain. Imagine if there was a natural disaster in China (can a virus be considered natural, maybe), we’ll all eggs in one Chinese basket.
Actually, a lot of generic drugs and vaccines and medical devices and parts *are* manufactured in China --- only in China, sole-sourced. And yes it is a nightmare for the healthcare community, witness the recent problems with generic Losartan hypertension meds, the Chinese version used a different method of making the drug and the result was that the generics contained a small amount of a cancer causing chemical. Name brand of it was unaffected because the manufacturer made it in Spain, and used the original technique to manufacturer the active ingredient.

We (the US, Canada and Europe) have had a lot of generic and name brand drug shortages due to a insurance demands to cut prices on generics and they should be lower cost, but there is a floor to lowering prices, and especially for sterile injectable drugs in glass bottles or vaccines which have to be made in the country they are being used in, or for sterile IV fluids which expire faster, so can't be shipped and which require different standards than oral meds, and there are serious problems with manufacturers depending on factories or even just ONE factory in one country only. China or India or Vietnam or drugs made in North America.

I may have to wait for my MacBook Pro to arrive, but I'll live, that said, it's the most expensive Mac laptop I've ever ordered, so yes, I expect more and wish they had thought of double sourcing parts.

The dependence on one country only to make all our drugs as cheaply as possible with almost no testing, checking for standards, IS going to kill someone, somewhere.

Sometimes cheap upfront costs way way
too much in the end.
 

code-m

macrumors 68000
Apr 13, 2006
1,838
1,430
Actually, a lot of generic drugs and vaccines and medical devices and parts *are* manufactured in China --- only in China, sole-sourced. And yes it is a nightmare for the healthcare community, witness the recent problems with generic Losartan hypertension meds, the Chinese version used a different method of making the drug and the result was that the generics contained a small amount of a cancer causing chemical. Name brand of it was unaffected because the manufacturer made it in Spain, and used the original technique to manufacturer the active ingredient.

We (the US, Canada and Europe) have had a lot of generic and name brand drug shortages due to a insurance demands to cut prices on generics and they should be lower cost, but there is a floor to lowering prices, and especially for sterile injectable drugs in glass bottles or vaccines which have to be made in the country they are being used in, or for sterile IV fluids which expire faster, so can't be shipped and which require different standards than oral meds, and there are serious problems with manufacturers depending on factories or even just ONE factory in one country only. China or India or Vietnam or drugs made in North America.

I may have to wait for my MacBook Pro to arrive, but I'll live, that said, it's the most expensive Mac laptop I've ever ordered, so yes, I expect more and wish they had thought of double sourcing parts.

The dependence on one country only to make all our drugs as cheaply as possible with almost no testing, checking for standards, IS going to kill someone, somewhere.

Sometimes cheap upfront costs way way
too much in the end.
The question not being asked is why the dependency on so many drugs, for some granted it’s necessary but for most it’s over and easily prescribed and over used. There is also the question of laws for pricing, etc but I am not going to get into it. A healthier lifestyle will reduce ones requirement for drugs, it can and has been done. Most people just look for a simple solution.