New Mac Pro thread (merged)

[Derpage]

ooooooh, a whole $3 out of over $430. Biiiiiiig drop. THAT'LL show em!!!

Your fanboy troll routine needs work. I'd suggest working smaller venues until you are ready for the big times.

 

[Howdee]

The new MacPro is a BEAST!!!!!!!

Can't imagine the cost of it and what one could get if they were to create their own build and run Linux on it.. that would be a beast too.

 

[KaraH]

ooooooh, a whole $3 out of over $430. Biiiiiiig drop. THAT'LL show em!!!

A company is expected to go up when they do a big dog and pony show. Yes, a 3$ variance on a normal day is just that, random variance (well, unless it is constantly doing that). Going down on a day you would expect it to go up ... on a day like that the number is much less important than that there was ANY loss in value.

If you had five figures or more invested in AAPL, had seen it rocket to over 700, then back under 400 in less than six months, and understood how much Wall Street perception affects the value of the stock, as opposed to the reality of the "numbers," you'd be singing a different tune. Apple needed to knock one out of the park today, not with the Pro, but all of the other products. That did not happen.

Yeah, I already got teased by my brother in law for not selling when it peaked. On one hand right now it is just abstract numbers, but when I retire what those numbers are will take on a lot of significance.

I think this might be exactly what Apple is looking for. -> More customers on the medium end - opposed to fewer customer on the very high end.

Dont forget guys, its a shareholders game here. They want to make money. It just happens to be that they are somehow into computers.... coincidentally..

The MP, unlike the iToys, is not a volume seller though. Apple does not make as much direct money from it as they do from having it (ie, direct vs indirect value). So to try to squeeze every cent from your direct returns while scuttling your indirect ones is losing money both ways. It is never going to do as much volume as the iMac so why eliminate the very usefulness it has in the first place?

 

[deconstruct60]

(hint: TB chips are switched to the same 8x PCIe lanes due to PCIe lane limits in LGA2011 <40 lanes total; 32 for GPU's, 8 for TB>).

don't forget the storage drive is also now a direct PCI-e consumer. ( they may have grossly oversuscribed the IOHub with two TB controllers though. That wouldn't surprise me. )


Really kind of a really head scratch design when the C600 chipset is sitting inside the same box with 10 SATA lanes available and Apple skips all of them to go to PCI-e storage card on even more switched PCI-e lanes . The IOHub is bought and almost 100% by-passed except for its x8 PCI-e lanes. (just one Ethernet socket and Audio I/O probably. ) USB controller and SATA controller completely idle.

 

[initialsBB]

I was pretty shocked when I first saw this... Then pictured my Mac Pro cut down by 87% it's volume and was no longer shocked but stunned. I didn't imagine this at all.
This machine will be an interstellar rocket ship for FCP X and OpenCL apps. But that PCIe SSD looks pretty expensive €/GB and I guess we'll have to see if BlackMagic update Da Vinci for OpenCL (possible) or Adobe bring more support for it (seems unlikely), or if an nVidia option is proposed come shipping time.
Last question is the graphics card format. Looking at the new Mac Pro site through my iPhone I can't see from the animated sequence what the connectors are, but it doesn't look standard. Maybe it is PCI but reengineered a bit like they did for the SATA connectors for mSATA storage boards on laptop motherboards (standard SATA, non standard connector).

I want one on my desk though. It looks badass.

 

[SockRolid]

OK there it is! What do you think? IMO that's odd, design wise, but refreshing. Like a throwback to the old NeXT cube.

Long overdue, but more or less in line with what I was hoping for.
Core unit with limited internal expandability, Thunderbolt and legacy (FireWire)
external expandability. But man, it's way smaller than I was expecting.
And that probably requires fans. Hoping the fans are ultra-quiet.

Also, does anyone think that the glossy metal finish could appear on other
Apple products eventually? Is it time for shiny MacBook Pros/Airs? iPads? iPhones?

 

[zephonic]

 

[thefredelement]

I'll use my 2009 until it drops or becomes counter cost-effective to repair/upgrade it.

I think this new form factor and graphics options will probably go through a few revisions/versions/updates before it hits the sweet spot.

I don't see why they couldn't keep the internal expandability of the current Mac Pro form factor and drop in the new tech in a new shell.

It would have been cool if they started this update on the Mac mini side, then perfected it and transitioned it to the Mac Pro...

 

[Tesselator]

Well said.

Thanks.

Not sure about Apple saving money with propriety technology, though .
Unless they count on selling lots of propriety upgrades and replacement parts in the long run, and TB really taking off - a big IF - Apple would have saved a bundle by just updating the old MP with industry standard parts , maybe a new case, I think .

Wel it looks to me like they just cut the cost of producing (manufacturing, assembling, and shipping) a "Mac Pro" in HALF or very near to it. So that's what I mean by saving money or as I actually said "cutting costs".

One thing is certain, the end user will pay dearly for propriety parts and switching to TB where necessary/possible ; that's one of the reasons they might well loose some/much of the original MP market .

Yup, every new tech generates a lot of new purchases. A fact I believe Apple is counting on.

As for the new (sub)market you mentioned, it all depends on pricing .
But how low can Apple go, or rather for how long do they want to go low, for a base model that has to be attractive for current iMac customers, who'd rather have a headless Mac, only with more oomph and sockets than a Mini ?

Well, by sub-market I meant users who need that speed yet don't have the need for internal upgradability. So far the Workstation market has demanded these things. Without them Apple has officially removed themselves from that market segment. Or at the very least is attempting to redefine it is the ways you see on their intro page.

It won't be in competition with the Mini or the iMacs but no one can argue that it certainly has taken a step in that general direction.

The announced specs for the new MP are ambitious; if the actual product gets anywhere near that power in base configuration, I don't know how Apple is going to make a profit in that dubious consumer/prosumer market.

I don't think these specs are "ambitious" in any way. We could call them "modern" or "current" and not be wrong though.

The bulk buyers for high performance workstations are probably lost now, but those never worried about OSX anyways, and could have picked any system . But still, good money, and steady . Gone .
Other bulk buyers, they get iMacs anyways, or switch to Windows, if their system guy has any sense .

I'm not sure what you mean exactly, what are "bulk buyers"? But I have to disagree about recommending Windows. I won't repeat any of that here but the pros and cons of Windows and OS X have been compared to death already and are well know (I would hope).

It's a cute little product. If the price is right I may buy one. If I were still operating a render farm these might be perfect in fact - again, if the price is right. CUDA cores from dual GPUs (when they release an NVidia model), a very small footprint, looks like low power requirements, heck ya. Let's say 12 of these babies and a half a rack of used XServe gear as a file-server.

 

[SockRolid]

I want one on my desk though. It looks badass.

Agree. The old Mac Pro was always more or less an under-desk machine.
The new one, if it's quiet enough, could be a desktop machine.

Alas, even the old Mac Pro is drastic overkill for my modest Xcode projects.
40K lines, for example. Compiles in seconds even on an old Core 2 Duo iMac.

 

[Tesselator]

[url=http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3775/9011275392_7b42c24ab5_c.jpg]Image[/url]

I think it looks more like a coke can.

 

[SockRolid]

The irony of the Information Age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinion. - John Lawton, 1995 -

Thank you for that great quote!
I'll be sure to remember it and use it as necessary.
(And you wouldn't mind if I fact-check the attribution and date, would you?)

 

[IceMacMac]

apple has finally left the building. WTF is that thing....

Stove Jobs is rolling on his grave.

On the contrary, I think it's very much something Jobs would have signed off on. Apple has been moving to this for a long time.

Smaller. Check.
Less extensible. Check.
Sleek. Check.

Apple will sell a ton of these. Way more than the MacPro we've had for the past five years. I just don't see myself getting one without upgradeable GPU and without CUDA.

 

[deconstruct60]

If Apple offers an array of relatively affordable TB expansion boxes -- a 2-slot PCIe and a 2-bay 3.5" at least --

Highly doubtful given two things.

1. The free standing cylindrical design.

If rebelling against rectangular boxes why go back and build one as external box. Especially when ....


2. They can leave it as a 3rd party opportunity. So Apple doesn't have to.


I think Apple expects a fairly high percentage of these to be sold to folks who won't add an external box. Or at least an external box they haven't already bought for their mini , iMac , and/or MBP.

I think Apple fully expects many of the folks with 4+ PCI-e cards and 6 disks jammed into the Mac Pro to go away and play in a different sandbox.
They aren't going to come chasing after them with external rectangular boxes.

So far, Apple's just put out a $50 TB cable and left the rest to to chance.

They did the FW and Ethernet dongles too. And don't forget their TB docking station (display). This is desing to fit on top of the desk. Exactly where the fixed, "can't reach the floor" length cable attached to the docking station can reach.

I don't think it's really worked out that well. If they are serious about external expansion, as this 6-TB port design implies, then they will need to do a lot more than that.

Honestly, 2-3 of those ports are there because legacy video devices will demand them. They actually taken away of the edge connectors on the video card too. Throw in drives , FW, and GPU edge connectors and not really are large number.

 

[theopticnerve]

I wonder if the peripherals will be updated? This black cylinder would make the current aluminum keyboards look too funky. A black backlit keyboard perhaps? Black trackpad?

 

[Tesselator]

Agree. The old Mac Pro was always more or less an under-desk machine.
The new one, if it's quiet enough, could be a desktop machine.

I wonder how long it will be before some witty parts manufacturer figures out that the machine itself will make a perfect monitor stand? Just need a belt, an articulated arm, and a 4-hole mounting bracket.

 

[zephonic]

thank you for that great quote!
I'll be sure to remember it and use it as necessary.
(and you wouldn't mind if i fact-check the attribution and date, would you?)

lol

 

[deconstruct60]

But man, it's way smaller than I was expecting.
And that probably requires fans. Hoping the fans are ultra-quiet.

Apple's description page says there is one and only one fan. I don't care how "magical" the fan is. Coupled to the top end dual pair of GPUs that are suppose to hit 8 TFLOPs we'll see if it can keep up if tasked with a 10-18 hour computational run.

It is a much bigger diameter fan than any of the previous ones though, but having to cool two GPUs and the CPU seems like a large workload increase too.

I don't think it will get very loud... just that the thermal regulators in the GPUs and CPU will put the brakes on after a while.

 

[KaraH]

It would have been cool if they started this update on the Mac mini side, then perfected it and transitioned it to the Mac Pro...

The minis are supposed to update this year as well, I suppose I will see what is in the mini 2013 before I pull the trigger. The biggest no WAY about the mini was no removable GPU and now the MP no longer is ahead in that area.

What is the point of a powerful box if you are hamstrung in what you can do with it? Apple is probably going to lose the low end of the MP to the mini if they finally do something about the GPU on it.

 

[deconstruct60]

I guess Fusion Drives won't be an option on these.

Preconfigured from Apple? No. Which is quite odd. Perhaps indicative they think that Fusion Drive is a transitory thing they will support for a limited amount of time.

However, there is nothing that really stops someone from creating a "Fusion Drive" in an external box.

 

[Howdee]

I'll use my 2009 until it drops or becomes counter cost-effective to repair/upgrade it.

I think this new form factor and graphics options will probably go through a few revisions/versions/updates before it hits the sweet spot.

I don't see why they couldn't keep the internal expandability of the current Mac Pro form factor and drop in the new tech in a new shell.

It would have been cool if they started this update on the Mac mini side, then perfected it and transitioned it to the Mac Pro...

With the Pro they can charge a premium for it.

Mac Mini is half the price or 1/3rd isn't it?

Apple is about $$$

 

[FluJunkie]

Looking at the Apple site, which has more detail, it looks like the RAM will be easy enough to get to, and the SSD is the "blade" style configuration, which means there's likely room for expansion/replacement.

External HDDs will be irksome, but might get me off my ass to go full NAS.

My real concern is the GPUs. With the "unified thermal core" and the graphics so far, those look like custom jobs. Not only would I prefer an nVidia option (what can I say, I like CUDA), but the FirePros will, I suspect, be optimized for graphics work.

Which means they're optimized neither for scientific computing, nor particularly good for the occasional gaming I do on my machine. A machine with a Titan would make a much better "middle ground" for me than that offering, and two FirePros is a major driver of price.

 

[deconstruct60]

Does anyone have an inclination as to whether the graphics cards will be removable/upgradeable?

If they are highly proprietary does that really matter or make a difference ?


Things were heading in the direction where Mac Pro GPU cards didn't have to be price substantially different than WinPC targeted ones. That has basically made a U-turn in the completely opposite direction. Apple moving to FirePro is going to provide "air cover" for the associated price increase.... but it won't be surprising to see a bunch of "holy cow" comments posted after the BTO confiigs go live later this year.

----------

Which means they're optimized neither for scientific computing, nor particularly good for the occasional gaming I do on my machine. A machine with a Titan would make a much better "middle ground" for me than that offering, and two FirePros is a major driver of price.

The numbers that Apple quotes is pretty close to 2 FirePro 9000's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#FirePro_Workstation_Series

Those have ECC RAM and dual is around 8 TFLOPs (around 4 each) is hardly un-omptized for scientific computing. OpenCL ( not CUDA) required for building blocks but Apple helped create OpenCL...... over time I think they want it to 'win'.

I suspect with the shared thermal solution that if jammed two custom 9000 equivalents in there though that can't also have the highest TDP CPU option.
That would likely be one of the motivators as to why Apple is going to control the configs.

It is nice design but random folks throwing TDP into a shared resource and not particularly paying attention to what they are doing would be bad.

 

[tekboi]

Can't imagine the cost of it and what one could get if they were to create their own build and run Linux on it.. that would be a beast too.

I like Linux and all, but it doesn't have the same support as Windows and OS X. It's a nice OS to tinker with though...

 

[ABCDEF-Hex]

I really respect your opinions and postings - but

Apple's description page says there is one and only one fan. I don't care how "magical" the fan is. Coupled to the top end dual pair of GPUs that are suppose to hit 8 TFLOPs we'll see if it can keep up if tasked with a 10-18 hour computational run.

It is a much bigger diameter fan than any of the previous ones though, but having to cool two GPUs and the CPU seems like a large workload increase too.

I don't think it will get very loud... just that the thermal regulators in the GPUs and CPU will put the brakes on after a while.

You seem to be implying that the Apple engineers just slapped this thing together and it won't function properly?