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don't forget the storage drive is also now a direct PCI-e consumer. ( they may have grossly oversuscribed the IOHub with two TB controllers though. That wouldn't surprise me. )
SSD will definitely be attached to the I/O Hub (chipset), not the designer configurable PCIe lanes in the PCIe controller.

So I still expect the lanes the designers had to work with are in a 2* 16x config for the GPU's, and remaining 8x lanes run to a switch, which is tied to the 3x TB2 chips.

Possible one of the TB chips is tied to the I/O Hub, but it wouldn't make as much sense to me vs. tying all of them to a switch, and using the I/O Hub for everything else that's not TB on the I/O panel (better use of the I/O Hub's PCIe lanes, as they'd choke anyway on everything that's connected running simultaneously - keeping a TB chip off of these would help with this issue, particularly given the SATA channel in use is attached to an SSD).

Really kind of a really head scratch design when the C600 chipset is sitting inside the same box with 10 SATA lanes available and Apple skips all of them to go to PCI-e storage card on even more switched PCI-e lanes . The IOHub is bought and almost 100% by-passed except for its x8 PCI-e lanes. (just one Ethernet socket and Audio I/O probably. ) USB controller and SATA controller completely idle.
Not so much in my mind, as they're clearly interested in making their designs as small as possible. So based on that logic, I don't see skipping vast swaths of features in the I/O Hub a stretch at all.

Well it looks to me like they just cut the cost of producing (manufacturing, assembling, and shipping) a "Mac Pro" in HALF or very near to it. So that's what I mean by saving money or as I actually said "cutting costs". :)
It wouldn't save that much, but it's there, particularly on the case. SSD is at least as expensive as a larger mechanical HDD, so not a huge change there. GPU's are doubled up, so there's actually an increase for this aspect. CPU is what it is, for the selected socket size. Probably a bit on the PSU, but nothing drastic (assumes the system will only be a single socket, and the 12 cores is either due to virtual cores, or waiting for Xeon Ivy Bridge to ship).

Yup, every new tech generates a lot of new purchases. A fact I believe Apple is counting on. ;)
Exactly. This thing is clearly aimed at trying to pull the enthusiast user back to Mac IMHO (HDMI port is a major clue).


I don't think these specs are "ambitious" in any way. We could call them "modern" or "current" and not be wrong though. :)
I agree entirely.

Even the cooling system isn't new. Been around since at least the '80's, particularly in power electronics. Even Krell used this back then as a means of cooling the power transistors in their amplifiers, so "new tech" ? Not by a long shot. :mad:

If I were still operating a render farm these might be perfect in fact - again, if the price is right. CUDA cores from dual GPUs (when they release an NVidia model), a very small footprint, looks like low power requirements, heck ya. Let's say 12 of these babies and a half a rack of used XServe gear as a file-server.
It's not a good fit for this IMHO, due to the necessitation of using TB to xx network adapter (10G Ethernet, FC, or IB), to get a faster network connection. And if it's attached to it's own DAS storage pool, the TB connections will be slowed even further, as they're ultimately sharing the same PCIe connection (switched in the TB chip if attached to the same one, or via a PCIe switch if each device is attached to a different TB chip; either way, you can easily run into a bottleneck in such a configuration). :(

The new one, if it's quiet enough, could be a desktop machine.
Given it's cooling configuration, I wouldn't be too sure on this. Especially if it's being run near, or at it's limits, as the fan would have to race up to a high rpm to push sufficient air flow over the aluminum extrusion.

Keep in mind, it's realistic for the cooling system to have to push out ~430W of heat under full load (figuring on 150W per GPU + 130W for the CPU at max TDP = 430W). That's a lot of heat for a single cooling system to have to move, and an extrusion isn't as thermally efficient as other cooling techniques, such as heat pipes + fins + forced air exchange system or plates (liquid cooling).

So only realistic way to avoid an overheating issue in their design, is by ramping the fan. Even at say 6 inches in diameter, you'll still be able to hear it due to the rpm necessary to dump that much heat.

On the contrary, I think it's very much something Jobs would have signed off on. Apple has been moving to this for a long time.
Exactly.

Anyone recall the "trucks" statement Jobs' made when talking about desktops/workstations?
 
Worse, now if any of it goes bad the whole thing goes in the shop. This is what annoys me the most. Lose a GPU and whole thing is in the shop, internal storage goes bad, off to the shop,....

The storage card is removable. It is mounted outside edge of one of the GPU cards. Can you find another one to put in probably is initially an issue as they are likely custom/proprietary form factor.


lose the fan.... well you get the picture.

if the fan is a non standard part even if you could remove it ... can't replace it.



Why do I think they had the enclosure drawn well before engineering got into the picture?

Actually it seems a bit of typically Apple Scrooge McDuck of wanting to use common parts in multiple places. Once decided that the GPU and CPU cards have to use the same heat sink they collapse onto each other either into a rectange or the triangle they used. From the triangle getting to the round cylinder shape isn't that big of a leap. Capping the top with a fan is also going to push the round shape.


I suspect it didn't go all one way or the other. but round is a pretty odd shape to start from. There are not other round Apple devices now. ( hockey puck mouse excluded as an item from history books. ).
 
This looks like a major step forward for my pro work. I think a lot of the sky is falling crowd is making some crazy unfounded assumptions. And I'm sure for some folks it won't meet their specific needs. Note, if it doesn't meet your needs, you are probably not a part of the market apple is focusing on with its mac pro.

As for the audio users complaining about no firewire 800. Firewire is ancient. It's really the slowest thing on the market now. SCSI was a thing once too. Those items might be in my basement somewhere. Firewire 800 will be in your basement somewhere as well. All old tech eventually dies to make way to newer and better tech.

Admittedly, this mac pro looks like a lot of the custom stuff boxes that people have been experimenting with for the last few years in the case mod world. Round has always had a certain appeal for air flow purposes.
 
You seem to be implying that the Apple engineers just slapped this thing together and it won't function properly?

No. I'm saying that folks who are looking at this marketing spin list where Apple says "up to 8 TFLOPs" and "up to 12 cores". I'm not sure it is going to do both. It is definitely not a box that is going to do "everything".

There thermal dissipation system they have set up probably has a budget that the configurations have to work inside of. That budget doesn't have to include everything and the kitchen sink as far as BTO options go. That isn't a knock on engineering. It is what it is.

The older design had more "give" where the user could just crank the multiple fans higher for their own "experimental" configurations. There is going to be a limit to how much you can crank up just one solitary fan.

The CPU and GPU are also more coupled. Apple's page says it is a good thing that when the CPU isn't producing alot of heat the GPUs get more head room. That's right and for many users it will lead to better balance. But for the folks who push the envelope, a hotter than designed for CPU will impact the GPUs. It is not a Dr. Frankenstein run experiments in the basement box.
 
face palm

it may get a new market, but the users that upgrade often - which is why we buy a Mac with a 4-5 year plan - will be disappointed.

Fotunately for Apple, the volumes and expense are small enough that it can see this through it's failure over the first 3 years, until we all just have to upgrade from our 2012 MP's. I've been waiting and waiting for a new MP, to upgrade from a maxed-out 2008. Was hoping for (size didn't matter) 2 or 4 12-cores, decent video cards, no fewer drive bays, 2.5" bays for SSD. I'll wait for the release of this - it is beautiful to look at - but I'll be snapping up a 2nd user 12-core MP if I can find one.

What may save this is if the price is below that for a small iMac.
 
Apple made fun of the BSOD in the Finder, it would be fair for MS to return the favor..

MSMacProbin_zpsaef5eb7b.jpg
 
face palm

it may get a new market, but the users that upgrade often - which is why we buy a Mac with a 4-5 year plan - will be disappointed.

Fotunately for Apple, the volumes and expense are small enough that it can see this through it's failure over the first 3 years, until we all just have to upgrade from our 2012 MP's. I've been waiting and waiting for a new MP, to upgrade from a maxed-out 2008. Was hoping for (size didn't matter) 2 or 4 12-cores, decent video cards, no fewer drive bays, 2.5" bays for SSD. I'll wait for the release of this - it is beautiful to look at - but I'll be snapping up a 2nd user 12-core MP if I can find one.

What may save this is if the price is below that for a small iMac.

I think you're very wrong about the "failure" part... I think this is going to dramatically outsell its predecessors.
 
New Mac Pro Accessories

Not sure if you guys saw this yet, but Apple Store just posted this Belkin attachment in the store.

yZ36BHs.jpg


Jokes aside, I am NOT going to miss FireWire one bit. That was one godawful technology. 400 was flaky as can be and countless people were shorting out their devices by inserting it backward (*yes* it's possible, I worked with one idiot who did it twice that I know of) and the 800 was impossible to plug in (due to the re-design because people were putting them in backward). RIP firewire. I'll never ever visit your grave.
 
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I found their preliminary design:

HAHAHAHAHA. Ive wanted a mac pro forever and whether or not I get this will be 100% based on price. But the fact that people keep saying they waited all this time and apple gave them a trash can cracks me the hell up hahahaha.
 
SSD will definitely be attached to the I/O Hub (chipset), not the designer configurable PCIe lanes in the PCIe controller.

I think you are confused. It is a PCI-e SSD; not a SATA one. There is absolutely nothing attached to the IOHub's 10 SATA ports. Zip. Nada. It is just sitting there entirely idle. Same thing with the chipsets USB 2.0 implementation. Idle.

If SATA is being dumped because it is "too slow" why also go "too slow" with PCI-e v2.0 lanes rather than use the E5's v3.0 lanes. Frankly, Thunderbolt is a mismatch to the E5's v3.0 lanes since it is stuck at v2.0. You would want to do as few as possible TB controllers since they'd just waste bandwidth. ( I guess throwing away the 10 SATA sets a precedence but not sure why want to add to that).

Two Ethernet ( two 1x v2.0 lanes )
Bluetooth/Wifi ( 1x v2.0 lane )
USB 3.0 4 port controller ( 1x v2.0 lane )

and mostly done for IOHub's PCI-e work. ( I don't think the build in audio needs one. ). So have used all of 4. There are 4 lanes left. An exact fit to a TB controller.

On the E5 assignment could do a

TB controller --> x4 ( throttled to v2 )
TB controller / PCI-e SSD ---> switched on a x4 ( presuming can flip back to v3 when talking to SSD )
GPU --> x16 v3
GPU --> x16 v3

If the switch has to be in constant v2 mode then doesn't make much difference. The SSD is a bit throttled. If pick the switched TB controller that most folks will likey plug legacy Display Port video monitors into the switch will never "turn on to the TB controller".






So I still expect the lanes the designers had to work with are in a 2* 16x config for the GPU's, and remaining 8x lanes run to a switch, which is tied to the 3x TB2 chips.

The problem is that the competing workstation PCI-e SSDs are going to get plugged into v3.0 slots in their boxes; not v2.0. If can avoid that probably should. There is one and only one storage device. It better be special somehow. If it is lamer than what competitors are putting in their boxes the Mac Pro is going no where fast.


(better use of the I/O Hub's PCIe lanes, as they'd choke anyway on everything that's connected running simultaneously - keeping a TB chip off of these would help with this issue, particularly given the SATA channel in use is attached to an SSD).

The whole point is that the I/OHub is grossly under utilized. There are not SATA drives attached at all. All that potential SATA traffic that would have been soaking up traffic is in in deep hibernation. Likewise any USB 2.0 traffic.
 
A company is expected to go up when they do a big dog and pony show. Yes, a 3$ variance on a normal day is just that, random variance (well, unless it is constantly doing that). Going down on a day you would expect it to go up ... on a day like that the number is much less important than that there was ANY loss in value.

You obviously haven't been following AAPL for the last 10 years. That's now how it works.
 
I don't understand the cylinder design. Yes, it makes sense for cooling (high surface to volume ratio), but it is space wasting when more than one module is required (as will be the case with the new MP). From this POV, a better design would be to place the cylindrical cooling core inside a triangular base. This would make it possible to have add-on modules (e.g., multi-bay hdd enclosures, video card enclosures, additional CPUs) that blend seamlessly with the main CPU module. Instead, we're going to wind up with a mess of cylinders and cubes on/underneath our desks.
 
I think you are confused. It is a PCI-e SSD; not a SATA one. There is absolutely nothing attached to the IOHub's 10 SATA ports. Zip. Nada. It is just sitting there entirely idle. Same thing with the chipsets USB 2.0 implementation. Idle.

If SATA is being dumped because it is "too slow" why also go "too slow" with PCI-e v2.0 lanes rather than use the E5's v3.0 lanes. Frankly, Thunderbolt is a mismatch to the E5's v3.0 lanes since it is stuck at v2.0. You would want to do as few as possible TB controllers since they'd just waste bandwidth. ( I guess throwing away the 10 SATA sets a precedence but not sure why want to add to that).

Two Ethernet ( two 1x v2.0 lanes )
Bluetooth/Wifi ( 1x v2.0 lane )
USB 3.0 4 port controller ( 1x v2.0 lane )

and mostly done for IOHub's PCI-e work. ( I don't think the build in audio needs one. ). So have used all of 4. There are 4 lanes left. An exact fit to a TB controller.

On the E5 assignment could do a

TB controller --> x4 ( throttled to v2 )
TB controller / PCI-e SSD ---> switched on a x4 ( presuming can flip back to v3 when talking to SSD )
GPU --> x16 v3
GPU --> x16 v3

If the switch has to be in constant v2 mode then doesn't make much difference. The SSD is a bit throttled. If pick the switched TB controller that most folks will likey plug legacy Display Port video monitors into the switch will never "turn on to the TB controller".








The problem is that the competing workstation PCI-e SSDs are going to get plugged into v3.0 slots in their boxes; not v2.0. If can avoid that probably should. There is one and only one storage device. It better be special somehow. If it is lamer than what competitors are putting in their boxes the Mac Pro is going no where fast.




The whole point is that the I/OHub is grossly under utilized. There are not SATA drives attached at all. All that potential SATA traffic that would have been soaking up traffic is in in deep hibernation. Likewise any USB 2.0 traffic.

Good points. The new Mac Pro is not a fully functional desktop computer. It's another Apple Computing Appliance Thing, an arty niche product for an arty niche crowd. I feel like I was just served with divorce papers. Shocking but now I know the affair is really over so I can move on.
 
Yeah , me too , but maybe for different reasons .
Zero innovation, yet small size; limited expandability, compatibility and upgrade options, but supposedly more powerful - noone got it completely right .

This place was slagging Apple for ages many months ago saying Apple has lost it's innovation or they can no longer innovate. Doomed and all that.
 
Admittedly, this mac pro looks like a lot of the custom stuff boxes that people have been experimenting with for the last few years in the case mod world. Round has always had a certain appeal for air flow purposes.


Couldn't agree more ^
 
The New Mac Pro in summary

Those who haven't used a Pro Before:
Oh, *uck. I gotta get this one!!!

Those who's been using a Pro:
Oh, *uck!!!!!
 
It's perfect. I've always wanted an extremely powerful machine to use for video editing which is also small and portable, as I'm always on the road.

I edit via a Thunderbolt RAID anyway, so lack of internal storage isn't an issue.

I'll be buying this, provided it's not ridiculously expensive.
 
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