Oh no! The trip! You are right, of course. Maybe 'Magsafe TB' with 30GB of "Crash Cache". That'll solve it
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New Mac Pro thread (merged)
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Oh no! The trip! You are right, of course. Maybe 'Magsafe TB' with 30GB of "Crash Cache". That'll solve it
It's not 1/8th the size... it's 1/8th the volume which actually means that it's less than 1/8th the size when consider the shapes.
One reason is that the 3 TB controllers are hogging up a ton of PCI-e lanes needed for 10GbE. ( a dual port Intel X504 chip is going to want at least x4 PCI-e v2.0 to be minimally happy running both ports at 10Gb/s ). Apple's "answer" is buy 10GbE TB devices.
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echoexpressse_10gbeadapter.html
http://www.attotech.com/products/category.php?id=15&catid=16
That's why there are 6 TB ports ( and hence two GPUs which also consume lanes).
Between the two I think they are obviously biased on TB even though 10GbE is likely to grow about as fast as TB 2 over the next year (in terms of deployed ports).
Oh no! The trip! You are right, of course. Maybe 'Magsafe TB' with 30GB of "Crash Cache". That'll solve it
Ha !!!!!!!! =)
Not that I think you were serious, but no. The fact that intel bundles these specific SATA controllers into the chipset and makes everybody buy them makes them pretty cheap. The volume drives down "cost". I doubt the respective cost would pay for even one TB cable.
It isn't so much the "loss" of that money but the uneven costs have to pay to get it the equivalent back in an external box. It is not very efficient at all. Perhaps in an tick-tock iteration of to Intel will come out with the "I drink TB kool-aid by the gallon" alternative chipset that strips out all SATA functionality. (maybe 1GbE ethernet too by that point. ). If enough system vendors follow Apple they will. If not they'll just cash Apple's checks and Apple will just ignore it... almost free money in that context for Intel.
They design I suspect bascially hides were can attach the SATA device anyway.... that's why the storage device is attached to proprietary GPU card in this one. (although since propritary I guess could have run the SATA connection over there too...
[ Not sure but wouldn't be surprised if sharing bandwidth with the GPU card.... a PCI-e switch so as to simplify routing. The GPU card doesn't have SATA so PCI-e is closer. They didn't really care so much for PCI-e... it just works better for the self inflicted constraints. ]
Over time TB devices that collapse a couple of those connections into one box will appear. Also at least a couple of those connections already exist int he current Mac Pro.... they'll be TB ports used entirely in backwards compatible mode. Similar connection number as before but brought into a denser space on the back.
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Think its funny how the same people bitching about the new Pro and the same people who bitched about the rMPB.
Oh, user upgradable this, flash that.
The rMPB being hands down the best pro laptop on the market.
Oh, user upgradable this, flash that.
The rMPB being hands down the best pro laptop on the market.
I gotta believe there's a lot easier ways to make a computer cheaper than using virtually all non-standard parts to stuff inside a tube.
Yes, they did it save money and maximize profits. Everything about this machine costs less.
And it's not like whatever additional cost of a full-sized (full-featured) Mac Pro is being eaten by Apple. I think most people (certainly pros) can figure out if something is bigger/heavier it will cost more to ship, but they'll be the ones paying the shipping costs.
Warehouse costs, you do make a good point though. (Even so, not like Apple doesn't figure that into the product price).
Sure, in some specialized uses I'm sure it saves space. But in many other uses, you can't just cram 4 or 5 times the number of USERS into the same space just because they're using iTubes rather than the old MacPro-sized hardware.
You may be right, but I don't clearly see any such thing at face value. Standard arrangement of off the shelf hardware is much less complicated than an all-custom design with non-standard hardware, even for Apple. I'm not saying it's not a good design, just I'd have to see actual facts presented from those in the know that it's actually cheaper than a more standard build process that everyone (including Apple) have been using for years.
True, this is the one huge benefit I see; it may not please the traditional pro crowd fully, but I can see where lots of people who want more than an iMac or Mini, but don't need all the expansion features of the previous MacPro will be all over this. In that sense, I agree it's a smart move.
Just as always, I wish Apple could 'chew gum and walk at the same time'. That is, I wish they just put this out as the much sought after xMac (minus the workstation hardware) and *at the same time* just updated the MacPro in its current form.
So when do we get a mac pro announcement?
Seriously considering a mini now if it has a good next release. It is not like it could be any worse than today's trash can and I would actually have *2* drive bays via a data doubler.
I mean if I have to do everything via thunderbolt anyway ...
Seriously considering a mini now if it has a good next release. It is not like it could be any worse than today's trash can and I would actually have *2* drive bays via a data doubler.
I mean if I have to do everything via thunderbolt anyway ...
And just when we thought that getting a GTX Titan to run in real Mac Pro was an achievement - Who's in for de-casing a Titan and ensuring that they don't fry it in the preparation and installation process, if it will fit and can be secured? We're moving from the day of I'll upgrade it later myself to the day when what you see is what you get and what you'll always have until you buy the next latest and greatest system.
I love it!!! i hope it's really expensive so i'm not tempted to buy it cause i really don't need that kind of power. It does have a sexy trashcan/ash tray look to it though. wonder if i could put a drink on the top?
all expansion is through Thunderbolt 2. Is almost infinite with 6 TB ports. the problem is TB options are expensive and there are no TB 2 options.
I think it's funny all the hate that is going on toward the new Mac Pro.
I owned a 2010 Mac Pro base model, under full load its temperatures were rather cool compared to some overclocked PC's that I ran. With that being said, I want to point out that the current (soon to be previous gen) Mac Pro has a thermal cooling design geared toward G5 CPUs and early first gen Intel Xeon's which threw off a whole lot of heat. They were going to retire the big "atx style" case one of these days. Just so happened to be today. I say give it a chance, if it works out - awesome. If not, there are other vendors like Dell and HP that will sell you the same old rehashed box with new hardware.
I owned a 2010 Mac Pro base model, under full load its temperatures were rather cool compared to some overclocked PC's that I ran. With that being said, I want to point out that the current (soon to be previous gen) Mac Pro has a thermal cooling design geared toward G5 CPUs and early first gen Intel Xeon's which threw off a whole lot of heat. They were going to retire the big "atx style" case one of these days. Just so happened to be today. I say give it a chance, if it works out - awesome. If not, there are other vendors like Dell and HP that will sell you the same old rehashed box with new hardware.
Sure we do. The images clearly show a standard C13 A/C power plug on the back. That means it takes mains power with an internal power supply.
Naw, it's all about number of screws, number of pieces, and number of solder pads. Shape doesn't matter much. In fact this tube shape is actually easier to work with - from what I know about FA (factory automation).
Apple pays to ship the parts to their assembly plants, then to a warehouse after completed, then to stores or airports, if the later then also to warehouses and/or stores when they land. You only have to pay for the very last leg of distribution (from it's stored location to your front door).
No, no. Again it's all about the number of pieces, number of screws, number of cables needing to be attached, and so on. Look again.
- Where are the wiring harnesses? Vastly reduced!
- Where's the drive backplane? Gone.
- Sleds? Gone,
- 6 SATA headers, 4 SATA power headers? All gone,
- GPU cards, No longer hand fitted. Also probably manufactured internally and without the need for the power connectors, cables, heat-sinks, or fans.
- ODD drive doors? Gone!
- ODD cage? Gone,
- Rear expansion slot covers and screw? All gone,
- CPU heat-sinks, GPU heat-sinks, Chipset heat-sinks? All morphed into one and set up so that a robot can do it FA style.
- The 3 different port-out PWBs? Became one - even the AC power looks surfaced onto that same singular PWB,
- The card edge headers? Gone. this reduces a lot of expense in just this single exclusion.
- Third party fans? Only one is needed now. There are four on my MP and all are purchased from a 3rd party supplier.
Yup, a lot of intelligence has been applied to this machine. Now the only thing is to wait and see if it ultimately pays off for them.
Yeah, that's a question I have as well. If they don't intend to offer a dual CPU configuration then why use Xeon? It's useful in this design for something I'm spacing off or?
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Yeah, this one surprised me too. I was really expecting 10GbE which would be great for anyone using iSCSI for their storage. I guess a Thunderbolt 2 10GbE interface is feasible, but it seemed like an obvious pick to me to include in the base system. Apple was way ahead of the curve with Gigabit ethernet a decade ago and I sort of figured they'd follow that lead with 10GbE in the new Mac Pro. Weird decision.
Don't forget that now that Apple finally has ensured that the Mac Pro is not going away, we will actually see updates and revisions regularly again, so if this version isn't for you, at least there will probably be a 16 core version next year, or maybe even dual-processor versions or ones with I/O that will allow for full PCI speeds for external GPUs etc.
This is a revision 1 machine, and those always come with a few things 'missing'.
That said, i will still probably be upgrading to one!
This is a revision 1 machine, and those always come with a few things 'missing'.
That said, i will still probably be upgrading to one!
So proprietary hardware concerning. Proprietary software not concerning? CUDA is about as single vendor as Apple's custom cards are.
Like Apple's other embedded cards/implementations I don't think AMD/Nvidia has much of a hardware development role here.
The basic EFI issue is clearing up with Apple and UEFI (windows oriented boxes) both moving to the newer GOP ( Graphics Output Protocol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#Graphics_features )
This does slow down the underground "snarf ROMs and reflash" market though.
Stagnant growth ? They are kind of the opposites.
"no Adobe Flash on iOS" pushed HTML5 forward. Proprietary versus more open standard. Apple is typically going to take that position (when proprietary isn't their home grown agenda. )
unlike SCSI each device probably will do more than one thing. That should cut down on the number.
There is no announced TB v3. If TB adoptions doesn't radically shift gears I doubt there will be a TB v3. The primary driver of TB v2 seems to be 4K video. The is going to arrive and stay for a relatively long time. (yeah there is now ultra super duper K video now coming but .... folks are fooling themselves that is going to get widely adopted any time soon. )
TB v2 is just shuffling the deck chairs with no aggregate increase in bandwidth. It is just changing the assignment of how much PCI-e/DisplayPort data can be in the system at one time ( bonding two 10Gb/s channels that were already there into one logical 20Gb/s )
Unless affordable fiber comes, TB is likely to hit a wall at some point sooner rather than later.
YES! Was my thought as well. That is awesome!