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Ben1l

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 30, 2006
236
2
I'm very seriously considering buying one of the new MPs. Do we know yet, what we will, and won't, be able to upgrade after purchase. Funds are tight, so ideally I'd like to buy the mac, them maybe upgrade the RAM etc when I have some more money...
 

haravikk

macrumors 65816
May 1, 2005
1,494
21
You'll definitely be able to upgrade the RAM as it's just four regular slots, and it's probably the better option as Apple's RAM prices are always horrifying. With Mavericks you should get a bit more out of your RAM than before, and hopefully in future 32gb RAM modules will eventually reach the point at which mortals can afford them :)


I fully expect the SSD to be replaceable in future; probably not by Apple themselves but companies have released compatible modules in the past. This will be especially likely if the modules are similar to those in the new MacBook Pros.


GPUs however are uncertain; the connector and form factor are entirely proprietary, so it's hard to decide what the chances are of third parties making compatible upgrades. I'd say it's unlikely, but Apple might release new GPU boards as they're introduced on new models of Mac Pro, but I wouldn't count on it.


Otherwise all your upgrades have to come from Thunderbolt; through this you ought to be able to add extra external GPUs for OpenCL number crunching, faster high capacity storage etc. etc., and it's definitely something you want to do as far into the future as you can manage, as right now the prices are pretty extreme.
 
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Macsonic

macrumors 68000
Sep 6, 2009
1,627
63
I'm very seriously considering buying one of the new MPs. Do we know yet, what we will, and won't, be able to upgrade after purchase. Funds are tight, so ideally I'd like to buy the mac, them maybe upgrade the RAM etc when I have some more money...

Your choice of Mac may also depend on what tasks you will use the machine. If funds are tight, maybe consider a used Mac Pro or if your tasks may permit, an iMac which may come easy on your budget.
 
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Ben1l

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 30, 2006
236
2
You choice of Mac may also depend on what tasks you will use the machine. If funds are tight, maybe consider a used Mac Pro or if your tasks may permit, an iMac which may come easy on your budget.

a lot of video editing. It's the long render time and export times that are making me want to trade in my old mac pro for a new one.
 
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amack

macrumors member
Jun 14, 2006
57
15
Northern Ireland
You will be able to change the ram, Apple said so. You will be able to upgrade the SSD, it'll just need a specific connection and I would say shortly after it's official release OWC will have it and the blades for sale. The graphics card I would say will be user replaceable, it just remains to be seen what boards will be suitable. What else do people need to upgrade?
 
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thekev

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2010
6,920
3,227
Also, the CPU, unless Apple went to the trouble of using adhesion.

I kind of doubt this given the cost of some of the CTO cpus and the lower volume nature of the line.
 
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thekev

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2010
6,920
3,227
Why would CTO or line volume prevent one from dropping an E5-2680, etc. in to replace a quad in a nMP?

This is one of my half brain-dead days. I meant that the cost of the higher end cpus would likely dissuade them from using adhesive as it becomes more difficult to swap out cpus due to a change in order.
 
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macuser453787

macrumors 6502a
May 19, 2012
578
151
Galatians 3:13-14
Ram should be a straightforward upgrade and you almost certainly won't have to pay Apple's prices.

You will be able to change the ram, Apple said so. You will be able to upgrade the SSD, it'll just need a specific connection and I would say shortly after it's official release OWC will have it and the blades for sale.

And IIRC, OWC RAM will also be available for nMP.
 
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flat five

macrumors 603
Feb 6, 2007
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newyorkcity
it's hard to come up with a logical scenario as to why apple won't allow for and even encourage people to upgrade their gpus on this thing..

spend 4k on a computer.. in 3 years spend 2k on new gpus.. in two more years, repeat cycle.
 
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MacVidCards

Suspended
Nov 17, 2008
6,096
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Hollywood, CA
it's hard to come up with a logical scenario as to why apple won't allow for and even encourage people to upgrade their gpus on this thing..

spend 4k on a computer.. in 3 years spend 2k on new gpus.. in two more years, repeat cycle.

IIRC you are still on a 1,1 with an upgraded GPU.

in short, you are a nightmare customer.

When your purchase generated revenue for Apple, Steve Jobs was still wondering where this whole iPad thingey was gonna go. His big worry was the new Intel processors they were moving to. He also had a phone that was coming out in a year or so.

So while you may have dropped $250 for a 5770 to them, imagine if the GPUs had been cemented in. If you were stuck with the 7300Gt/X1900 it launched with YYOU WOULD HAVE BOUGHT A NEW MP BY NOW.

So sell you a 5770 for $250 or a couple MPs for $2-3K a piece?

Do you understand now?
 
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flat five

macrumors 603
Feb 6, 2007
5,577
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newyorkcity
IIRC you are still on a 1,1 with an upgraded GPU.

in short, you are a nightmare customer.

When your purchase generated revenue for Apple, Steve Jobs was still wondering where this whole iPad thingey was gonna go. His big worry was the new Intel processors they were moving to. He also had a phone that was coming out in a year or so.

So while you may have dropped $250 for a 5770 to them, imagine if the GPUs had been cemented in. If you were stuck with the 7300Gt/X1900 it launched with YYOU WOULD HAVE BOUGHT A NEW MP BY NOW.

So sell you a 5770 for $250 or a couple MPs for $2-3K a piece?

Do you understand now?

except for the part about me not upgrading my graphics per se.. the 5770 is my 3rd gpu in this machine. the 7300 broke so I got an 8800.. that broke so I'm on the 5770 now.
so according to your argument, I'd actually need 3 complete computers..
I'm not entirely convinced you're thinking all this stuff through properly and/or with the mindset of thinking from the view point of the majority of buyers and what they're willing to spend.
doesn't really matter though what you or I think.. whether or not GPUs are replaceable in the new mac has already been determined a long time ago. our arguments on the issue are basically meaningless.
the irony in all of this, if it plays out as I strongly suspect it will, is that all the current naysayer spec heads will be the people spending the most money on gpu upgrades whereas people like me (the nightmare customer) will buy new GPUs on an as needed basis (such as when their hardware breaks or is no longer supported)
 
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SomeMacGuy

macrumors member
Oct 27, 2007
65
46
Nova Scotia
It's going to be interesting for sure..

One thing that struck me right away was the prominent case latch and the big clunky torx screws in key locations. If they haven't designed it this way to offer internal expandability using their own upgrade parts, then they have definitely made it a heck of a lot easier for the aftermarket to develop components for it.

Another SSD slot on the second GPU would have been a good sign but unfortunately there doesn't appear to be...
 
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MacVidCards

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except for the part about me not upgrading my graphics per se.. the 5770 is my 3rd gpu in this machine. the 7300 broke so I got an 8800.. that broke so I'm on the 5770 now.
so according to your argument, I'd actually need 3 complete computers..
I'm not entirely convinced you're thinking all this stuff through properly and/or with the mindset of thinking from the view point of the majority of buyers and what they're willing to spend.
doesn't really matter though what you or I think.. whether or not GPUs are replaceable in the new mac has already been determined a long time ago. our arguments on the issue are basically meaningless.
the irony in all of this, if it plays out as I strongly suspect it will, is that all the current naysayer spec heads will be the people spending the most money on gpu upgrades whereas people like me (the nightmare customer) will buy new GPUs on an as needed basis (such as when their hardware breaks or is no longer supported)

Ok, now think for a minute. What if instead of 1 7300 there had been 2? One dies, do you replace just one? Or do you get out the checkbook and buy 2 @ 8800GT? And what if the 8800GTs also require a 3rd PCB be replaced for additional power? Same questions for the move to the 5770. So, each upgrade would have required replacing 2/3s of the PCBs in the machine, at a much greater cost. Would you have soldiered through to today on 7300GTs? Or might you have just bought a newer MP when the genius came back with a repair estimate that was 1/2 the price of a new machine.

Being able to incrementally update/replace is EXACTLY what is being taken away. So yes, you are the sort of person who would be impacted. You would have either incurred greater costs or still been stuck on 7300s up to today in nMP model.
 
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LongSticks

macrumors 6502
Jul 22, 2012
301
0
Kent, UK
Being able to incrementally update/replace is EXACTLY what is being taken away. So yes, you are the sort of person who would be impacted. You would have either incurred greater costs or still been stuck on 7300s up to today in nMP model.

Are you going to let us all in on your insider source? Let us know EXACTLY how you can definitively make this statement!
 
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flat five

macrumors 603
Feb 6, 2007
5,577
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Ok, now think for a minute. What if instead of 1 7300 there had been 2? One dies, do you replace just one? Or do you get out the checkbook and buy 2 @ 8800GT? And what if the 8800GTs also require a 3rd PCB be replaced for additional power? Same questions for the move to the 5770. So, each upgrade would have required replacing 2/3s of the PCBs in the machine, at a much greater cost. Would you have soldiered through to today on 7300GTs? Or might you have just bought a newer MP when the genius came back with a repair estimate that was 1/2 the price of a new machine.

Being able to incrementally update/replace is EXACTLY what is being taken away. So yes, you are the sort of person who would be impacted. You would have either incurred greater costs or still been stuck on 7300s up to today in nMP model.

don't know.. ask me again when there are real world costs to factor with, knowledge of whether or not gpus need to be replaced in pairs, and i have a fried gpu..

but going off the exact situation youve outlined (gpu repair = 1/2 cost of new computer), i'd probably buy a complete new computer.
 
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deconstruct60

macrumors G3
Mar 10, 2009
9,484
2,060
....
I think we all know there are 2 GPUs.

I honestly don't know what you are disputing?

How about the 'fact' (totally lacking any evidence what so ever) that if one GPU card fails you have to buy two replace it. In other words, a board with no failure what so ever is required to be thrown away.

There goes a 1/3 of your 2/3's.

Apple is selling them in identical pairs. There are far more "we will make more money by selling in volume" reasons for that than any technical one. Just because they aren't selling the config doesn't mean it won't work. When 64GB DIMMs show up the nMP probably won't have a problem with them even though the Apple "tech specs" says there is a 64GB cap. ( Tech Specs weren't technically true on current ones with folks with 128GB installed).

There are a few more, but that is the most blatant fib of the bunch.
 
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deconstruct60

macrumors G3
Mar 10, 2009
9,484
2,060
except for the part about me not upgrading my graphics per se.. the 5770 is my 3rd gpu in this machine. the 7300 broke so I got an 8800.. that broke so I'm on the 5770 now.

What is breaking on these cards? A connector or it is some internal electronics that implode?

whether or not GPUs are replaceable in the new mac has already been determined a long time ago. our arguments on the issue are basically meaningless.

replaceable isn't an issue. Many Mac Pros are going to be covered by AppleCare and Apple doesn't want to throw away 2/3 of the Mac Pro to do a repair either since it is probably on their 'dime' while the service contract is active.

What may or may not be already decided is whether Apple is going to engage in selling these custom GPUs cards individually or as part of some sesrvice offering ( bring in your Mac Pro and for $xxxxx we'll upgrade the GPUs). Whether Apple is looking at that as a long term business or not dependsd upon with the connector and internal tolerances are kept constant as they roll out new cards.

Apple has sold the cards from their standard configs before.

Apple might continue that if enough folks convince Apple they will step up and buy cards. From the price so far the mark-up on the cards are going to be far more interest that walking away from that will be harder if people will pay. ( outside of the "Used" market they aren't going to be priced in the $249 5770 range. )

The argument that Apple wants you to buy the expensive Mac Pro system would work just as well on Apple wants you to buy the high mark-up Pro GPU too. More than likely Apple would be the solidary vendor ( Which is actually one of the real sources of grumbling , FUD, and misdirection about this option).
 
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flat five

macrumors 603
Feb 6, 2007
5,577
2,656
newyorkcity
What is breaking on these cards? A connector or it is some internal electronics that implode?

not sure exactly.. whatever it is that causes the screen to look similar to this for a while prior to complete blackout or failure to boot.


wcj0b7.jpg

(not my image)
 
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