New Mac User 1st Impressions of OS X

[matttrick]

matttrick: I understand your preference and I do (also as an ex Windows user) partly agree with you. More than one window visible can indeed be distracting, but it is easily solved: every app has the option ( under app main pulldown menu ) to hide other apps (command option H ), start using it!

Anyway welcome to the mac-community.

ive been using that for ages, im not that new. its not just the issue of other apps, its the size issue, especially on a laptop.

 

[matttrick]

True...but while we are at it, we should probably add a task bar and a start button to accommodate switchers too.

EDIT: PS, we have quite the audience. I noticed the page view counts on this thread has skyrocketed in the last couple hours!

again with the floodgate mentality. irrelevant because no one is asking for a start menu or taskbar. just for a window which they already use to have a tiny bit more flexibility.

 

[Excursions]

This thread is completely ridiculous. All of these confused Windows users have been completely owned by dpaanlka's clear and articulate explanations of the superiorities of the zoom button but then respond with illogical garbage about their preference to have a window unnecessarily take up the entire screen. Let me try to be as clear as possible. If you are working with an application that would benefit from utilizing every pixel on your screen, then the zoom button will happily maximize the window for you. However, if you are using safari for example, it will make the window just wide enough for you not to have to scroll horizontally. OH MY GOD IM DISTRACTED BY THE OTHER WINDOWS BEHIND. Well, if that is the case just hide them and do not tell me that you are distracted by the desktop; if your ADD is that bad then maybe you need to pop another adderall. If you really can't get over being able to see the desktop then feel free to satisfy your preference and grab the resize handle and make it take up the whole screen, but a little hint: it would be a lot less work to just use the zoom button. I won't say that your preference is wrong but it is pointless and inefficient.

 

[Curren~Sea]

It's like, I moved to a new city and I'm listening to their classical radio station, and I tell my new neighbor, "This radio station is great but I wish they would play some Vivaldi." And my neighbor proceeds to embark upon a long rant about how there is no need for Vivaldi...Bach is way better and how could I possibly consider listening to Vivaldi...The station plays Mozart and -everyone- knows that listening to Mozart makes you smarter...If I want Vivaldi, just listen to some Telemann because it's nearly the same thing anyway...etc.

You should get the point by now. Anyone insisting that it's the current OS X way or the highway is extremely short-sighted and clearly close-minded.

For the record, I personally do not care one way or the other about the maximizing function. But I do find it amusing listening to fanboy ("one who blindly holds onto a belief with no consideration of a larger point of view") Mac arguments. Perhaps with a bit of effort some of these forum addicts will expand their vision.

 

[Shadow]

yeah dragging a window size is not exactly a graceful thing on a trackpad. one tiny button could solve the problem. but ohhhh no it would upset the gods...

Alright, you've crossed the line now. I've read this thread upto this post and I was 'nodding' to some of your ideas, but most of them were rubbish. a 4th button?! Are you crazy? If you took this mentality, there would be buttons everywhere to do every single thing. I'm personally surprised at just how many undocumented features there are in Mac OS X...there are system shortcuts everywhere you look. Mac OS X handles windows very different than Windows (hmm...what an odd statement). In Windows, the windows are application-orentated. This means that on the task bar, each document has its own button. This contrasts with the Mac which is application-orentated; that is that in the Dock only every app has its own icon (unless you minimize a document).

This is more productive-say you want to drag Image X from Application Y into Document Z. On Windows, if document Z is minimized, you must first un-minimize it before dragging. Likewise if Application Y is maximized-you must first un-maximize it, then drag.

However, on the Mac most windows are already open-not minimized (I personally only minimize a window if I will not use it within the next 5 or 10 mins), so you can easily drag Image X from Application Y into Document Z.

This is because Mac OS X handles windows differently-they are document orientated. Moreover, it is easier to differentiate between different document-they have a better boarders (ie, drop shadows).

 

[matttrick]

This thread is completely ridiculous. All of these confused Windows users have been completely owned by dpaanlka's clear and articulate explanations of the superiorities of the zoom button but then respond with illogical garbage about their preference to have a window unnecessarily take up the entire screen. Let me try to be as clear as possible. If you are working with an application that would benefit from utilizing every pixel on your screen, then the zoom button will happily maximize the window for you. However, if you are using safari for example, it will make the window just wide enough for you not to have to scroll horizontally. OH MY GOD IM DISTRACTED BY THE OTHER WINDOWS BEHIND. Well, if that is the case just hide them and do not tell me that you are distracted by the desktop; if your ADD is that bad then maybe you need to pop another adderall. If you really can't get over being able to see the desktop then feel free to satisfy your preference and grab the resize handle and make it take up the whole screen, but a little hint: it would be a lot less work to just use the zoom button. I won't say that your preference is wrong but it is pointless and inefficient.

really i just did it on safari on macrumors and it cut off half the page.i have to scroll horizontally and vertically which is just assinine.

 

[Excursions]

really i just did it on safar on macrumors and it cut off half the page.i have to scroll horizontally and vertically which is just assinine.

press it again, sherlock. you were already at a width where you did not have to scroll horizontally.

if you want to see it work correctly, first resize the window so that it is very thin and you need to scroll horizontally, then press the zoom button. If you play around with it you will realize that OS X saves your preferred window size as one setting of the zoom button and the proper width of the window as the other setting.

 

[matttrick]

press it again, sherlock. you were already at a width where you did not have to scroll horizontally.

yeah and then it forces things way down the page and makes it 5x the height it should be in some columns.

like i said its all a matter of preference and theres really no reason other than development time (of a simple feature) not to have it. i reckon the real reason is to be windows renegaes. *woohoo*

 

[petvas]

I really think that for many apps the full screen option is the best. Why not use the full resolution available for an application? I just dont get it!
The lack of a button is no problem, although the + button is a bit of confusing for a switcher. Having said that I dont mind it now, thank God Mac OS saves Window positions, so a user has just to drag an app to full screen and thats it!
Try using MS Word without hiding all apps. The floating windows make the whole experience confusing. The only mode that really works ok for Word is Full Screen!

The apps that I use in full screen are Safari, Mail, iCal, Word, iTunes & iPhoto.

Most of the other apps do not need a full screen mode. (Toast for example)

Drag and Drop CAN work with fully maximized Windows! For example, try drawing an Image from Safari to iTunes. It works great! (using Apple + Tab and holding the mouse button to drag the image)

Using the Finder in full screen mode for copying files isnt all that great, but for browsing files it is! I always have a Finder window fully maximized.

I find the application-centric approach of Mac OS much better than the Windows one. I would still very much prefer a maximize button instead of a zoom but I wouldnt die for it!

 

[matttrick]

i just dont understand why people are against it. it would affect them in -NO- way whatsoever.

 

[MetalFace]

as a sort of newb to OS X a few months now.

i admit at first i was like wtf why can i just easily take up the full screen etc. but now i just think its much better and u can quiclky shift between apps web pages and msn convos etc. by just clicking the window behind the one you are using and some things u dont need taking up the full screen like word and web pages and it just seems i dunno tider to me. at a glance the screen may look cluttered but when u are focusing on the task in hand all the apps behing may as well not be there cos u do not notice but when u need them u no where they are and if not expose does the magic no need for alt tab or using the old skool windows start menu bar thingy (neve no what to call it lol)

and again at first i didnt even no how to print with word or any program on mac couldnt find any inbuilt icons etc. but having them up there in the apple start bar (or what ever you call it) seems to make sense now. it gives u more screen space for the actual app u dont need all the print file etc stuff taking up extra space when u can have then in a tiny bar that chances with each app.

i like both windows and mac for different things and i use both and i will be installing vista on my imac when i get the chance :cough:torrent:cough:

 

[Excursions]

i just dont understand why people are against it. it would affect them in -NO- way whatsoever.

I agree that having a key combo that you hold while pressing the zoom button to maximize would not interfere with the normal functioning at all and would make it easier for switchers to adjust. However, having this function might prevent people from understanding why it is better not to maximize every window all the time. The switch from Windows to OS X is a complete change in thinking about normal computer tasks and ultimately leads to a better computing environment. My recommendation is just to let go and pretend you have never used a computer before, give OS X's ways a chance before comparing them to Windows. Try to understand why it is different, not why it's not the same.

 

[matttrick]

I agree that having a key combo that you hold while pressing the zoom button to maximize would not interfere with the normal functioning at all and would make it easier for switchers to adjust. However, having this function might prevent people from understanding why it is better not to maximize every window all the time. The switch from Windows to OS X is a complete change in thinking about normal computer tasks and ultimately leads to a better computing environment. My recommendation is just to let go and pretend you have never used a computer before, give OS X's ways a chance before comparing them to Windows. Try to understand why it is different, not why it's not the same.

well at least you have a real reason for how you feel., and you are correct that maximizing isnt always the best option. although i happen to disagree about the mac way being "better". its not even that much different from windows when you really get down to it. its built on a more solid foundation and has some great features, but the overall functionality is pretty close anyhow.

 

[Zmmyt]

just my opinion, I'm not saying I'm right.

When I see windows users sitting in front of their 20'' with an explorer window open in full screen, I can't help it, I get the feeling there is something wrong.

Windows XP came out when 15'' and 17'' monitors were the norm, people were using full screen views. Now we have 20'' and even bigger displays and people still use windows xp/vista(?) in full screen. What makes that view so efficient?

I have a 12'' PB and never missed that "windows-full-screen-mode"

Because people tend to use that harsh word so often I'll use it as well.

I HATE "full-screen-mode", a freaking waste of space!

 

[SteveG4Cube]

<ahem>

http://www.aristoi.org/blog/archives/2004/01/maximize_safari.php

 

[Skrilla™]

The switch from Windows to OS X is a complete change in thinking about normal computer tasks and ultimately leads to a better computing environment.

That statement is a complete farce because it is your opinion, and while it may be the general sentiment on this board it is not in the rest of the real world. If I had to use OS X at work I would go nuts.

I love OS X for the things I do at home, but it would be worthless in my work environment. That's why I have to boot into Windows or use my desktop if I take some work home.

I work for a large engineering company in the oil & gas field. My work consists of project management tasks. I spend most of my day in Excel, Access, Word, Primavera and dabble w/ Pertmaster from time to time. It is a Windows world in our industry.

Flame on!

 

[Curren~Sea]

That statement is a complete farce because it is your opinion, and while it may be the general sentiment on this board it is not in the rest of the real world. If I had to use OS X at work I would go nuts.

I love OS X for the things I do at home, but it would be worthless in my work environment. That's why I have to boot into Windows or use my desktop if I take some work home.

I work for a large engineering company in the oil & gas field. My work consists of project management tasks. I spend most of my day in Excel, Access, Word, Primavera and dabble w/ Pertmaster from time to time. It is a Windows world in our industry.

Flame on!

I'm in the same boat as you. The corporate world revolves almost exclusively around Windoze. However, I do not see any technical reason why it could not revolve around OS X. If Apple ever came out with a killer office suite where documents were completely seamless across all platforms, there would be a lot more incentive for businesses to make the investment into moving to Mac.

 

[Excursions]

That statement is a complete farce because it is your opinion, and while it may be the general sentiment on this board it is not in the rest of the real world. If I had to use OS X at work I would go nuts.

I love OS X for the things I do at home, but it would be worthless in my work environment. That's why I have to boot into Windows or use my desktop if I take some work home.

I work for a large engineering company in the oil & gas field. My work consists of project management tasks. I spend most of my day in Excel, Access, Word, Primavera and dabble w/ Pertmaster from time to time. It is a Windows world in our industry.

Flame on!

This is why I used such general terms. OS X is a better computing environment in general, obviously if it can't even launch the applications that are vital to your tasks then it is not the better environment. My point is that the operating system is better suited to a more productive work style because of it's inherent advantages.

 

[Skrilla™]

My point is that the operating system is better suited to a more productive work style because of it's inherent advantages.

I really don't see how OS X is more productive than Windows or even Linux. Please give some examples.

 

[matttrick]

This is why I used such general terms. OS X is a better computing environment in general, obviously if it can't even launch the applications that are vital to your tasks then it is not the better environment. My point is that the operating system is better suited to a more productive work style because of it's inherent advantages.

no it isnt. its so freaking practically the same it makes me laugh to hear people talk about it the way they do.

when i switched to OS X i was so underwhelmed because of the way mac users talk about it. it wasnt until i looked at it as just a slightly different way of doing things that i appreciated it. theres less thinking to do and less to worry about, but its essentially the same. its like the Wii of OS's, well except without being really underpowered like the wii

 

[Excursions]

I really don't see how OS X is more productive than Windows or even Linux. Please give some examples.

I have no experience with Linux. OS X is more productive than Windows XP in my opinion because of it's advantages in a few key areas.
Multi-tasking:
Expose. Utilizing the majority of the screen space by not embracing a maximize mentality. Better memory management by the OS.
Security:
Not having to run anti-virus/spyware. Not having to worry about what I download. Not having viruses or spyware bring my system to a crawl.
Distractions:
There are none. I can't stand the system tray in XP for example. Guess what windows I don't give a **** if you detected new hardware just mount the ****ing hard drive and stop interrupting my flow.
Drag and Drop:
Windows doesn't really understand this concept while OS X implements it to make file management a breeze. Spring loaded folders, the sidebar, expose, all of these features make the movement of files a pleasure on OS X and embarrass cut and paste in Windows.
The Dock:
While some may complain about the dock, I love it's simplicity and application centered style. I keep only a handful of key applications in my dock, as well as the applications folder, and keep it hidden and on the bottom left of the screen. When I sit down to my computer I can launch safari, ichat, mail, itunes, word, ical, all of the programs I use on a daily basis, with one click each without having to go into a start menu and sorting through a slew of applications each time I want to launch an application. Also, it stays out of the way unless I need it unlike the task bar which you must constantly be using in XP because it is your only way of locating the window that you want. The task bar does a terrible job of window management in my opinion and this becomes very apparent when you have many windows open.

There are definitely improvements that can be made to OS X and I am anxious to see what Leopard has to offer. I have not used Vista as of yet, but right now I can say that OS X offers a more productive work environment when compared to XP.

 

[Skrilla™]

no it isnt. its so freaking practically the same it makes me laugh to hear people talk about it the way they do.

when i switched to OS X i was so underwhelmed because of the way mac users talk about it. it wasnt until i looked at it as just a slightly different way of doing things that i appreciated it. theres less thinking to do and less to worry about, but its essentially the same. its like the Wii of OS's, well except without being really underpowered like the wii

I am right with you matttrick; you mac heads need to take off your apple sunglasses.

I have no experience with Linux. OS X is more productive than Windows XP in my opinion because of it's advantages in a few key areas.
Multi-tasking:
Expose. Utilizing the majority of the screen space by not embracing a maximize mentality. Better memory management by the OS.
Security:
Not having to run anti-virus/spyware. Not having to worry about what I download. Not having viruses or spyware bring my system to a crawl.
Distractions:
There are none. I can't stand the system tray in XP for example. Guess what windows I don't give a **** if you detected new hardware just mount the ****ing hard drive and stop interrupting my flow.
Drag and Drop:
Windows doesn't really understand this concept while OS X implements it to make file management a breeze. Spring loaded folders, the sidebar, expose, all of these features make the movement of files a pleasure on OS X and embarrass cut and paste in Windows.
The Dock:
While some may complain about the dock, I love it's simplicity and application centered style. I keep only a handful of key applications in my dock, as well as the applications folder, and keep it hidden and on the bottom left of the screen. When I sit down to my computer I can launch safari, ichat, mail, itunes, word, ical, all of the programs I use on a daily basis, with one click each without having to go into a start menu and sorting through a slew of applications each time I want to launch an application. Also, it stays out of the way unless I need it unlike the task bar which you must constantly be using in XP because it is your only way of locating the window that you want. The task bar does a terrible job of window management in my opinion and this becomes very apparent when you have many windows open.

There are definitely improvements that can be made to OS X and I am anxious to see what Leopard has to offer. I have not used Vista as of yet, but right now I can say that OS X offers a more productive work environment when compared to XP.

Once again, we have more opinions that could be argued about in another 100 posts.

Expose - I agree with you

Anti Virus - I do not agree with. While some people may need it, I and others do not.

Tray Notifications can be turned off.

Drag and Drop - you can drag and drop all you want in Windows. I can't stand dragging and dropping. I believe it is counter-productive. This is something I really don't like about OS X. I can move files all over a Windows box lightning fast, while OS X makes it a pain for me.

Dock vs Taskbar - they basically do the same thing, except on Windows you see a bar and in OS X you see an icon. There is no need to launch applications from the start menu. I have all the apps I use in toolbars on the taskbar.

I could go on and on but I won't. Just realize that OS X is NOT what you and others try to make it out to be. Not yet anyway.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Windows switchers...

I think its a funny gripe...So funny that the OS they are coming from should probably be renamed to Microsoft Window since it seems multitasking (i.e. more than one window in view) is too distracting

Emphasis mine. That's just hilarious! I might call it that from now on.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

For those who do not know, applications in Windows do not have to be maximized to work correctly!

But to work efficiently, they do. Because the menubar in Windows applications moves around with the window, the only way to have effective muscle memory is to keep every window maximized (which of course defeats the purpose of having windows). Also, see Fitt's Law.

It's one of those essential paradigm differences between OS X and Window(s) that has usability repercussions everywhere.

As for eliminating distractions, just cmd-opt-click your app and all the other apps on your desktop will hide themselves.

 

[Blubbert]

Not to sound like a jerk, but this whole discussion over zoom or maximize is silly. OSX is not Windows. This expectation that OSX should conform to the usage paradigms of Windows is, for a lack of a better word, moronic. If you simply cannot adjust to a new operating system, you can always try an alternative. Atleast now you have an absurdely wide selection, especially on the intel Mac's.