New MacBook Pro Expectations

[puma1552]

For 15"/17" models:

--Core i5 across the board with i7 as the top BTO option on the 15", and standard on the 17"
--Crappy outdated graphics, like ATI 4850 (don't get your hopes up for a 5xxx series...)
--HDD bump to 640 GB 5400 RPM on the high end
--No RAM capacity or speed increase
--MAYBE IPS panels, but don't count on a resolution bump until OS X has resolution independence

Things that won't happen:

--ATI 5xxx or NVIDIA equivalent
--USB 3.0
--Blu-Ray
--More ports, etc.

Honestly for me at this point while I love my late '08 1440x900 TN panel, I couldn't upgrade until I see a 1650x1080 IPS panel. That really is a deal-breaker for me. At this point in the game though, USB 3.0 is hard to overlook on a $3k machine I'd hope to use for 3 years, well into when USB 3.0 will be standard everywhere in industry. At this point I really don't know if I could buy without USB 3.0, even with my bumped resolution IPS panel.

Remember guys, this is Apple we are talking about--keep your expectations realistic--that means keep your expectations low.

 

[hamlinspahn]

At the same time, IPS isn't always necessarily better

I am with you on all of your predictions except USB 3.0. Apple frequently selects a port that is upcoming and goes with it near the beginning. I believe these new Macs will have USB 3.0.

What are the drawbacks of IPS?

Apple is usually first with the new Technology but in order to have it before 2011 they will have to get the controller chip from a 3rd party. Intel says they don't exists yet or maybe not in production is a better way to say it. I'm sure Apple would love to have USB 3 first and I bet they will but not in this update. Lightpeak is the technology that Apple has participated in with regards to development, not USB 3. Lightpeak is still a year off or more so it isn't going to be there, but it is Apples preferred path at this time they have big plans for it.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/04/nvidia-confirms-intel-chipsets-wont-support-usb-3-0-until-2011/
http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/26/exclusive-apple-dictated-light-peak-creation-to-intel-could-be/

 

[theLimit]

Third party is what I said, should have been a comma after Apple. So if the MBA doesn't get an update you are going to get a MBP am I reading that right, If so I have a question for you, would you really add the 2nd HDD or solid state drive, or would you use it just to fill in the space the DVD took up in-order to save weight. I heard of people doing both but not sure why you would need to do either. Curious about the why and if there is some other reason I haven't come across.

Until updates happen, I'm just considering options.

If the Air either isn't updated or I can't justify the price/performance/weight difference, I'll likely get the 13" MBP. I sold my 15" MBP weeks ago in anticipation of this update, as I mainly want a smaller, lighter notebook. The 13" MBP is already 1.5 lbs lighter than my 15" was, and the Air is only half the weight I used to carry. My briefcase was weighing in at just over 20 lbs, and I'd like to eliminate as much of that as possible.

If I were to go with the 13" MBP, I'd swap the HDD for an SSD and put one of my large externals in an optibay. The weight of the HDD is negligible, and I would get far more use out of extra storage than a slow DVD burner. I don't see Apple offering BD-RE drives as an option at this time.

In either case, Air or 13" Pro, I'm leaning toward an external BD-RE for the times I need an optical drive. With such a setup, I could also use the external BD-RE drive with other machines when needed.

 

[andrewfee]

Thanks for the very through post, I think you are going to be disappointed though. If they Sony has everything you want then why dont you just get that?

Well it doesn't have everything that I'm looking for - I prefer the overall design/rigidity of Apple's notebooks and have never used a non-Apple trackpad that I have liked. As previously mentioned I also have a fair bit of money invested in OSX-specific software. With Adobe's Creative Suite 5 due out soon I could probably buy a Windows upgrade instead of Mac to change my license over which is a large portion of it, but there are lots of little programs I'm used to on OSX that either don't have equivalents on Windows, or work as well.

I've been using a Windows 7 desktop as my main computer for the last few months since selling my 15" MacBook Pro (back when these were initially 'due') and while I'm liking it more after spending some time with it, I would still prefer to use OSX on my main system.

I have also been using 13" MacBooks (not my systems but I have access to them) and I really prefer the physical size of them to the 15" MBP (which replaced a 17" Powerbook) but the current screen quality and resolution is far too low for me, especially considering the cost of a top-spec one. I would love to have a 13" machine with a high resolution, high quality display that I could use as my main system. Anything else I've listed would be nice to have, but without a high resolution screen (at a bare minimum 1440x900, but preferably higher) I simply cannot justify spending that kind of money on one when you can get systems for a fraction of the price with better displays.

I'd like to see a twin HDD option with an external optical drive, which is rarely used on my machines, whereas a second drive bay would be great for a Photoshop scratch disc.

I agree, it would be great if Apple had this as an option rather than having to spend $99 on an Optibay, but at least it is trivial to fit one of them with the unibody design now though.

If there is no Blu-ray option, and there are no third-party drives that would fit, I would definitely want a second hard drive rather than a DVD burner - that is hardly any use to me these days.

Again Not a Chance -USB3.0

Why do you say that there is no chance of USB3? There are many motherboards and 'PC' notebooks that offer USB3 now and in the past Apple has usually been one of the early adopters of that sort of thing.

 

[maximus06]

There's a lot of nonsense in here with regards to graphics cards, so I'll try to clear a few things up:

1) First of all, apple *will* go ATI, all the clues point to it and it makes the most sense because they currently offer the best cards when it comes to power-consumption/performance. NVIDIA is some 2 generations behind, this has been said/explained many times.

2) They will not use anything below ATI 5650. Again, this is obvious, and people who *know* graphics processors will only agree. It is all about power usage (watts). That alone is what apple's decision will be based on. The current 9600M GT uses 23 watts, so we can expect them to use a 5xxx card in the 15-25 watt range. This narrows it down to four cards: 5650/5730/5750/5830. These are the only 4 options apple has. I predict the 5650 because it alone offers excellent ("revolutionary") power usage: 4-8 watts lower than the current 9600 and almost 2x+ the graphics power.

3) They will, most likely, introduce auto-switchable graphics a la optimus, except it'll be an ATI version compatible with OSX.

Edit: someone mentioned the 5430 - that just shows the poster knows nothing about mobile GPUs. The card is almost a year old, weaker (or ~equal to) than the current 9600M GT and uses 7 (!) watts of power. At best, that's something the 13" could get, but even that's doubtable.

 

[Kavier]

I'm honestly just waiting for the i5 and i7 processors. Other things I am hoping for are an anti-glare screen on the 13", USB 3.0 and longer battery life. Also, I hope the 13" doesn't get stuck with an i3 processor or, worse yet, no update at all.

 

[hamlinspahn]

Mba

Until updates happen, I'm just considering options.

If the Air either isn't updated or I can't justify the price/performance/weight difference, I'll likely get the 13" MBP. I sold my 15" MBP weeks ago in anticipation of this update, as I mainly want a smaller, lighter notebook. The 13" MBP is already 1.5 lbs lighter than my 15" was, and the Air is only half the weight I used to carry. My briefcase was weighing in at just over 20 lbs, and I'd like to eliminate as much of that as possible.

If I were to go with the 13" MBP, I'd swap the HDD for an SSD and put one of my large externals in an optibay. The weight of the HDD is negligible, and I would get far more use out of extra storage than a slow DVD burner. I don't see Apple offering BD-RE drives as an option at this time.

In either case, Air or 13" Pro, I'm leaning toward an external BD-RE for the times I need an optical drive. With such a setup, I could also use the external BD-RE drive with other machines when needed.

It looks like performance and weight is a big requirement for you. Looks like you have a good plan in place the 13" size is really nice my Brother has a 13" MBP about a year old, he like you had some cost justification issues with the MBA which is what he really wanted. I had a 17" MBP for about a year before I finally just couldn't take the heat anymore. I longed for my cold G4 iBook. so I sold the MBP and got a White MB no she isn't a speed demon but the heat issue is a lot better and she also gets the job done. I would move back to the MBP line if they just didn't generate so much heat and may have to if the do away with the White MB. I know that sounds silly but if I'm just the least bit warm it drives me nuts. I may be the only person on the planet that picked his computer entirely based on the heat it gives off. Just and Idea of how heat sensitive I am I keep the house at 65 and am still hot sometimes, but any lower the dogs shiver. Do you think a BD-RE would run well on a MB? I would like to have one the CD/DVD drive is useless heck I don't eve know if it works.

 

[cmanbrazil]

There's a lot of nonsense in here with regards to graphics cards, so I'll try to clear a few things up:

1) First of all, apple *will* go ATI, all the clues point to it and it makes the most sense because they currently offer the best cards when it comes to power-consumption/performance. NVIDIA is some 2 generations behind, this has been said/explained many times.

2) They will not use anything below ATI 5650. Again, this is obvious, and people who *know* graphics processors will only agree. It is all about power usage (watts). That alone is what apple's decision will be based on. The current 9600M GT uses 23 watts, so we can expect them to use a 5xxx card in the 15-25 watt range. This narrows it down to four cards: 5650/5730/5750/5830. These are the only 4 options apple has. I predict the 5650 because it alone offers excellent ("revolutionary") power usage: 4-8 watts lower than the current 9600 and almost 2x+ the graphics power.

3) They will, most likely, introduce auto-switchable graphics a la optimus, except it'll be an ATI version compatible with OSX.

Edit: someone mentioned the 5430 - that just shows the poster knows nothing about mobile GPUs. The card is almost a year old, weaker (or ~equal to) than the current 9600M GT and uses 7 (!) watts of power. At best, that's something the 13" could get, but even that's doubtable.

Do you work for apple? Can you tell us some more OBVIOUS things?

 

[juandixon109]

no optical drive please!!!

dvd/cd/bluray = 8tracks

 

[theLimit]

someone mentioned the 5430 - that just shows the poster knows nothing about mobile GPUs. The card is almost a year old, weaker (or ~equal to) than the current 9600M GT and uses 7 (!) watts of power. At best, that's something the 13" could get, but even that's doubtable.

I mentioned that mostly as an exaggeration of Apple's past GPU offerings. Apple historically have used low- to mid-range mainstream graphics offerings, usually a year behind currently shipping products.

If I were to hazard a guess at an ATI 5xxx-series GPU for new notebooks, it would be 5670 or 5750. I don't have that much faith in Apple's choice of GPUs, but I would love for them to prove me wrong with 512MB to 1GB 58xx-series across their entire computer lineup, both notebooks and desktops.

 

[maximus06]

I mentioned that mostly as an exaggeration of Apple's past GPU offerings. Apple historically have used low- to mid-range mainstream graphics offerings, usually a year behind currently shipping products.

If I were to hazard a guess at an ATI 5xxx-series GPU for new notebooks, it would be 5670 or 5750. I don't have that much faith in Apple's choice of GPUs, but I would love for them to prove me wrong with 512MB to 1GB 58xx-series across their entire computer lineup, both notebooks and desktops.

The 5670 is not a laptop (mobile) GPU, desktop only. The only 5600 card is the 5650.

And yes, the 5750 would be *the* ideal choice for a card, but as you mentioned, apple likes to cheapen out on the GPU. Here's hoping they won't disappoint too much this time. 5650 is the best we can reasonably hope for, I'm afraid. 1GB memory in the high-end model is virtually guaranteed either way, though.

 

[Aaron.M.Swope]

I want to see 32GB or 64GB of flash memory on the logic board, like the iPad for the OS/apps, i5/i7 processors with quadcore i7 option on the 17", increased HDD/SSD options, and an ISP screen

 

[wschutz]

I want to see 32GB or 64GB of flash memory on the logic board, like the iPad for the OS/apps, i5/i7 processors with quadcore i7 option on the 17", increased HDD/SSD options, and an ISP screen

I presume you would be willing to pay 1000$ extra (plus the standard 1700-2000$)

 

[Aaron.M.Swope]

not $1000, but I can't ditch my optical drive, so it's the closest thing to a SSD boot drive I will get, plus it just makes sense to me, apple already has the parts onhand

 

[danwellsvt]

As a photographer,the things I care about (all in high end PC notebooks) are:

no resolution drop on 17inch (the easiest way to 16:9 is a drop)
Increased RAM capacity (most pro notebooks handle 16 GB)
Some high speed external disk interface (USB 3.0, esata,whatever)
IPS screen, preferably with bumped color gamut
Of course, core i5/i7,but actually less important than the above

sorry about caps/punctuation, posted from my iPhone.

 

[amjustice]

I'm honestly just waiting for the i5 and i7 processors. Other things I am hoping for are an anti-glare screen on the 13", USB 3.0 and longer battery life. Also, I hope the 13" doesn't get stuck with an i3 processor or, worse yet, no update at all.

Even if the 13" doesnt get updated tomorrow I wouldnt get too upset, it will likely come in the upcoming weeks.

There is a lot going on at Apple, I would think the 15" and 17" would be higher priority over the 13" but stock at various stores points to updates across the board very soon

 

[Rob.G]

I chose the 17" when I got my MBP back in January because I needed the resolution. I LOVE 1920x1200. I don't really see them upping the res any on the 17, since it would be very hard to read.

I would love to see them offer 1680x1050 on the 15" and either 1440x900 or 1378x768 or whatever the actual "720p" res is on the 13". But since I'm not looking to buy either one, I don't really care.

What I'm hoping for is that the new 17" will have a quad-core i7 option and up to 16 gig of RAM, though I would settle for remaining at 8. Just getting quad cores would be enough to get me to sell mine for a new one. But quad cores AND 16 gig of RAM would be fantastic. I have 8 gig now and still hit 4 gig of swap pretty regularly with all the development work I do.

The what I would REALLY like to see that will NEVER happen is a real freakin keyboard. I mean one with HOME/END/PAGE UP/PAGE DOWN/DELETE just like on a PC. Run 'em up the right side like Dell does these days, I would be fine with that. Just include the damn things PLEASE. But it'll never happen. Sigh.

Rob

 

[amjustice]

The what I would REALLY like to see that will NEVER happen is a real freakin keyboard. I mean one with HOME/END/PAGE UP/PAGE DOWN/DELETE just like on a PC. Run 'em up the right side like Dell does these days, I would be fine with that. Just include the damn things PLEASE. But it'll never happen. Sigh.

Rob

Hahahaha now you are dreaming

 

[Scottsdale]

What are the drawbacks of IPS?

Apple is usually first with the new Technology but in order to have it before 2011 they will have to get the controller chip from a 3rd party. Intel says they don't exists yet or maybe not in production is a better way to say it. I'm sure Apple would love to have USB 3 first and I bet they will but not in this update. Lightpeak is the technology that Apple has participated in with regards to development, not USB 3. Lightpeak is still a year off or more so it isn't going to be there, but it is Apples preferred path at this time they have big plans for it.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/04/nvidia-confirms-intel-chipsets-wont-support-usb-3-0-until-2011/
http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/26/exclusive-apple-dictated-light-peak-creation-to-intel-could-be/

IPS displays more colors and has better viewing angles. At the same time, it is worse for motion like videos or video gaming. It doesn't respond as quickly. However, for a computer it seems obvious, especially for a "Pro" who possibly depends on color accuracy. One last thought, Apple uses the best TN displays available, so IPS isn't going to be that big of an upgrade for us.

Just like FW isn't included in the Intel chipset USB 3.0 isn't included in the Intel chipset. It doesn't mean Apple cannot add a simple USB 3.0 controller card. I would bet money on USB 3.0 on this next Apple update. It is a no brainer for Apple. It is low cost and the way Apple deals with technology. Other PCs have USB 3.0 already (I think HP's Envy does).

LightPeak is more than a year off. Not only is it not ready, there are no devices that would use it for a long while (I guess maybe if Apple released new ACDs), but even then the future is wireless everything if we're talking years down the road.

 

[puma1552]

I would bet money on USB 3.0 on this next Apple update. It is a no brainer for Apple. It is low cost and the way Apple deals with technology. Other PCs have USB 3.0 already (I think HP's Envy does).

You're going to be in for a massive disappointment methinks.

Apple won't incorporate USB 3.0 until mid 2011/early 2012 update cycles. They will be dead last, and probably won't have USB 3.0 iPods until 2011 at the earliest.

 

[macgeek18]

I'm really hoping for a 13" MBP update with the new Intel core i3 and 4GB of ram stock,and a 250GB HD stock,and 7200rpm drives in the 15" and 17" MBP stock.BlueRay would be amazing as well,maybe a designated graphics chip as well in the 13" MBP,so no more taking away from the main ram.

 

[Scottsdale]

Do you work for apple? Can you tell us some more OBVIOUS things?

I expect to be LMAO tomorrow when the MBPs get something like an Nvidia 330 GT with Optimus after that poster acted like everyone's stupid for thinking Apple would keep with its long relationship with Nvidia. However, ATI could happen... but look at Apple's past graphics card selections. Apple never picks even a mid-range card, so how could they go 5830? I hope to be DEAD WRONG about this one, but I don't see it happening.

 

[Hackint0sh]

floppy disk. thanks

I LOL'd...

 

[Scottsdale]

As a photographer,the things I care about (all in high end PC notebooks) are:

no resolution drop on 17inch (the easiest way to 16:9 is a drop)
Increased RAM capacity (most pro notebooks handle 16 GB)
Some high speed external disk interface (USB 3.0, esata,whatever)
IPS screen, preferably with bumped color gamut
Of course, core i5/i7,but actually less important than the above

sorry about caps/punctuation, posted from my iPhone.

Well the only Core i7 chips that accept 16 GB of RAM are the Quad Core 45W TDP CPUs. Those are going to severely affect the battery life, so I don't see it happening. As I have said before, the MBPs are hardly "professional-grade" computers. They might be stamped "PRO" but that's a marketing gimmick. Although, the 17" MBP is as close as Apple gets to pro grade, so you have some hope for your "pro" MBP holding 16 GB of RAM.

 

[INeedAMacBook]

Lol they HAVE to update the 13 inch mbp seeming as the macbooks have better specs