new MacBook Pro keyboard

[smirking]

4 years should be 10 years.

What is it about year 5 that causes a high-end computer to turn into something that nobody should have an expectation of successfully typing on?

I don't think the idea of offering a 4 year warranty is an admission that the expected lifespan is five years. If that keyboard lasts 4 years, there's a real good chance it'll last more than that if you don't abuse it. I beat the crap out of my 2016 MBP keyboard and broke one of the keys by abusing it (intentionally). The keycap cracked and broke off because I was hammering it so hard to see if I could get the keyboard to mess up. I conducted my mini experiment for a month after almost two years of ownership right before I had to take it in for new battery. The butterfly mechanism isn't as fragile as people think it is. Something else is going on. So if you're not having any problems after it's well broken in, my belief is that it's most likely going to be fine.

Good luck finding an real ten year warranty for anything, especially for something like a keyboard. Four years is a pretty amazing warranty for anything with moving parts that undergoes daily wear and tear. After four years of a product that gets daily use, you're on borrowed time no matter what. The keyboards on the pre touchbar MBPs aren't indestructible either. I've had a couple of those break on me before. The difference is that I was able to repair them.

 

[StuKatz1]

A company that manufactures parachutes for skydivers has had three years of problems with their parachutes.

Their newest parachute, the fourth iteration of this problematic design, contains a couple new materials.

You are a skydiver.

Do you buy the new parachute?

 

[petvas]

A company that manufactures parachutes for skydivers has had three years of problems with their parachutes.

Their newest parachute, the fourth iteration of this problematic design, contains a couple new materials.

You are a skydiver.

Do you buy the new parachute?

This is not a good analogy. If the keyboard fails we will not die. If the parachute fails we will, so no.

If someone wants macOS in a laptop, then the choices out there are limited. Apple must make a keyboard that is widely accepted. Even if I like the butterfly keyboard, I prefer the one on my magic keyboard (but only by a small margin). Apple should just make a Macbook that has 0 keyboard reliability issues, and that is using the magic keyboard mechanism. Also, they should bring the ESC key back, so that the people complaining stop doing that. I personally couldn't care less for a dedicated esc key, but my work is not depending on that in any way..

 

[StuKatz1]

This is not a good analogy. If the keyboard fails we will not die. If the parachute fails we will, so no.

If someone wants macOS in a laptop, then the choices out there are limited. Apple must make a keyboard that is widely accepted. Even if I like the butterfly keyboard, I prefer the one on my magic keyboard (but only by a small margin). Apple should just make a Macbook that has 0 keyboard reliability issues, and that is using the magic keyboard mechanism. Also, they should bring the ESC key back, so that the people complaining stop doing that. I personally couldn't care less for a dedicated esc key, but my work is not depending on that in any way..

The basic responsibility of a computer manufacturing company is to manufacture working computer.

Wake up.

 

[petvas]

The basic responsibility of a computer manufacturing company is to manufacture working computer.

Wake up.

I couldn't agree more. I had Surface computers for the last three years and the problems I had with them do not even compare with the alleged keyboard issues (which I haven't experienced - my keyboard works flawlessly). All computers have issues.

 

[StuKatz1]

I couldn't agree more. I had Surface computers for the last three years and the problems I had with them do not even compare with the alleged keyboard issues (which I haven't experienced - my keyboard works flawlessly). All computers have issues.

Please look up the definition of the word “alleged.”

 

[frou]

I don't think the idea of offering a 4 year warranty is an admission that the expected lifespan is five years. If that keyboard lasts 4 years, there's a real good chance it'll last more than that if you don't abuse it. I beat the crap out of my 2016 MBP keyboard and broke one of the keys by abusing it (intentionally). The keycap cracked and broke off because I was hammering it so hard to see if I could get the keyboard to mess up. I conducted my mini experiment for a month after almost two years of ownership right before I had to take it in for new battery. The butterfly mechanism isn't as fragile as people think it is. Something else is going on. So if you're not having any problems after it's well broken in, my belief is that it's most likely going to be fine.

Good luck finding an real ten year warranty for anything, especially for something like a keyboard. Four years is a pretty amazing warranty for anything with moving parts that undergoes daily wear and tear. After four years of a product that gets daily use, you're on borrowed time no matter what. The keyboards on the pre touchbar MBPs aren't indestructible either. I've had a couple of those break on me before. The difference is that I was able to repair them.

It's not a normal situation if the replacement part is known to be fundamentally flawed at the time it is being fitted. Normal logic about what is reasonable in terms of warranty expectations ceases to apply.

 

[Queen6]

I have had to do exactly that. If I don’t disable the Tap to Click, my cursor will find itself at random locations and often delete text or add into a random spot. I love tap to click, but in general it just doesn’t work well for me.

I found that by disabling "Apple" solved all keyboard and trackpad related issues and then some

Q-6

 

[petvas]

Please look up the definition of the word “alleged.”

I know exactly what it means. People talk about the keyboard issues like they are so widespread that everyone has them or at some point will have them. I don’t believe that to be true. I of course believe that some people are experiencing issues and that sucks, but that doesn’t mean everyone does.
Whatever the case is, keyboards should never fail and that is Apple’s fault.
I am just saying that people on the internet tend to overreact.

 

[StuKatz1]

I know exactly what it means. People talk about the keyboard issues like they are so widespread that everyone has them or at some point will have them.

Unfortunately for you, what you personally believe to be true isn’t all that important.

The very company that designed, manufactured, marketed and sold these keyboards, has a world-wide, generation-wide repair and exchange program in place.

The European Union Consumer Protection Laws are also being evoked to grant consumers, myself included, a full refund based on the defective product.

The keyboard does not allegedly have problems. It has problems.

Wake up.

 

[maflynn]

do not even compare with the alleged keyboard issues (which I haven't experienced - my keyboard works flawlessly). All computers have issues.

alleged keyboard issues? Seriously dude, you believe that the keyboard issues are not true or lack proof?
Definition:

to claim or assert that someone has done something illegal or wrong, typically without proof that this is the case.

I think the keyboard issues have been confirmed even if your keyboard has not yet failed yet. The problem is not alleged since apple does not institute a repair programs over alleged failures but actual ones and thy don'y apologize over alleged failures

People talk about the keyboard issues like they are so widespread that everyone has them or at some point will have them

We have no idea how wide spread, but to say that there is no proof of the failure is baffling. Let me just say that the problem is wide spread enough to cause multiple lawsuits, a repair program that now expands 4 model years (2016 - 2019) and as I mentioned Apple has apologized.

 

[StuKatz1]

Since some people might have their dictionaries handy at the moment, revising the definition of “alleged,” let us all go ahead and flip to the D section, and brush up on another useful word:

Delusion.

an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.

 

[petvas]

alleged keyboard issues? Seriously dude, you believe that the keyboard issues are not true or lack proof?
Definition:


I think the keyboard issues have been confirmed even if your keyboard has not yet failed yet. The problem is not alleged since apple does not institute a repair programs over alleged failures but actual ones and thy don'y apologize over alleged failures


We have no idea how wide spread, but to say that there is no proof of the failure is baffling. Let me just say that the problem is wide spread enough to cause multiple lawsuits, a repair program that now expands 4 model years (2016 - 2019) and as I mentioned Apple has apologized.

I believe that the issues do exist, but I don’t believe that the situation is as bad as the Internet wants us to believe, thus the word alleged. The reliability issues are of course real.

 

[maflynn]

I believe that the issues do exist, but I don’t believe that the situation is as bad as the Internet wants us to believe, thus the word alleged. The reliability issues are of course real.

We don't know the depth of the problem, but we have anecdotal evidence to suggest something in the neighborhood of 5 to 30%

You must have been misinformed about the word "alleged" because the meaning of that as noted, is a claim without proof, and the context of your post, you were casting doubt as to the validity of keyboard failures.

My take is that the problem is that it's not worth arguing if its 5% or 30%, but rather its happening too much on a nearly 3,000 dollar computer, that apple bills as a premium product. Apple continually markets its products as the best out there, its a premium brand and even if the failure rate is on the low end, that's too much imo.

 

[petvas]

We don't know the depth of the problem, but we have anecdotal evidence to suggest something in the neighborhood of 5 to 30%

You must have been misinformed about the word "alleged" because the meaning of that as noted, is a claim without proof, and the context of your post, you were casting doubt as to the validity of keyboard failures.

My take is that the problem is that it's not worth arguing if its 5% or 30%, but rather its happening too much on a nearly 3,000 dollar computer, that apple bills as a premium product. Apple continually markets its products as the best out there, its a premium brand and even if the failure rate is on the low end, that's too much imo.

I am not a native English speaker, so maybe
I also never said that there is any excuse for the keyboard reliability issues. There is none. I am just saying that the every computer has issues. My 3500$ expensive Surface Book got a major crack on the display overnight, when I was sleeping!!! Microsoft said that I did that and had to pay 600€ for the repair. I read on the Internet that the same happened to others and was probably due to thermal issues with the Surface. It sucks, right? No computer is immune from issues. I don’t like that but at least I know that Apple will not behave as Microsoft did.

 

[maflynn]

I am not a native English speaker, so maybe

Fair enough - point taken. If something that frequently forget, not all members speak English as their native tongue, my apologies

I don’t like that but at least I know that Apple will not behave as Microsoft did.

Actually, I've seen posts here about the MBP's display cracking and Apple saying it was user caused and not due to a defect and the person(s) had to pay for the repair. Its really not germane to the topic of keyboards however and I don't want to go down that bunny trail.

I am hoping for MBP owners that the 4th gen does fix the issue, but I've already moved away from the mac platform.

 

[TheSkywalker77]

When I was in the market for a new MacBook I purposely chose to get an older one so I didn't need to deal with all this new and improved keyboard crap. I just want a reliable keyboard, even if it's an outdated design.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I know exactly what it means. People talk about the keyboard issues like they are so widespread that everyone has them or at some point will have them. I don’t believe that to be true. I of course believe that some people are experiencing issues and that sucks, but that doesn’t mean everyone does.
Whatever the case is, keyboards should never fail and that is Apple’s fault.
I am just saying that people on the internet tend to overreact.

Overreact?

Apple has slapped this extended Keyboard service program on to every single laptop they’ve made since 2015 now…

But you think there’s no actual issue or it’s overblown?

I guarantee you Apple doesn’t want to be doing what they’re doing with the redesigns and the extended warranty’s… There is absolutely a big widespread issue that they have been trying hard to downplay

 

[SDColorado]

Microsoft said that I did that and had to pay 600€ for the repair. I read on the Internet that the same happened to others and was allegedly (probably *not* or it would be a more common failure) due to thermal issues with the Surface. It sucks, right? No computer is immune from issues. I don’t like that but at least I know that Apple will not behave as Microsoft did.

I have seen that happen to Apple and other manufacturers. Microsoft is not alone in that and I am not sure that the blame falls on the manufacturer or the design. It could well be on the display panel manufacturer. No computer is immune from issues, nor are display panel manufacturers immune from a fault here or there either.

 

[Soccertess]

With Mac sales down, you would think that Apple would get new machines out as soon as possible without the apparent defective keyboards to recover sales.

 

[Pepe4life]

With Mac sales down, you would think that Apple would get new machines out as soon as possible without the apparent defective keyboards to recover sales.

Why would they? Look at the number of shills on here that are still buying their laptops and defending this keyboard

 

[smirking]

Why would they? Look at the number of shills on here that are still buying their laptops and defending this keyboard

It's amazing that the tiny number of people who are actually willing to say they like the keyboard against have such an overwhelming influence on sales.

 

[DougFNJ]

I remember when I got my first butterfly keyboard, I didn't dislike it, but found it strange to type on for awhile. You are so used to the old chuckle style keyboard for the longest time, then you loose that key travel, the brain has to retrain itself to adapt to the typing. Its like when I went from a 4 to a 5, the screen was noticeably larger until I got used to it. from a 5 to a 6 Plus, the screen was ginormous until I got used to it, any phone smaller than that became too small. I went to a 7 and thought how time that screen was until I got used to it and the Plus size was HUGE again. The brain is a funny thing.

On the defect note, the issues people have are terrible when it happens, especially if its your only computer. Having keys not type how you need it to type on something you utilize daily for important day to day work is not cool. Then before, sending it away and not getting it back for a week or 2 didn't help the people that had to ship them....what do you work with? How well does a mechanic do if his tools are being serviced? So the problem was very real for the people that experienced it.

The good thing is I am not seeing any issues on the 2019. All indications are showing they appear to have fixed it. But the taste in the mouth left over form so many people having the problems on earlier models pretty much ruined the reputation of the butterfly keyboard for good. I am sure many will celebrate when the new scissor keyboard releases.

 

[pshufd]

I remember when I got my first butterfly keyboard, I didn't dislike it, but found it strange to type on for awhile. You are so used to the old chuckle style keyboard for the longest time, then you loose that key travel, the brain has to retrain itself to adapt to the typing. Its like when I went from a 4 to a 5, the screen was noticeably larger until I got used to it. from a 5 to a 6 Plus, the screen was ginormous until I got used to it, any phone smaller than that became too small. I went to a 7 and thought how time that screen was until I got used to it and the Plus size was HUGE again. The brain is a funny thing.

On the defect note, the issues people have are terrible when it happens, especially if its your only computer. Having keys not type how you need it to type on something you utilize daily for important day to day work is not cool. Then before, sending it away and not getting it back for a week or 2 didn't help the people that had to ship them....what do you work with? How well does a mechanic do if his tools are being serviced? So the problem was very real for the people that experienced it.

The good thing is I am not seeing any issues on the 2019. All indications are showing they appear to have fixed it. But the taste in the mouth left over form so many people having the problems on earlier models pretty much ruined the reputation of the butterfly keyboard for good. I am sure many will celebrate when the new scissor keyboard releases.

You can fix the problem by bringing along an external keyboard.