New Macbook Pro with vega graphics coming soon

koyoot said:
It still will be more expensive to make. 10$ vs 13$.

And that is THE BEST CASE SCENARIO.
Click to expand...
At the current Polaris price.

Wafer cost dropped more than 30%, to compensate for some lower yield and wasted space because of the bigger die size, but the process is mature and these are not huge chips.
 
cube said:
At the current Polaris price.

Wafer cost dropped more than 30%, to compensate for some lower yield and wasted space because of the bigger die size, but the process is mature and these are not huge chips.
Click to expand...
No, not at current Polaris Price.

At the time Polaris was introduced, 14 nm wafers cost 6500$. From each one you got around 575 Polaris 11 dies. Each die cost you 11$.

Vega 12 made on 14 nm Wafer, at this point, where each wafer costs 4500$, each die costs AMD 13$.

If it would be made on that wafer when it cost 6500$ - the GPU die itself would cost 19$, almost twice as much, as Polaris 11 die.

I know you want that GPU to be cheap. But you are expecting GTX 1060 6 GB performance class GPU, with sub 75W power consumption/efficiency to cost under 150$, when GTX 1060 6GB costs twice as much.

It does not work this way.
 
koyoot said:
No, not at current Polaris Price.

At the time Polaris was introduced, 14 nm wafers cost 6500$. From each one you got around 575 Polaris 11 dies. Each die cost you 11$.

Vega 12 made on 14 nm Wafer, at this point, where each wafer costs 4500$, each die costs AMD 13$.

If it would be made on that wafer when it cost 6500$ - the GPU die itself would cost 19$, almost twice as much, as Polaris 11 die.

I know you want that GPU to be cheap. But you are expecting GTX 1060 6 GB performance class GPU, with sub 75W power consumption/efficiency to cost under 150$, when GTX 1060 6GB costs twice as much.

It does not work this way.
Click to expand...
Is that 575 theoretical or actual dies?

You're saying the Vega 12 chip only costs $2 more than a Polaris chip at introduction. If the HBM does not cost that much more, why couldn't a P2000-level consumer card cost $150, when the RX 560 4GiB MSRP is less than that?
 
Last edited:
575 is the maximum number you can get from 300 mm wafer, with 123 mm2 die size.

The same case is for Vega 12. Maximum 333 working dies you can get from 300 mm 14 nm wafer.
 
cube said:
Yields would not be so good two years ago, which is the Polaris comparison point.

It was actually 14 CUs two years ago.
Click to expand...
When AMD released Polaris GPUs, 14 nm yield was at 92-94%. Currently it fluctuates between 95-98%

Worst case scenario: from that 300 mm wafer you get 575 working dies, and 24 dead dies. How good yield it gives you?
 
koyoot said:
When AMD released Polaris GPUs, 14 nm yield was at 92-94%. Currently it fluctuates between 95-98%

Worst case scenario: from that 300 mm wafer you get 575 working dies, and 24 dead dies. How good yield it gives you?
Click to expand...
That means Polaris 11 cost about $0.86 per CU. Vega 12 would cost about $0.70 per CU.

And Vega CUs would be more powerful than Polaris CUs.

It was actually 3 Vega CUs = 4 GCN3 CUs.

$12.15 for Polaris 11 and $14.07 for Vega 12.

But I guess your current yield was for Polaris, which is smaller.

Interestingly, the RX 460 4GiB launched at $119.

The Vega PCBs should be cheaper to make and fill.
 
Last edited:
cube said:
That means Polaris 11 cost about $0.86 per CU. Vega 12 would cost about $0.70 per CU.

And Vega CUs would be more powerful than Polaris CUs.

It was actually 3 Vega CUs = 4 GCN3 CUs.

$12.15 for Polaris 11 and $14.07 for Vega 12.

But I guess your current yield was for Polaris, which is smaller.

Interestingly, the RX 460 4GiB launched at $119.

The Vega PCBs should be cheaper to make and fill.
Click to expand...
You forgot that HBM memory subsystem makes it more expensive, than RX 460, or any Polaris 11/21 GPU?
 
cube said:
I don't care if it's high margin for Apple.
Click to expand...
Don't expect low price for GTX 1060 6GB level of performance at much better efficiency.

Its desktop market. Nobody is stupid to sell that kind of performance, on old node, high manufacturing costs, very cheaply.

AMD can charge for this GPU 199$, and it will be a very good value, looking at what is on the market.
 
koyoot said:
Don't expect low price for GTX 1060 6GB level of performance at much better efficiency.

Its desktop market. Nobody is stupid to sell that kind of performance, on old node, high manufacturing costs, very cheaply.

AMD can charge for this GPU 199$, and it will be a very good value, looking at what is on the market.
Click to expand...
Yes, $400 for a P2000 is way too much if you don't need it for engineering.
 
cube said:
Yes, $400 for a P2000 is way too much if you don't need it for engineering.
Click to expand...
Im not talking about Professional versions of those GPUs.

Gaming oriented Vega 20 will cost 200$, in best case scenario, on desktop. Professional version will be around 400$, at the least, replacing WX 5100 as a WX 5200.
 
koyoot said:
Im not talking about Professional versions of those GPUs.

Gaming oriented Vega 20 will cost 200$, in best case scenario, on desktop. Professional version will be around 400$, at the least, replacing WX 5100 as a WX 5200.
Click to expand...
I am talking about any 75W GPU which is not just a little faster than an RX 560.

You also have to think that many people who own an RX460 or RX560 would be looking for a significant performance bump at about the same price in order to upgrade.

BTW, the P2000 is a bit too long.
 
Last edited:
AMD should only get low margin on the HBM chips. Most of those profits would go to the memory vendor.

The packaging should not get good margin because it just competes against the PCB.
 
cube said:
AMD should only get low margin on the HBM chips. Most of those profits would go to the memory vendor.

The packaging should not get good margin because it just competes against the PCB.
Click to expand...
I have no idea how you worked that out...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Back
Top