Allen_Wentz
macrumors 601
Some version of gray will always be an option because gray works best to minimize the impact of the computer color on viewing colors on-screen. It can be fairly important to image pros.
New MacBook Pros With M2 Pro and M2 Max Chips Now 'Well Into Development'
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Allen_Wentz
macrumors 601
Mac Studio is not a replacement for anything. It is an (IMO awesome) appropriate new product in the mix.
Agreed there is a place for three headless Macs. With the excellent Studio existing folks should not look for stronger Minis; Minis should stay as the bottom end. Then Mac Pro should be the solid top-end workstation.
chucker23n1
macrumors G3
Except for you.
"But this is tech, and was does not cut it."
"the existing M1 MBP is outdated."
"Apple is a tech vendor losing sales every day right now due to not having 14"/16" M2 MBPs in the line."
Last edited:
wanha
macrumors 68020
You make it sound like this is just done with a snap of the fingers rather than taking countless man-years to turn into actual shippable products that ship in volume.
We know next to nothing about Apple's design and supply constraints and problems.
Anyone who has worked in a big tech company knows that getting new products out the door is hard, tedious, complex work that always takes a lot longer than anyone on the outside would think.
Last edited:
T'hain Esh Kelch
macrumors 604
Smaller electronics in the chips means they use less power and thus produce less heat, or alternatively, Apple can dial up the speed more, when switching from 5nm chips to 3nm chips. It is not going to make them 200% faster, but the jump from M2 to M3 is thus likely significantly larger than the one from M1 to M2.
We want as fast computers, that use as little power as possible, and therefor the prospect of 3nm chips is exciting. But if you need a machine now, don't wait, just buy, they are already very fast and energy efficient, now we have moved away from Intel chips. But this is summer 2023 at the earliest, and Pro and Max M3 chips fall 2023 at the earliest, and possibly first spring 2024.
You plug in 4 Thunderbolt cables to your laptop?????? Lol
JippaLippa
macrumors 68000
You'll have to wait for the M3 for true 3nm.
JippaLippa
macrumors 68000
Hopefully also bootcamp with a real windows 11 for ARM OS.
The windows side of things is moving quite slowly...
wanha
macrumors 68020
How dare you write such a logical and well-reasoned post in a place like this! Bravo... I mean, shame!
You seem to be mixing together node size and microarchitecture.
Assuming Apple keeps to the same naming convention it has been using with the A-series chips, M1/M2/M3 should refer to the microarchitecture (M1 is A14-based = Firestorm/Icestorm cores; M2 is A15-based = Avanche/Blizzard cores; etc.), not the process.
It so happens that they also changed the process between M1 and M2, going from N5 to N5P, but you can have a process change with or without an architecture change, and an architecture change with or without a process change.
Thus, for instance, the next generation of M2 MBP's could be released either earlier (fall 2022?) on N5P, or later (spring 2023?) on N3. How large a jump there is in performance vs. the curent MBP's will turn on which of these they do. [It's also possible that they do both, though some think that unlikely.]
And yes, of course if you need it now, you need to buy it now. But given that the MBP's are at the end of their product cycle, I'd say wait if you can. Then when the new models come out, you can either buy them and benefit from their improved features, or buy one of the discontinued models and benefits from the discounts.
Last edited:
chucker23n1
macrumors G3
Yes, but the question, the way I interpreted it, is why a process node change could be exciting.
It's possible that M3 Pro is still built with N5P, but that would make the chip a lot larger, which may not be practical.
diamond.g
macrumors G5
Prolly due to PCIe 3/4 bandwidth limitations. PCIe 5 (in the grand scheme of things) isn't "common" yet since Intel just started support for it this generation (and it appears to be limited to slots so M.2 is still stuck on gen4). AMD is adding support this year. I'd guess Apple would add support on the Apple Silicon Mac Pro, but don't see the use case for adding support in their other devices (at least until Thunderbolt get another upgrade).
chucker23n1
macrumors G3
Yeah, even Thunderbolt 4 is still PCIe 3-derived. Intel dragged their feet on PCIe support (they had other worries); Tiger Lake finally added 4.0 and Alder Lake 5.0. So maybe they'll now a 5.0-derived Tb 5.
rebl
macrumors newbie
I am really hoping they update the Mac Studio as well. Even tho it has been recently released it would make no sense to update the Macbooks, Mac Mini, showcase the Mac Pro all with M2 but sell the Studio with the old chips.
IMO from now on Apple should update all their desktop devices at the same time if they release a new chip.
IMO from now on Apple should update all their desktop devices at the same time if they release a new chip.
chucker23n1
macrumors G3
It's less than ideal, but it's pragmatic.
They're not gonna update all Macs (or all desktop Macs) in tandem any more than they updated all iPads in tandem. It would require needlessly delaying some Macs just for the sake of some customers not feeling left out.
There will always be some devices that aren't the latest and greatest.
rebl
macrumors newbie
That doesnt sound ideal for me since they now have only 4 chips to sell that follow an easy pattern (M1, M2) while before Intel chip names were not easy to understand for regular customers.
Imagine all devices have the M2, who will buy a M1 Studio? Sales would break in so it shouldnt be in Apples interest aswell?
Absolutely this. Apple needs to stop waiting for the next big thing and put out the best thing they can as soon as they can. And then when a new technology comes along, take advantage of it as soon as possible. Apple in the last decade has gotten too stiff and inflexible. Agility will give them the most benefit.
I'd like to see Apple get to the point where they can put out all of the M-series chips of a generation within ~6 months into all of their computers. Mixing generations just harms consumers -- do I get the new generation base chip with better efficiency and single-core speed (and perhaps a chassis redesign) or do I get last generation's step-up chip for better multicore and graphics? Why should we have to choose? It's just needless punishment for pros and enthusiasts.
That said, it doesn't make sense to me to put out the M-series chips as Apple's first things on 3nm. Yields with a new process will always start out bad, so it is better to refine the process with small chips (A-series) rather than having to throw away 99% of your large chips due to defects.
Different markets. As the Mini probably wouldn't get the Max or Ultra chips.
cocoua
macrumors 65816
Just hoping all M2 max systems will be released in shorter time than M1 Max. Pretty unfair for desktop user to buy a system 6 months older than the same version in a laptop chasis.
If M1 Max life span before being update is 18 months, 6 months is 1/3 of it and is a lot!!
Price difference between MBP16 M1 Max and MS M1 Max with same specs is just 1000€ and you get backlit keyboard, magic trackpad, 17hours battery and a XDR 16” retina display AND a 6 months newer processor/GPU
If M1 Max life span before being update is 18 months, 6 months is 1/3 of it and is a lot!!
Price difference between MBP16 M1 Max and MS M1 Max with same specs is just 1000€ and you get backlit keyboard, magic trackpad, 17hours battery and a XDR 16” retina display AND a 6 months newer processor/GPU
Last edited:
rebl
macrumors newbie
Depends if the Mini M2 Pro comes close to Studio M1 Max performance but costs half of it ...
I agree Apple should break their product lifecycle. Personally I would get mad if I bought a Studio M1 Max / Ultra, waited 6 weeks for it and one month later they release the M2 Max / Ultra. But once they need to break the cycle IMO.
At least we've seen Apple is willing to break their long lasting paradigms a lot of times recently, e.g. with removing touchbar, bringing ports back, making the Macbook Pro thicker, selling repair parts... Things that seemed impossible a few years ago.
Maybe we didnt heard about the M2 Studio because its just a no-brainer silent update. The Mac Mini M2 Pro is a new product that is worth a news.
Cant agree more!
chucker23n1
macrumors G3
It's the same as with Intel, and with other chip designers. Whether you call it "Ice Lake", "Tiger Lake", "Alder Lake", "10th generation", "11th generation", "12th generation", "M1", "M2", "M3": you still aren't going to roll out the entire range from smartwatch to phone to laptop to desktop to workstation to server. It just doesn't make any sense from an engineering point of view.
If there weren't any competition, maybe you'd delay until you can ship in sync. But there is, so why do that?
People who need the raw power it offers, in a desktop. In the high-end workflows the Studio is for, the M2 Max won't be as fast as the M1 Ultra.
It's precisely because they want to "put out the best thing they can as soon as the can" that the M2 already exists and the M2 Pro does not. The M2 is ready, so they ship it.
Yes — but that isn't avoidable.
Zdigital2015
macrumors 601
But Apple gave you three independent Thunderbolt 4 buses instead of 2 shared Thunderbolt 3 buses in the 2016-2020 Intel MacBook Pros, so Pros actually got a bump up in I/O, not a reduction. If you’re going to be upset, be upset that maybe the SDCard and HDMI robbed you of a fourth TB4 port. Redirect your frustration at the user who HAD TO HAVE those ports. Unless you campaigned for the return of those ports as well in which case I will refer you to a classic Rolling Stones song to assuage your heart.