Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
All great points. But I would argue that a wireless device is not what one should use if backlight is

Except that in my use case, In a recording studio control room, wireless is particularly useful as I often need to move the keyboard some distance across the room in order to use the piece of equipment that is preventing me from having both hands on the keyboard. When using my preferred software, Logic Pro, this isn't as much of the problem as much of what I needed a wireless backlit keyboard for can be accomplished with the excellent Logic ipad app. Unfortunately not every studio is equipped with Logic.

The obvious solution would be to include backlighting for those that want it but allow it to be turned off when not needed much like it is currently on the MBP.
 
Dear Apple,
Please make this.
Yours sincerely,
Everyone with a Mac mini in their living room.
Bonus Idea: The trackpad has a single colour OLED display. You hold a function key and it displays a numerical keypad, calculator, home/pg-up+down etc.
View attachment 575651
Your basically describing an ipad... a 1st generation mini would do great; 100-150$... possible consideration?
I don't think they'll make what you hope for otherwise; too limited use case.
 
+1 for numpad. Don't know why you wouldn't want one, it's the sole reason I don't have a BT kb.

Also would be nice if Apple made a nice mechanical keyboard again. Ha! Yeah right...

I like my 101's at work but at home no so much. I have a Poker II w/ reds that I adore but I'd not use it on the job.

I have the current magic mouse and don't really understand why people dislike using it. The surface is extremely smooth and feels really good. Also the clicks are extremely positive & deliberate and so is the mouse when you move it on any surface. It doesn't scratch very easily too.


YMMV

Unless you claw a mouse they're not exactly nice to use.

Dropped using a mouse over 20 years ago. Kensington trackball and as soon as the trackpad came out switched to that.
Moving a mouse around on a desk full of papers, stuff etc. is just not practical. Add to that that sometimes it doesn't work depending on the surface it's on and cramps the hand.
Only complaint about my trackpad is battery usage, but I just switched to eneloops.
Hope that cures that issue.
For sure we need a full size keyboard with numeric section.

Should not be too difficult to offer two keyboards.

Kensington slim blade here, I also use the trackpad but I'm just to used to the trackball to ever use it for more than a bit at a time.
 
interesting to see what the MM2 might include.

I LOVE the Magic Mouse...I know I might be in the 1% minority here but the mouse is very easy on my hands. I think because I am not resting my hand on it like a "regular" or "ergonomic" mouse. ergonomic mice seem comfortable but i realize my hand is a dead weight on it...I prefer the light touch/grasp I have on the Magic Mouse now. i use it daily for design work and have never had cramps or any complaints on the feel of it.
 
I notice that with the Magic Mouse my hand is not resting on it, but instead kinda hovers over it. If it was 2x taller, it would fit the shape of my palm. But that's never going to happen.

Is there an ergonomic replacement for Magic Mouse? With the multi-finger gestures support?
 
All great points. But I would argue that a wireless device is not what one should use if backlight is

But.. i hate wires (wires and connectors are starting to feel old like cd-roms and usb sticks) and i like lights behind my keys. Much higher contrast and possible to use in dark(er) rooms.

I don't disagree that swapping AA is more convenient. How much more? I have no idea. Two AA already lasts me a month of heavy use, multiple months more when it's not in use. I highly doubt they're going to go from that to something that needs to sit on a charger nightly.

I think it's strange to prefer swapping a part to charging. With a battery the size of an iphone's battery (and i think it can fit two in place of the current 2 AA's including the springs and screw-cap). That would be about 4 times the power. BT 4.2 uses half the power or less, and a led backlit can't drain that much (esp if it turns off when not used). I can imagine this thing being able to go months without charging, and when it does need charging the backlight could be disabled to preserve battery giving you a week or so to charge it for 2 hours. Seems like a no brainer to me.

(i did a quick calculation based on this and the alkaline option: http://www.marco.org/2010/08/20/charging-an-iphone-with-aa-batteries and hope someone will correct me :)
 
I notice that with the Magic Mouse my hand is not resting on it, but instead kinda hovers over it. If it was 2x taller, it would fit the shape of my palm. But that's never going to happen.

Is there an ergonomic replacement for Magic Mouse? With the multi-finger gestures support?
i had complaints all my life with mouse rests and spent huge on ergonomically correct stuff. My fysiotherapist showed me to move my position occasionally (using the mouse straight in front of you for a while) and said i should stop buying stuff to support body parts that are perfectly capable of supporting themselves ;-) no more RSI for 6 years now. I need an A3 size mousemat tho, not restricting my movement because i have a postage stamp sized mousemat.
It matters how heavy it is tho: with the mobee charger in it its best for me, Alkaline is worse (too heavy) and lithium is anooyingly heavy.
 
But.. i hate wires (wires and connectors are starting to feel old like cd-roms and usb sticks)

I feel the exact same here, wires running across my tray feels old and dated, like floppy disc, AOL, 56k, DOS, Windows 95 old.
 
Not the biggest news, but quite interesting.

The two biggest problems I had with the Magic Mouse are
1) Replacing batteries every couple of months (and the weight of the device because of the batteries)
2) Poor ergonomics.

I tried used the Magic Mouse for awhile, but my hand started to cramp up, so I switched over to a more ergonomic gaming mouse, which solved the issue for me. But having rechargeable batteries built within the mouse and keyboard sound interesting and might help reduce the size and weight of the devices.

I think the ergonomics are great (and yes I have big hands). When the mouse is small - and you hold it right - you can make very big movements without sacrificing the accuracy.
 
Yes, and the mouse that comes free with every Dell or HP that I've ever bought or been given at work finds its way to the donations pile very quickly too. This is how mass-market computers work, and have worked since the 1980s at least.

One singular mouse design is never going to be equally usable for everyone. If you want to buy a computer without some of that money financing the production of a mouse you don't want, then buy a computer like a Mac Mini or any of the MacBook line which don't come with one. Otherwise, you are complaining about what you get with an iMac or Mac Pro; put it up for sale on eBay and get more money back for it that what it inflated the machine's cost by in the first place (which is, honestly, maybe $5, probably $0 given Apple's price point strategy).



Um, I have considered that possibility, just not catered to it. I can't speak for Apple but given their work in the accessibility space I'm sure they have at least considered common disabilities.

And, yes, a mouse from Logitech doubtless works for you better than Apple's mouse. But not every mouse from Logitech, right? I say this because Logitech makes some mouses strikingly similar to Apple's Magic Mouse in ergonomics and design, as does Microsoft. Unless you are expecting Apple to have a box-to-order system with every iMac sold where they have you select from one of a dozen mouses they produced and put that mouse and only that mouse in the box before you buy it, you are just pissing in the wind here. Apple doesn't make a mouse for people with your disability; that is fine. Other companies do, and Apple's computers work just as well with those other companies' mouses as they do with their own Magic Mouse. It seems to be a problem with an as-easy-as-concievably-possible workaround.



More reason why you should buy a Logitech mouse. In fact, all the reason you should need, really :)



Not an expert in ergonomics says the ergonomics of something are bad. Gotcha. Again, if she doesn't like the MM, she shouldn't use one.



Whew, you finally made sense there at the end. Good for you, choosing the mouse that works well for you. Again, though, your three anecdotes (yourself, your wife, your daughter) do not add up to data. I'll give you four more anecdotes - myself, my wife, and our two oldest daughters all strongly prefer the Magic Mouse - and one more to bolster your claims - my teenage son hates it with a passion because it sucks for FPS MMO games. Still, not data. You buy what makes sense for you, and I buy what makes sense for me (for our household we use the Magic Mouse but my son plugs a $5 plastic mouse in for gaming). It doesn't need to be hard.

Apple's mouse designs have been along the same lines since the early 2000s (or was it even the 1990s when the Pro Mouse was introduced?) Fads in mouse design amongst other manufacturers have been all over the place in the intervening years, but two things have always been true: the incremental cost of the drop-in mouse on Apple computers has always been incredibly low because Apple produces just one design in astronomical quantities, and the purchaser has always been able to sell or even say screw the environment and throw that mouse in the trash and buy into any of the other fad devices if they wanted something other than what was thrown in.

Seriously. Go to eBay and search for Magic Mouse. Consider that if you bought a $1999 iMac and got a magic mouse "free", you can sell that drop-in for $35-40 nearly instantly, or have a listing for $45-50 stay up for a week or so before someone takes you up on the offer; you can then take that $40 and apply it towards any mouse of your choosing, which will plug into an available USB port or connect via bluetooth and work just as seamlessly in OS X as the Magic Mouse (without some features, of course, but other mouse manufacturers have followed Apple's lead with touch-sensitive areas). Consider that if Apple stopped selling the Magic Mouse altogether they would reduce the price of that iMac to ... $1999. Which means the "free" Magic Mouse really is free to you (not to Apple, but they aren't exactly hurting in the revenue department these days). To Apple, it is nearly-free marketing, a way to showcase the cool stuff and Apple computer can do out of the box, compared to the Dell with the $0.50 drop-in plastic yet still "non-ergonomic" mouse, which is why they do it. And, of course, there are enough of us out here who actually do love the Magic Mouse and its ergonomics to keep that eBay industry alive and prospering with more buyers than sellers.

From your posts one does get the distinct impression that where Apple is concerned you find it had to be critical or objective. Indeed I would go as far as to say that if Apple provided you with an 'actual mouse', provided it had the Apple logo stamped along its back your comment would be - 'isn't this good' :rolleyes:
 
So if Logitech makes great mouses for you, why should Apple have them build one with an Apple logo on it, instead of you just go out and buy Logitech mouses?

If there is a different mouse out there that works better for you than the one Apple makes, why are you stressing out over the details of the Apple one instead of just happily using the one that third party makes?

In any case, I think mouse ergonomics are not as cut and dried as some people here think they are. Are you holding the mouse wrong? If it is causing you discomfort or pain, yes, likely so. If you just aren't comfortable with it then it could be that you just need a differently shaped mouse.

Apple mouses are not and have not ever been (at least in the post-hockey-puck era) designed to be held in the center of the palm like one would a Microsoft or Logitech "ergonomic" mouse; they have been designed to float at the fingertips. And, yes, if you are constantly picking your mouse up you need to adjust its sensitivity settings; that isn't a comfortable operation with any mouse, but especially not the type that Apple sells.

So far as ergonomics go, the golden rule is that you need to make sure your wrist is kept straight both horizontally and vertically while operating the mouse. Personally, I find this easier with the small fingertip mouse or a trackpad than with the big bulbous "ergonomic" mouse designs (for those to keep my wrist straight I need an elevated wrist support, which I find uncomfortable). But, if that is the mouse design that your hands need to maintain a straight wrist then you should be looking at those designs. There are dozens if not hundreds of companies making them, with at least a good five or six quality efforts to pick from. Hell, Microsoft puts an "ergonomic" label on its "wedge" mouse which is intended to be held and used exactly like the Apple magic mouse, so if you feel you need an "ergonomic" label on something without carrying a big plastic bulb around in your laptop bag, there's even that option for you.

Some mouse makers claim that a "vertical" grip is better from an arm comfort perspective, but that seems to be completely not backed up by any scientific study. That said, if having your grip vertical like with a joystick is significantly more comfortable than having it flat like you are typing on a keyboard, then there are a number of options out there for you with that design as well.

All of which is to say that a good number of people find the Apple mouse design to be really comfortable to use. It isn't because we just made ourselves get used to it; it is for the same reason as there have always been a variety of mouse designs - various people find different ways of holding a mouse comfortable. If you don't like "flat" mouses, then look to other more full-spectrum mouse designers and see what Microsoft or Logitech has to offer. I won't tell you you're deluded by thinking that bulbous ball of plastic is comfortable if you'll show the same respect to me.
Feel exactly the same!! As a graphic designer I think it is very accurate and I NEVER pick it up on my 27" screen.
 
Sigh, okay, you win. They are using ancient systems which require ancient and error-prone methods of data entry, but I will no longer label them nor the tools they require "anachronistic". Whatever.

Again, if you happen to be in one of these mind-numbing jobs, you have my absolute sympathies, and my permission to buy any 110-key keyboard made by any company out there. I hereby release you from any obligation you may have felt to only type on a keyboard produced by Apple, Inc.

I don't see why your dead-end job should dictate what is on my desk, though. And, yes, I can buy a non-Apple keyboard just as easily as you can, should Apple switch to selling gargantuan extended keyboards again. Yet, Apple has chosen for several years to sell just one keyboard style, and to cater that keyboard style to the people who do not need a numeric keyboard (not even a goofy one superimposed on the UIO/JKL/M<> keys). I'd submit that Apple are not idiots, and know which of the two market segments buys more keyboards.

Ha! if only you knew what I do for a living I'm afraid you would be walking down the street with generous helpings of egg on face. :p Boring job indeed, how this made me smile. :)
 
I wish other mice would come remotely close to the feel of the touch top of the magic mouse. Unfortunately I have huge hands and it's just too flat for me, I still use it for my media macbook as that touch top is super convenient.

I don't know how you hold it. But for me holding like this, works super convenient! Just move your finger and you've got the whole screen. (27" imac sensitivity: SLOW)
IMG_0899.jpg
 
Is the picture related to this article? I mean.. Since when did U.S. FCC use Korean..? Anyways.. I also hope for some backlit and numberpad... Touch ID would be nice.
 
Please for the love of all things, offer a black-keys-on-aluminum keyboard, just like the MBPs. I wash my hands more than anyone I know and I still cant keep my keyboard clean for more than a week.

Also, put the number pad on the wireless keyboard. Most people doing production work of any kind probably use it pretty often.
 
Not the way the Magic Mouse handles inputs. Apple wanted the old single-button whole-hand press to be a left click still, so if you have all your fingers on the mouse and click, that's what it registers. The right click is a physical click with nothing touching the left side, etc.

I'd hope the revision allows it as a software option though. In a dream mouse it would be force touch (meaning, no actual button click, but haptic feedback on enough pressure to click), which can give left/right feedback (a left click and the left side feels like it clicked; a right click and the right side feels it) and which can judge left/right pressure differences better than the large mechanical clicker could.

But, we'll see. It seems left+right is a gesture that only gets used in games, right? And wouldn't someone playing games have a wired mouse anyway? Maybe I'm wrong there though.

I thought they could just make options for:
1. Click with two fingers = simultaneous left and right click
2. Touch/tap with another finger while right-clicking = left-click while holding right-click (and vice versa)

But it's not that simple huh?

Yeah I think it's only useful in games, but I'm not that avid of a gamer to have a special gaming mouse. I mostly use controller, but I would sometimes like to switch to keyboard and mouse for sniping.
 
But.. i hate wires (wires and connectors are starting to feel old like cd-roms and usb sticks) and i like lights behind my keys. Much higher contrast and possible to use in dark(er) rooms.
Unfortunately, unless we see something groundbreaking here, you won't be getting away from wires wth this thing :(
Except that in my use case, In a recording studio control room, wireless is particularly useful as I often need to move the keyboard some distance across the room in order to use the piece of equipment that is preventing me from having both hands on the keyboard. When using my preferred software, Logic Pro, this isn't as much of the problem as much of what I needed a wireless backlit keyboard for can be accomplished with the excellent Logic ipad app. Unfortunately not every studio is equipped with Logic.

The obvious solution would be to include backlighting for those that want it but allow it to be turned off when not needed much like it is currently on the MBP.
anither obvious solution is for you to buy a keyboard that fits your needs. I realize that sounds snarky, but I highly doubt apple is designing this keyboard with content creators (like yourself) at the top of the list. As has been said many times in the thread already, it's a dumbed down Kay oars as it is.

Regardless, I hope everyone gets what they want out of this thing. I couldn't be less excited. There are better keyboards out there for less, unless aesthetic is the buyers number one criteria.
 
I think it's strange to prefer swapping a part to charging.
The argument is, if you forget to charge, you're SOL of you can't swap a battery in real quick. People are also working with the assumption that this thing will kill it's battery much faster than previous models. I see no reason to assume that, yet.

If charging a product weekly or monthly is such a grievous inconvenience, people really do have amazingly wonderful lives and should take a moment to reflect on what they're actually complaining about.
 
I feel the exact same here, wires running across my tray feels old and dated, like floppy disc, AOL, 56k, DOS, Windows 95 old.

Now, there is a field where Jony Ive could make things slimmer or disappear.

The cable mess behind or under a desk and at home behind cabinets etc. is quite something.

As a friend of mine said: I will put all the cables out of sight and hope I never have to move
or replace anything.
 
I hope Apple would do three things:

1) Add a backlit in keyboard
2) Offer a full-size bluetooth keyboard with num pad
3) And add solar panel for charging. It's so simple and so useful solution for every wireless device. I don't know why Apple didn't make it before, like Logitech and others.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Benjamin Frost
I see most posters manage to skirt round the fact that the MM sucks the life out of batteries big time.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.