I see it as though they are standing by their product, the 4th gen keyboard, by covering it for 4 years out of the gate. They believe in it, believe that it won’t fail for as many customers and therefore they are putting their money where their mouth is.
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New MBP already in keyboard program (!)
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I see it as though they are standing by their product, the 4th gen keyboard, by covering it for 4 years out of the gate. They believe in it, believe that it won’t fail for as many customers and therefore they are putting their money where their mouth is.
I don't remember it quite that way. The iPhone came out in June, and reports were almost immediate of signal degradation. Apple tells people you're holding it wrong, and by July Steve Jobs comes on stage. I feel he was deflecting, and marginalizing the problem with anntenna gate.
Apple's iPhone 4 Antennagate Timeline
I don't think a free bumper case is fixing the problem ASAP. Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but the bumper case is merely a work around
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Perception is reality, and since MBPs come with a one year warranty (at least in the US), adding the 2019 model does not do anything other then show a lack of confidence.
The 2018 MBPs (released in July 2018) are getting ready to drop off standard warranty so for their sake I'm happy that apple stepped up to the plate. Using your logic, why didn't they do that last year with the 3rd gen keyboards and not wait until now? I have to believe they were extremely confident the silicone membrane would fix the problem.
In all honesty, I do hope that Apple fixes the issue with the butterfly keyboard.
Holy crap.
If that's not an admission that the whole keyboard design is faulty I don't know what is...
Apple ought to take the 2015 design for keyboard/trackpad/top case, then design "a new lower case" for underneath it.
And perhaps strengthen the top lid (display) as well, even if it adds a millimeter or two.
Either integrate the touchbar into the older top case, or jettison it.
I sense that most folks wouldn't care if it just disappeared.
And perhaps strengthen the top lid (display) as well, even if it adds a millimeter or two.
Either integrate the touchbar into the older top case, or jettison it.
I sense that most folks wouldn't care if it just disappeared.
This is what they are attempting to head up with including the 2019 IMHO. The perception that they keyboard issues are still around and you may have an expensive repair looming. Similar to how your Toyota purchase has a short "bumper to bumper" warranty, but a longer "powertrain" warranty. To counter the risk you're worried about an expensive repair within your new purchase expected lifetime.
There were many people suggesting to buy AppleCare+ to guard against KB risk in the 2018. Apple adding the 2019 at the start allows consumers who purchase to skip AppleCare+ if they were only considering that out of fear of a KB issue. I see this as Apple taking the right steps to help restore confidence...
If the KB issues are fixed users will report it by not having tons of threads about failed KBs. If you purchase you're not worried you have a ticking time bomb or that Apple is trying to juice you for AppleCare+ as a "mandatory" buy.
We have more confidence in our keyboard replacement program than the actual keyboard - Apple.
Read the fine print
“The type of service will be determined after the keyboard is examined and may involve the replacement of one or more keys or the whole keyboard.“
To me it reads as if the entire keyboard may or may not be replaced.
I actually think this is a good thing. Free extended warranty on the keyboard essentially. This would make me feel better about buying it.
It's still limited to the same four years after purchase, meaning this is an admission that afterward you're basically screwed. My current MBP is older than four years.
People keep comparing the butterfly keyboard to antennagate. I was an early iPhone4 purchaser and I was unable to duplicate the lost signal problem, although it was demonstrated at the time that basically every phone available would lose signal if you held it in just the right way. I personally thought the whole thing was overblown, but Apple reacted and worked to solve the problem.
This keyboard situation is way different. It's basically another Jony Ive design disaster but now there's no Steve to say stop and start over. This keyboard is like Ive's original hockey puck mouse or his PowerMac G4 Cube. Both of these things were huge failures and were dumped quickly, but Apple has been trying to save this stupid keyboard for four years now and it's just not happening. I'm convinced Steve would have dumped it.
Jony Ive is a great designer and all but every once in a while he has a extraordinarily bad idea. This keyboard is definitely one of them.
Nonsense. Is it an admission that after the one-year warranty on iPhones you're basically screwed?
You get a one year warranty, extendable to three for an added cost. Because consumer confidence is low due to keyboard issues, for good reason, they extending the warranty on the keyboard to four years for no cost at all. I don't see how that freebie addition can be perceived as anything but good.
Very different type of product, price point and expectation set there.
Let’s be careful about cross comparing them just because they’re both made by Apple.
It’s not that simple.
Fine - Is it an admission that after the one-year warranty on iMacs you're basically screwed? The point is its a silly statement to make about warranties, regardless of product and price point. A longer warranty is not an admission of failure.
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It is in this case, and you know that very well I think.
It’s also ironic you just chose an iMac since that does actually come with a reliable keyboard. Lol
[doublepost=1558550808][/doublepost]Guys, this isn’t a normal “extended warranty”.
It’s the ”keyboard service program”.
The entire thing is about dealing with admitted keyboard failure issues.
Including a new device in such a program straight away is flat out admitting they perhaps still don’t have this solved.
It’s totally different than if something just has a good extended warranty for any/all who knows what might happen stuff.
This is a known problem they are still fighting, and essentially admitting isn’t solved.
I suppose there is also another nice side-effect to this. If you want a free battery replacement at some point during the first 4 years after purchase, or have any issues with the speakers or trackpad, or have some (very minor) scratches on your top case that are annoying you, you can just bring your MBP in claiming you have keyboard issues, and they will replace it completely for free. Obviously that doesn't justify the issues to begin with, but it's a probably unintended and for the customer positive side-effect of the issues aswell as Apple's design decision that a keyboard replacement replaces the entire top case.
Technically they can check your keyboard for any issues to confirm what you say is true, but since a vast majority of these keyboard issues are more sporadic in nature (i.e. a key only double-types 1 out of 10/20/100/... times it is pressed), Apple seems to be fairly lax about confirming these issues and from what I've heard Apple usually takes people's word on it. So in essence, you don't just get free 4-year extended warranty for the keyboard, but for a bunch of things aswell, in particular also for the battery. At the end of the 4 years, many people are well over 500, if not over 1000 battery cycles, which means that for most users, the battery lasts at least 1-2 hours shorter than it did when it was fresh. Usually a battery replacement costs $129-199, so you are essentially getting that for free as long as you are fine with fibbing a little about having issues even if you don't have any (and if you do have issues, then of course you don't even need to lie).
Technically they can check your keyboard for any issues to confirm what you say is true, but since a vast majority of these keyboard issues are more sporadic in nature (i.e. a key only double-types 1 out of 10/20/100/... times it is pressed), Apple seems to be fairly lax about confirming these issues and from what I've heard Apple usually takes people's word on it. So in essence, you don't just get free 4-year extended warranty for the keyboard, but for a bunch of things aswell, in particular also for the battery. At the end of the 4 years, many people are well over 500, if not over 1000 battery cycles, which means that for most users, the battery lasts at least 1-2 hours shorter than it did when it was fresh. Usually a battery replacement costs $129-199, so you are essentially getting that for free as long as you are fine with fibbing a little about having issues even if you don't have any (and if you do have issues, then of course you don't even need to lie).
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." It doesn't matter what you call it, the only thing that matters is the practical effect it has on customer purchases. As far as I can tell, they're saying they will fix keyboard issues for four years for no additional cost. Call it "clickity-clackity-keyboardy-wordy-word" for all it matters. The importance things are: four years, keyboard issues, and no cost. Everything else is just noise.
Semantics aside, a user that purchases a Macbook Pro today can get, at a minimum, a new keyboard in May 2023. There is nothing you can say to argue that isn't pretty awesome. If repairs in 2023 are anything like they are today, that user would get a whole new top case with battery and all. In theory, in 2025 there will be 2019-era Macbook Pros with newish keyboards and low-cycle batteries. I'm not upset about that.
Sure I can - A new keyboard design that we don't have to worry about at all - like the last gen ones.
lol
Seriously, I'm just exhausted with this whole thing. I'd like to buy a new MacBook at some point, but their insistence on continuing to hit different nails with this same hammer is so beyond frustrating.
And service programs and more coverage are "nice to haves", yes, but it doesn't get away from the frustration of problems, the downtime caused by them, time lost dealing with repairs in store, the huge hassles of having to possibly machine swap, etc. -- It all just gets dramatically in the way of getting things done, which is ostensibly why most buy their machine I would presume.
I don't really want to be given complimentary barf bags.
Rather, I'd prefer to stop being served sh*t sandwiches
I won't judge the 2019 keyboards yet. I'm also definitely not going to buy one yet either.
The "different material" explanation, while way too vague, does seem to be in the right direction though. This reddit thread has an amazing analysis of the issue and seems to suggest it is something with the domes. A user on this forum has also explained that the metal of the domes is weak, gets flattened over time, and simply reshaping a part of it fixes the issue temporarily. So, at least in theory, if Apple chose a material for these metal domes that is less prone to deforming, that could be a total fix. I'll wait and see before I judge.
I absolutely agree with you here... The extras offered here are only good for users who have purchased the machines, such as myself.
If the user is concerned about it they can skip these newer laptops entirely and wait on the redesign to see what they bring to the table.
All that being said, I have had zero problems with my keyboard on my 2018 MBP. I clean it once or twice a week (well I clean the whole computer since I'm a neat freak), but I live in a super dusty part of town so everything gets a layer of dust on it. That being said, I could have a failure in 6 months or so who knows?
I rarely own a laptop more than 4 years so the program covers me well enough. I gift my old laptops to family or friends, but I'll see how "bad" mine is keyboard wise before I do that this time around.
The reality here though is Apple is a boutique computer manufacturer. So you have to decide if you like their current offerings any skip any you don't like. Be it for reliability concerns or stuff like soldered on RAM or any of the other anti-repair and upgrade stuff they're doing...
Especially considering you’ll get a completely new topcase including a brand new battery. It’s a pretty good replacement plan imo.
If the new material is to fix the problem, why is 2019 included in the keyboard replacement program? I have a feeling that the new material or whatever other BS they are trying to sell makes .0001% difference in the longevity and quality of the keyboard compared to the previous year model, hence the 2019 is included. This does not give me much confidence in the product. I wish they abandon this atrocious keyboard and switched back to the old design.
I don't think this is the case, the new material are better, but the reason Apple gave the keyboard repair program to the 2019 pros is because they are still using the butterfly name and it has gained bad rep so by giving 4 years Apple is saying we got you covered with keyboard right from the start of the purchase.
Does anyone know if you submit a late 2016 MacBook Pro in for repairs if they replace it with a quieter, GEN 3 Keyboard or if you simply get the GEN 1 keyboard? Thanks
You will get Gen1 or Gen2, but definitely not Gen3. Afaik 2016/17 MBPs cannot receive the 3rd generation butterfly in a replacement, only 2018/19 models can.