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New MBP already in keyboard program (!)
- Thread starter snowboarder
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I was under the impression that any future repairs will use the 4th gen keyboard, regardless of model year. Prior to the 4th gen keyboard, what you posted was dead on correct, 2016/2017 models got the gen2 keyboards and the 2018's got the 3rd gen.
There have been posts by folks who have been frustrated by Apple due to having sporadic issues with their keyboard. They have sent them in for repair and have had Apple send them back claiming they could not replicate the issue. If you are simply counting on Apple taking your word for it and doing a keyboard replacement based on a claimed issue, that may not be the case. I wouldn’t be surprised if they become more vigilant than ever in denying claims. You may find all you get out of it is a week without your computer and a note from Apple.
A fact that many are not considering, loosing your primary notebook for a period of time is beyond inconvenient if you rely on the hardware for a living. Even with back up systems it's plain tedious. At a minimum the 4th Gen Butterfly keyboard should be as reliable as the 2015 models, if not forget it...
Q-6
It definitely is tedious. If you own the computer for recreational use it is maybe not a big deal, but if it is your primary business tool it’s a pain in the arse as a minimum, even if you have a plan B.
Not to mention that the type of behavior of sending in your machine with a falsely claimed issue, simply to get a new keyboard and battery, may well result in increased difficulties and frustration for those who are having legitimate issues in getting a repair.
If I was in Apple’s position, you couldn’t really blame them for denying all claims that are not easily repeatable and replicated, because you *know* people are going to try to make claims just get replacements after several years. That may leave folks with sporadic issues having to send theirs in repeatedly and crossing their fingers that Apple can replicate it this time around.
Exactly people are already implying this would be a mechanism to get a free battery replacement, by misleading Apple. I tend to agree a level of abuse will occur which will likely only result in greater difficulty for those with genuine issues that are intermittent.
Apple knows how to play this game, ask anyone with a dead 2011 15" due to dGPU failure; no start, no diagnosis, no fix under extended warranty. Surprise, surprise should the dGPU catastrophically fail the notebook wont start. The wording on the keyboard warranty extension is after all explicit...
Q-6
Yes. Among other things the wording states that it may “involve the replacement of one or more keys or the whole keyboard” So depending on whether or not they can replicate the issue or not, the result of sending it in can run the gamut from “We could not replicate” and they send it back with no repair, to getting a replacement key or two to a full replacement.
Only a guess, but my guess is they are going to deny more claims than ever if they can’t find repeatable and reproducible issues. So a customer may find all they get for their time is a “cant replicate” note or a goodwill key replacement or two.
I don’t think explicitly counting on a new keyboard and battery by fabricating an issue is a strategy that should be counted on and may have the opposite effect in making legitimate repairs more difficult to get.
According to the MacRumors article which cites the Verge, only 2018 MacBook Pros/Airs and the new 2019 models will get the updated keyboard upon a replacement. Is there any source claiming otherwise? BTW, to add to the confusion, I think Apple themselves isn't even calling it "4th gen" officially, they are considering it a new iteration of the "3rd generation" butterfly.
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That's a good point, though TBH I'm not even sure if sending the machine in for a repair is an option in my country. Is this a US-thing? I called Apple a few months ago for an issue on my 2018 MBP (not keyboard-related, had an issue with the display) and the only option they pretty much gave me was to bring it into a authorized service provider close to me (the next Apple Store is 80km or so away), where the store clerk took a good look and (in my case) confirmed the issue and initiated the repair. AFAIK they also did the repair (and most other repairs) in-store, though that may not be the case for all service providers. Now while I can't say if this holds true in general, I had the impression that if the store employee confirms the issue, you're pretty much good to go.
Now I don't know for sure what he would have done if an issue (such as the keyboard issue) isn't easily reproducible, I suppose it depends a lot on how much goodwill he'd be willing to show and how convincingly you explained the issue. I have no doubt that Apple or a service provider may sometimes be rejecting people with legitimate issues, but conversely I've also heard a lot of stories about Apple being very lenient with this and putting the customer experience first, so I suppose it comes down to how lucky you are and if you speak to the right person.
Also don't forget that authorized service providers are paid by Apple for any repair they perform, so they have an interest in maximizing the amount of repairs they perform since it maximizes their profit. So it sounds plausible to me that many of them don't strictly demand proof with an issue they know to be widespread such as the butterfly keyboard, when one repair alone could potentially net them hundreds of € as income. And if you bring in your machine and they actually deny you the repair, then you can very likely take your laptop out with you on the same visit and nothing's lost. The absolute worst-case is that they (as you mentioned) take in the machine for a week and then deny you the service, but as I said, I think that's rather rare with something like a keyboard issue since I presume most stores/service providers check that upfront.
Point being: if you're fine with being a week without your machine, then it really doesn't hurt to try getting a repair, even on issues that are not easily reproducible. You have nothing to lose (other than maybe time with the machine) and everything to gain. And while I don't strictly encourage anyone to making up an issue just to bring Apple to replace it for them (as plenty of other people here on these forums are doing), I frankly also don't blame anyone for it, especially now that keyboards are replaced with the new iteration that is supposed to be more failure-prone. Apple is the one selling us faulty keyboards to begin with, so I have little sympathy with them if people who were promised a working keyboard when they bought a machine decide that they actually want one, and decide to find out if Apple replaces their keyboard with the new less failure-prone one. That Apple also has to afford a new battery, speakers and trackpad for those users (which certainly is a nice side-effect for them) is Apple's responsibility alone.
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Where have you heard this? Apple hasn’t given any indication at all that they would be moving to a different KB. If Apple is known for anything, it’s that they dig their heels in when making a design change because they always think they know best. I would not hold my breath for a redesigned KB.
This is all revisionist history. Jobs never told anyone they were “holding it wrong.” This is one of those Android fanboy made up things that became fact.
What was actually said was, when replying to an email where someone said if they hold the phone in a certain way it causes the signal to fluctuate, Jobs said “Don’t hold it that way.” To me that’s vastly different than Apple stating “You’re holding it wrong.”
Apple stores pretty much don't fix jack in the house anymore. Most goes out for repair. Not sure about the Authorized providers when it comes to keyboard issues for them since the top case has to be replaced. Nor am I sure how motivated they are to do a repair vs Apple. Guess that is an option to look at if Apple declines the repair.
The other question I wonder about is if the durability of the keys themselves has improved with the newest iteration of the keyboard. After 6 months of ownership, I am experiencing 2 keys with chipping paint "e" and "a" and wear on others. Apple has been denying these claims quoting that they are "cosmetic" which is just bull****. I have a couple of decade-plus old Dells with keyboards that still look better than the 6-month-old keyboard on my MBP. Cheaply made P.O.S's is all these butterfly keyboards are. Cheap junk to maximize profit per unit, nothing more.
Edit: Oh and the cheap type cover on my going on 2-year-old Surface Pro looks far better after nearly 2 years than my 2018 MPB does after 6 months as well. F-Apple.
We're not talking about normal failure probabilities here. The keyboards fail at a much higher rate than other components on average, and this replacement program can be seen an admission of that.