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That would be great of course, but the technology is still only in its infancy and if we ran out of petrol today people would follow the path of least resistance and turn to something true & tested which would be ethanol.

IMO they should drop the whole ethanol idea today, steer everyone over on green diesel cars that are much more energy efficient than gasoline cars, and then gradually move over from diesel via diesel hybrids to electric cars. If everyone went diesel today we'd get a few decades more out of the oil, leaving ample room for the development of alternatives.

Diesel is so much better than ethanol.
Ethanol is nasty crap. If the government approves the 15% volume content anyone iwth a gas powered boat or watercraft is in trouble.

Ethanol does to engines what this thread does to its readers.
It appears to fuel the engine or information but in the end it is full of sludge that slowly destroys the engine and before you know it your mind is a goo.
 
Diesel is so much better than ethanol.
Ethanol is nasty crap. If the government approves the 15% volume content anyone iwth a gas powered boat or watercraft is in trouble.

Ethanol does to engines what this thread does to its readers.
It appears to fuel the engine or information but in the end it is full of sludge that slowly destroys the engine and before you know it your mind is a goo
.

so what are you trying to say?

butanol anybody?
 
Electric cars have no future. The energy potential is much too low compared to liquid fuel.

Well what they're proposing is pretty interesting; unlike anything out there right now.

Picture a micro turbine that fires a burst of energy, charging a LiIon battery that charges extremely fast. Kind of like a hybrid now in that it does have an engine of sorts, but definitely not like current hybrids. And the battery technology will improve drastically.
 
...but we can save it...

I love how this thread has nothing to do with the commercial any more :D

About the commercial, we do know that this is the first in a series. We've also heard that the budget will range up to $2000.

What's coming next? ...and after that?

If we look at the Laptop Hunters page at Microsoft, I think we can guess.

  • Gamer - not fair, Apple doesn't play. Windows wins hands down.
  • Parent - another budget ad
  • Designer - multi-media, mini-HTPC system
  • Socialite - I'd guess style/light, but the page shows a higher end 17"
  • Jetsetter - portable emphasis

The "gamer" one could be hysterical - especially if they show a skater-dude playing the same game side-by-side on an Apple and a PC.

I wonder if they'll leave the "laptop" market and hit Apple in its most vulnerable spot that .... huge ... gaping ... hole .... in the desktop line between the mini and the maxi-tower.


Picture a micro turbine that fires a burst of energy, charging a LiIon battery that charges extremely fast. Kind of like a hybrid now in that it does have an engine of sorts, but definitely not like current hybrids. And the battery technology will improve drastically.

This is the idea behind the Volt. It's an all-electric, but there's a small engine connected to a generator to recharge the batteries on the road.

Maybe a turbine (I really don't know their efficiency) but don't rule out a diesel or gas engine. Since the engine runs a generator, every part of the engine (input manifold, exhaust headers, valve timing, spark timing, fuel mixture,...) can tuned for best efficiency at a single RPM. No need for a broad torque range across engine speeds - it would have two speeds, idle and full. And it would almost never run at idle.
 
I used Mac OSX since 10.0, and OS9 since it's release date. I was pretty happy with it, but when Apple wanted $300 for me to ship my macbook pro to Cupertino, it just became economically inviable for me to own a mac. I looked at windows and... blech... Unix was definitely a necessity, because of how it organises users and doesn't let any old program do what it wants with SU privs.

I went out and bought an Asus EeePC HDA and put Ubuntu on it, switching soon after to Debian, and finally I now am running Arch with openbox. I would NEVER switch back.

What I miss from mac osx:

Coda. Easily the best text editor I ever used, ever. oh god, nothing OSS even compares to it, especially on my 1024x600 screen.

Having other hardware just work. On linux, I had to make sure the printer I was buying had OS drivers. CUPS is still a bit flaky. On my macbook pro, I could just print, period.

...I thought for a long time and that's all I could come up with.

It's easy to say that Mac OSX is better than Windows, everyone knows that that's true. Whether or not it's worth the [rand(10)] times higher pricetag is irrelevant; it is better. But is it the best? Is it any better than linux?

I say not. GNU/Linux ftw.
 
But I will offer you this, free and clear: if I'm wrong and Apple releases an xMac within the next year and as a clear result, Apple's marketshare increases by the 50% that you claim that it will ...we'll call 'immediate' to be 6 months... I'll fly over to Sweden and take you & your girlfriend out for a nice dinner in Stockholm (or closer to home for you; your choice), all at my own expense.
:D

Thanks for the generous offer, but I didn't say their market share would skyrocket by 50%, I said that 50% of the potential customer base would buy a consumer-line Core i7 minitower. And by potential customer base I mean the existing one plus a lot of people who keep dreaming about Macs but never buy one, because the iMac isn't their idea of a desktop, the Mini is non-expandable and underpowered, and the Mac Pro would put them in debt for 16 years. The "Mac" (meaning Mac Pro minus Pro) would sell like hotcakes to existing Mac users too, just like people who already had one or more Macs bought Mac Minis in sixpacks. As for undermining Mac Pro sales, well... professionals and enthusiats who need the full power of a Mac Pro wouldn't be interested, and people who don't need a Mac Pro shouldn't have to buy one, and in most cases don't. They could make it really small for a desktop, something like Dell's Optiplex microtowers so that it's big enough to hold a couple of free PCI slots, two hard drives and dualhead video card, but still small enough to be an extra Mac you can put just about anywhere, like the Mac Mini, as a multimedia machine hooked up to your flatscreen TV or whatever.

Then again, the "Mac" would be eligible for home repairs according to the AppleCare agreement, and judging by their unbridled enthusiasm over the prospect of extra labor, I can see why they're holding back the "Mac". :D

BTW, as I mentioned in an earlier post Dell just launched the Nehalem Precision line, and I repeat - for once I gotta hand it to Apple; Dell has apparently mistaken the Nehalems for Picasso paintings.
 
I used Mac OSX since 10.0, and OS9 since it's release date. I was pretty happy with it, but when Apple wanted $300 for me to ship my macbook pro to Cupertino, it just became economically inviable for me to own a mac. I looked at windows and... blech... Unix was definitely a necessity, because of how it organises users and doesn't let any old program do what it wants with SU privs.

I went out and bought an Asus EeePC HDA and put Ubuntu on it, switching soon after to Debian, and finally I now am running Arch with openbox. I would NEVER switch back.

What I miss from mac osx:

Coda. Easily the best text editor I ever used, ever. oh god, nothing OSS even compares to it, especially on my 1024x600 screen.

Having other hardware just work. On linux, I had to make sure the printer I was buying had OS drivers. CUPS is still a bit flaky. On my macbook pro, I could just print, period.

...I thought for a long time and that's all I could come up with.

It's easy to say that Mac OSX is better than Windows, everyone knows that that's true. Whether or not it's worth the [rand(10)] times higher pricetag is irrelevant; it is better. But is it the best? Is it any better than linux?

I say not. GNU/Linux ftw.

I haven't had very good luck with linux. If it hasn't been one thing it was another.

I don't think I've given up completely on it though, just taking a break from all the frustration that it entails....
 
Another idea for a "gamer" ad....

Play off the old "98 pound weakling" ads.

A weakling weighing 98-pounds
Will get sand in his face when kicked to the ground
And soon in the gym with a determined chin,
The sweat from his pores as he works for his cause...
Makes me shake, makes me wanna
take Charles Atlas by the hand
In just seven days, I can make you a man


Rocky Horror​

Picture the unlucky kid playing networked FPS games on his top-of-the-line MBP.

Keeps getting fragged, nuked, blown up, pwned, drawn and quartered and the like because the MBP just doesn't have the frame rates to stay on top of things.

CP+B takes him on a shopping trip, and he comes back with the meanest, baddest Alienware-looking quad core dual SLI rig known (but still cheaper than the MBP).

In short order, he cleans up, destroys the bad guys, saves the princess, wins the prizes - and most important - wins the girl (or boy) that he's been dreaming about.

It just screams "Mac gamers are losers"...
 
:D

Thanks for the generous offer, but I didn't say their market share would skyrocket by 50%, I said that 50% of the potential customer base would buy a consumer-line Core i7 minitower. And by potential customer base I mean the existing one plus a lot of people who keep dreaming about Macs but never buy one, because the iMac isn't their idea of a desktop, the Mini is non-expandable and underpowered, and the Mac Pro would put them in debt for 16 years. The "Mac" (meaning Mac Pro minus Pro) would sell like hotcakes to existing Mac users too, just like people who already had one or more Macs bought Mac Minis in sixpacks. As for undermining Mac Pro sales, well... professionals and enthusiats who need the full power of a Mac Pro wouldn't be interested, and people who don't need a Mac Pro shouldn't have to buy one, and in most cases don't. They could make it really small for a desktop, something like Dell's Optiplex microtowers so that it's big enough to hold a couple of free PCI slots and dualhead video card, but still small enough to be an extra Mac you can put just about anywhere, like the Mac Mini, as a multimedia machine hooked up to your flatscreen TV or whatever.

Then again, the "Mac" would be eligible for home repairs according to the AppleCare agreement, and judging by their unbridled enthusiasm over the prospect of extra labor, I can see why they're holding back the "Mac". :D

BTW, as I mentioned in an earlier post Dell just launched the Nehalem Precision line, and I repeat - for once I gotta hand it to Apple; Dell has apparently mistaken the Nehalems for Picasso paintings.

i think dell was waiting for a particular supporting chip. somebody decided to transition their 8 inch factories
 
CP+B takes him on a shopping trip, and he comes back with the meanest, baddest Alienware-looking quad core dual SLI rig known (but still cheaper than the MBP).

Good luck with that.

If I spec a Area-51 m17x exactly like a MBP 17" (as close as possible anyway), with no SLI, I get a 2499$ price vs Apple's 2799$. SLI, the cheapest option, is 350$ extra :

[1] Area-51® m17x

Video/Graphics Card: 512MB Nvidia® GeForce™ Go 8700M GT
Display: 17" WideUXGA 1920 x 1200 LCD (1200p) with Clearview Technology
Keyboard Options: AlienFX® Illuminated Keyboard – Exclusive Design
AlienFX®: Alienware® AlienFX® System Lighting - Indigo
Processor: Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T9500 2.6GHz (6MB Cache 800MHz FSB)
Operating System (Office software not included): Windows Vista® Home Premium (64-bit Edition) with Service Pack 1
Memory: 4GB« Dual Channel DDR2 SO-DIMM at 667MHz – 2 x 2048MB
Notebook Tuners and Remotes: Internal Digital/Analog (ATSC) MiniCard TV Tuner
System Drive: Single Drive Configuration - 320GB 7,200RPM (16MB Cache) w/ Free Fall Protection
Optical Drives : 8x Dual Layer Burner (DVD±RW, CD-RW)
Wireless: Internal Intel® Wireless 4965 a/b/g/Draft-N Mini-Card
Sound Card : Internal High-Definition Audio with surround sound
Warranty: 1-Year AlienCare Onsite Service and 24/7 Toll-Free Phone Support

Note the slow FSB and DDR2 ram. I'm not even sure about that nVidia graphics card either.

Alienware is not cheaper than Apple. Oh and the kicker :

* Height: 2.1”
* Width: 16.1”
* Depth: 11.5”
* Weight: 10.5 lbs
 
Good luck with that.

If I spec a Area-51 m17x exactly like a MBP 17" (as close as possible anyway), with no SLI, I get a 2499$ price vs Apple's 2799$. SLI, the cheapest option, is 350$ extra...

I thought that Mac folks were supposed to be right-brained, creative types. Sheese. Think of the possibilities for the ad, not disect and destroy it without having a little fun.

This is exactly why I said "Alienware-looking" - and not "Alienware Area-51 m17x" in my post!


I have no idea what that "Seinfeld and Gates" ad has to do with "why you should buy a pc."
I don't see how this will help Gates...

Bill Gates left Microsoft quite some time ago, in case you didn't realize. Ballmer has been CEO for more than 9 years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ballmer).

There's all this "love Jobs, hate Gates" in the Apple fanclub which is so misplaced now that both of them are gone.
 
I have no idea what that "Seinfeld and Gates" ad has to do with "why you should buy a pc."
I don't see how this will help Gates...
I think you guys are all so used to the "Get a Mac" ads, that you think all ads must be about reasons to buy this or that computer. Back when those Seinfeld ads aired, everyone was asking "Why would this make me want to buy Vista?!" despite the ads not even mentioning Windows or PCs, let alone Vista.

It's kind of like switching on CNN and asking "Why would this make me laugh?" or listening to a country album and going "How is this heavy metal?"

It was a Microsoft brand ad. They wanted do disassociate the brand from cubicle boredom, in this case by being weird and random, talking about edible computers and the future being "delicious".
 
I thought that Mac folks were supposed to be right-brained, creative types. Sheese. Think of the possibilities for the ad, not disect and destroy it.

This is exactly why I said "Alienware-looking" - and not "Alienware Area-51 m17x" in my post!

Ok, so you want the ad to basically lie. Ok, LOOK 50$ CHEAPER than Apple and SLI and EXTREME!

2649$

[1] Area-51® m17x

Video/Graphics Card: Dual 512MB NVIDIA® GeForce® Go 8700M GT – SLI Enabled
Display: 17" WideXGA+ 1440 x 900 LCD (720p)
Keyboard Options: Non-Illuminated Keyboard – Exclusive Design
AlienFX®: Alienware® AlienFX® System Lighting - Blue
Processor: Intel® Core™ 2 Extreme X9000 2.8GHz (6MB Cache 800MHz FSB)
Operating System (Office software not included): Windows Vista® Home Premium (64-bit Edition) with Service Pack 1
Memory: 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SO-DIMM at 667MHz – 2 x 1024MB
Notebook Tuners and Remotes: Internal Digital/Analog (ATSC) MiniCard TV Tuner
System Drive: Single Drive Configuration - 160GB 7,200RPM (8MB Cache) w/ Free Fall Protection
Optical Drives : 8x Dual Layer Burner (DVD±RW, CD-RW)
Wireless: Internal Intel® Wireless 4965 a/b/g/Draft-N Mini-Card
Sound Card : Internal High-Definition Audio with surround sound
Warranty: 1-Year AlienCare Onsite Service and 24/7 Toll-Free Phone Support
 
Ok, so you want the ad to basically lie. Ok, LOOK 50$ CHEAPER than Apple and SLI and EXTREME!

Wow. You guys get your knickers in a twist just thinking about a hypothetical ad.

No wonder the brilliant "Lauren buys an HP computer" ad has 3275 replies - you're really emotionally involved in all of this.

... it's a computer
... it's a tool
... it's a television ad
... it's not the end of civilization as we know it
 
Wow. You guys get your knickers in a twist just thinking about a hypothetical ad.

No wonder the brilliant Lauren ad has 3273 replies - you're really emotionally involved in all of this.

Isn't you that wanted to dispel myths ? Like.. Oh... the Myth of the Apple tax ?

If they want the gaming ad to work, they'll basically just have to find a smallish desktop with good gaming potential and try to compare it to the Mac Pro. Like the Lauren ad, here's the premise :

"Here's 1200$. Find a tower computer that's upgradable and can play games really well".

Cue kid going into Apple Store, coming out empty handed and then heading to best buy in his Golf R32 to buy a Dell XPS tower.
 
Isn't you that wanted to dispel myths ? Like.. Oh... the Myth of the Apple tax ?

But, I don't consider "the Apple Tax" to be a myth. You find many, many examples of "system A" being a lot cheaper than "system B" - and the only significant difference between "A" and "B" is that "A" comes with Vista and "B" comes with OSX.

In particular, if you compare a Vista Core i7 quad-core with an Apple quad-core with the same or lesser capability - it's very, very clear that the tax for OSX multiplies the price, not just adds a percentage.

It's not an opinion, it's easy to prove.


If they want the gaming ad to work, they'll basically just have to find a smallish desktop with good gaming potential and try to compare it to the Mac Pro. Like the Lauren ad, here's the premise :

"Here's 1200$. Find a tower computer that's upgradable and can play games really well".

Cue kid going into Apple Store, coming out empty handed and then heading to best buy in his Golf R32 to buy a Dell XPS tower.

That would work, but the Lauren ad is in the category "Laptop Hunters" on the MS website. I assume that we'll have a few more ads about laptops, not desktops.

Also, the "Laptop Hunters" page at MS hints about gaming PCs.
 
That would work, but the Lauren ad is in the category "Laptop Hunters" on the MS website. I assume that we'll have a few more ads about laptops, not desktops.

Also, the "Laptop Hunters" page at MS hints about gaming PCs.

So alienware is out and looking through Dell's options, they don't have much as far as gaming laptops go. The XPS M1330 and XPS Studio 13 don't have much as far as Video cards go, so again, it's going to be a MBP comparison.

The only other thing they could play on if not gaming specs, is game availability.
 
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