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For about the same price ($949) you can get a (Sony) laptop that has way better specs. Larger screen, more memory in Ram and HD and even BluRay support.

You are essentially paying extra money for the "Apple store experience." From the Genius technical support to the Creative One-to-One lessons and the Concierge services to the Specialist personal shopping.

and for those who like links and sources cited.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9156557&type=product&id=1218038552017
 
as of right now, OS wise, MacOSX easily beats Vista
SL vs Win 7? who knows...

but the apple premium is ridiculous. people keep saying Apple is quality...
why then were:
- ibook keys cracking
- powerbook keys melting
- macbook palm rest cracking
- uni macbook battery cover loose
- bottom of white macbook cracking
you get the idea...
but the generalization of apple products being better quality...total bs.
if their stuff is so good...why do u even bother buying apple care?

and what "better hardware" are you getting with mac? the intel processor? the samsung ram? hitachi hard drive? the lg screen?

*note: i still love my macbook, but im sick of people defending apple because they believe its god and that the company can do no wrong...which is pretty much this entire board
 
I think that while ever MS has Vista then Apple has little to worry about with its switching campaign.

The perception of Vista is THAT bad.

The Ad could easily be spun into a positive for Apple. They have never claimed to be cheap.
 
Apple should do an advertisment of a girl named Lauren who gets frustrated with Vista and all its pop-ups, then throws her computer out the window. Then the apple logo appears for a brief few seconds. End of commercial.
 
I know a lot of PC owners, both as personal friends and work colleagues, who continually bang on about the price of Macs compared to a PC. I will happily acknowledge that PC's are cheaper, however upon doing so they refuse to acknowledge that a Mac is a superior, more robust, rock solid, reliable system compared to the PC. For some, in this climate especially, the cost of something is more important than the quality.

When it comes to Macs, I have an opinion which other Mac users have agreed with me on, some not so much, but here it is ... I'll do my best to explain it.

Mac users, existing ones especially, are in this market because they can afford to buy a Mac. If you go into the Apple Store with a genuine intention of buying a Mac, then you obviously have the resources and finances to fund your purchase. Look around any Apple Store and you can tell the people who are genuinely interested in a system because they can afford one, and those who are looking at the "pretty design" but baulking at the price tag.

If you go into the Apple Store with a mindset of "what can I get for x-amount of pounds/dollars" then you're going to leave disappointed, especially if you walk in with a certain spec of Dell/Toshiba/Sony laptop you seen in PC World down the road for £649.

A lot of PC owners simply don't want to listen when you try and explain what makes a Mac better, they often begin to guffaw the second you do. It's almost like they enjoy seeing you try to justify what makes it better, so now I don't bother. If they want to see what makes a Mac better, they should try one extensively. It's them who's missing out, and I get to go home to a 20" 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo iMac while they sit with XP or Vista and it's infamous hangs, crashes, freezes, and errors.
 
A lot of people tying themselves in knots about this, trying to justify this or that... but they forget one thing. Advertising and marketing relies on perception, not fact. And I'm afraid to say that Apple are extremely vulnerable on this point of price, especially when it comes to potential switchers or young adults looking at buying their first computer with their own money for the first time.

It doesn't matter whether you come to the dance with arguments about TCO or service agreements, or these endless and pointless car comparisons, this is not the type of buyer that these ads are aimed at. After all, what's wrong with a cheap laptop for writing essays, organising your pics and messing around on Facebook?

Value can be measured in so many different ways... and I've already seen a friend, a longtime Mac user of over 10 years and a journalist, replace her iBook recently with an HP solely on price terms alone. And a few years ago, I would have tried hard to dissuade her from that decision, but this time around I didn't say a word because I knew that her budget was tight and that she only needed a machine for work: namely, email, music and word processing.

In my view, Apple could do with a laptop model that fills the role of the Mini in the desktop range... but I suspect that they're going to release a Sony-priced netbook or tablet-like device instead. They're sitting on mountains of cash, they can take a little downturn until things pick up and people start buying for status again.

Ah, you've come too late (early?) for this party.

It has already been established why we Mac users buy Macs.

That is not going to change. Your journo friend is very wise to replace that piece of junk iBook: they were terrible.

That being said, marketing does not matter: branding... perhaps. I have never bought an Apple product because of what Steve says, but because it is what I am used to: small difference but it is very important.
 
Ok... PCs are cheaper but... you get to run Windows...

I have saying for thta: is not the place, is the company.


Cheaper because you have older standars and less things.

It is the same saying, "i buy a FIAT instead a BMW because they have both 4 wheels so are they're the same".
 
PC's are generally more expensive & thats a FACT!!!

Right so that woman got the HP for $699

she will also need...

Norton Anti Virus= $50.00
Windows Vista Ultimate= $200.00
MS Office 2007 Ultimate $350.00
Then software comparable to Apple's iLife
Sony Vegas= $220
Nero DVD suite= $100.00
CuBase= $299.00
Adobe Lightrom= $299.00
Couldn't find a website builder in the same league as iWeb

SUB TOTAL= $2,217.00 so its well over her budget

or she could get a 15'' MacBook Pro with a much superior graphics card with everything thrown in and spend like $79 for iWork.

People think PC's are cheaper, but they aint its because your getting less stuff with it. PLus you also need to take into consideration repairs and if it breaks via getting a virus lol.

Also advertising PC's being cheaper means nothing especially to me. Its just like advertising a Toyota Prius & putting on the ad its cheaper than a Ferrari. When the ferrari gives you much more thrill & better experience than driving around in a Hybrid electric thing. Same principle with macs & PC's you get what you pay for
 
I also see that Microsoft's resident prick, Steve Ballmer, is at his usual tricks claiming the Apple Logo represents $500 of a Mac's price.

Seriously, when he stops jumping around the stage like a pre-pubescent schoolchild, oozing bodily fluids all over his shirt while yelling "Wooo, give it up for me".

And while this line may or may not be historically correct, it comes from a scene in Pirates of Silicon Valley when Steve Jobs is speaking to Gates and Ballmer after Microsoft ship Windows PC's for the first time.

"We're better than you ... we have better stuff".
 
It's difficult responding to this situation because there are so many small things that may or may not attribute to the advantages of spending more for a Mac. In the case of this Microsoft advertisement, while they don't mention the specs of the computer, we know that it does meet the qualifications Lauren is looking for. Granted, due to lack of information, she may not know what exactly she's talking about, which makes this slightly more difficult.

But let's just throw in some information here, to assume we know a little bit more. Judging by Lauren's age, she could very well be a college kid who is studying the basics and needs a computer for fairly simple stuff: to type papers in Microsoft Word, check her Facebook profile, and listen to music on iTunes. This seems to fit the common criteria of the typical college girl.

Now, after studying the commercial, and identifying the same computer she purchases, it's revealed her computer is certainly meant to be cheap: the tech specs are horrible. The machine is slow, the 17-inch screen has a low resolution (which basically makes it a 15-inch in essence), and it comes with no additional software, aside from trial versions and annoying demo programs that she'll have to uninstall anyway. Now, in terms of hardware, there is going to be greater choice with a PC because manufactures make them in all shapes and sizes. This means that some PCs will be the cheap, $699 17-inch laptop that Lauren wants, while some will cost the same, if not more, than the 17-inch MacBook Pro that Apple has available. Depending on what Lauren wants to do with it, the cheap PC she has purchased may or may not give her the options she's looking for. But based on our assumption that she's using it for the basics, she's still going to have to spend some additional cash.
'
As the laptop she purchases doesn't come with Microsoft Office, she's going to spend at least $150 to type her papers. Also, seeing as PCs are prone to viruses and spyware, she's going to need protection software, which usually has to be paid annually (often upwards of $130 per year). And in the case there's ever a time Lauren needs to edit a video for a group project in one of her classes, it'll be practically impossible as few editing programs are going to run on a computer as slow as the one she's purchased (and she's looking at probably $40 for a program, if not more). This being said, we can already see how the cost of ownership is starting to add up with a PC.

The great thing about a Macintosh is you get more than what you wanted. You get everything you would ever need as a standard consumer.

This is a good point. For a $699 17-inch laptop, you're going to get mediocre hardware -- but Lauren didn't care (or know better), as her only requirements were "speed, a comfortable keyboard, and a 17-inch screen." With a Mac, sure you're going to spend some additional money, but it would still meet her needed specifications and more. That "more" is what sets Macs apart from the competition: top-of-the-line hardware components, incredibly well designed software that has few problems, and great support when issues do arise. And that’s putting it vaguely, the amazing stuff is what you can do out of the box.

Yup. Wasn't it Henry Ford who said that if he asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for faster horses?

Lauren got just what she THINKS she wanted.

I know several people who recently switched to MacBooks. These are average every-day PC users, not power users or Mac/PC experts. They are continually being impressed by one more feature they just discovered on their Macs that they never knew about, never thought to ask for, but can't live without now. I hear it all the time now -- "Wow - it can do that?!" Or, more importantly, "Wow, I can do that?!"

And that’s the key thing: Lauren will never know what she could have done if she had a Mac. So is the additional cost of a Mac worth it? Once again, it depends on what Lauren wants to do with it. For the simple tasks we're assuming she wants to complete (word processing, Internet access, and playing music), her $699 PC will accomplish what she wants to do, albeit some drawbacks.

Her computer will be slow, meaning that she'll have to wait (literally) several minutes just to have it startup. Opening programs, or even simply folders and files, will take time as the computer reads the information. Videos she watches on YouTube may skip, and songs she listens to in iTunes might take a moment to respond to her clicking the "play" button. And of course, the security of her computer is always at risk on a PC. The typical college girl isn't going to know what sites are considered "legitimate" and what isn't. So when she Google searches for "watch tv shows online", and comes across a site that promises her all episodes of Grey's Anatomy provided she installs their plugin, Lauren is going to do so without a second thought. Soon her computer starts running slow -- reeeeally slow -- or popups are occurring each time she turns it on, if it turns on at all. The virus protection software she purchased does nothing to fix this problem, and she takes it to a local computer store for help. They'll her $75 to reinstall Windows Vista, erasing the computer entirely. If she wants her personal files backed up so she doesn't lose them in the process (any of her papers, pictures she's taken, music she listens to), it's an additional $40. (And that's a cheap price; Best Buy, for example, charges $129 for reinstall and $99 for backup!)

To think that all of this happens for simply one reason: she bought a PC. This situation doesn't happen on a Mac. Period.

But alas,
Apple doesn't sell cheap computers, they sell premium computers.
Steve Jobs himself said it best just last October, "We don’t know how to make a $500 computer that’s not a piece of junk." Apple sells computers that work every time. And if, for some reason, something doesn't, they'll fix it. But in Lauren's case, she doesn't know any better. Unless some of her friends have Macs, or until the point she gets fed up with her PC, she'll just accept the problems that plague her laptop as "normal computer stuff".

The 17" MBP is definitely a better laptop, but the slight benefits the 17" MBP will make to most consumers is not enough to warrant... the price, especially if they're not all that into computers to begin with. Ask my girlfriend if she's happy with her computer, and she'll ask you what there is to be happy about.
That's the thing: typical PC users don't know what constitutes a better computer until they've seen something that catches their eye. When they realize that Macs don't deal with the same issues they've dealt with using PCs, that's when they consider the switch.

So while the Mac may certainly cost more initially, the total cost of ownership of the PC can turn out quite a bit more than originally thought. Lauren spent about $700 on a new laptop which came with no software for what she wanted to accomplish (according to our example). She'd have to spend an additional $315 on programs that she later found out she needed (Microsoft Word, virus protection -- paid annually, and a video editing application). But despite taking care of her computer, she's still a typical PC user, and experiences the same, typical frustrations PC users face: slowness, bugs, additional costs, and viruses. This leads her to spend more of her money: $75 for a reinstall of Vista, plus $40 to backup her files. We're at $1135 at total cost of ownership for a machine that originally cost $699. And once you start throwing in things she wish came with her computer (a built in webcam, Bluetooth connectivity, a screen with a higher resolution), the cost starts going up with every upgrade. She has to purchase an external USB camera ($50, not to mention it looks tacky snapped to the top of her laptop), a Bluetooth USB adapter ($50, not to mention taking up a USB port), and a new screen is completely out of the question, seeing as her computer won't even support it (but it'd be at least an additional $300 if it did, plus parts and labor for a technician to install). Say another virus is causing problems to her system (which, for a college student could happen at least once each semester) -- that's another $115 for a reinstall and a backup. Who knows how much longer the list could go on?

By the time Lauren's PC finally bites the dust (no pun intended), and she's ready to purchase a new one, she may have spent a grand total of $1660, if not more. She's spent almost $1000 more than what she paid for the laptop to begin with! Say she wants to sell the old machine: at this point, the value of her PC is worth approximately $150 and it's only a couple years old. Looking on eBay, two year old 17-inch MacBook Pros are going for eight times that value.


Epilogue

Tired of having to deal with the same things she's put up with as being "normal" with PCs for years, Lauren looks at a Mac. She finally realizes that computers can be made to work exceptionally well, without all the hassles, extra time and spending that went into her PC. She becomes so enthusiastic about her new Mac that something changes in her -- maybe it's the simplicity of having a computer that "just works" -- but for the first time, Lauren feels "cool" to use the computer she does. And now she knows why.
 
It's not 2004, people don't need virus protection on Windows any more.

Sure, it's not 2004, we're in 2009, malware has become incredibly advanced and stealth, and you say that you don't need virus protection on Windows any more? At LEAST you're gonna need some virtualization/sandboxing, but saying that you don't need virus protection is like saying that you don't have to wear condoms when going in a whorehouse.
 
and at almost twice, even three times the price in some instances, many people still opt for an apple product. I wonder what that says about the state of windows and other products that apple dominates
 
That's like giving people $10,000 to buy a car and then saying that since they got a Kia, it must mean that Audis and BMWs are overpriced :rolleyes:
These BMW, Porsche and Ferrari analogies people sometimes use to justify Apple's ludicrous pricetags are seriously flawed.

A Ferrari is handbuilt in Italy. A Porsche is handbuilt in Germany. A Mac is mass produced in a Chinese sweat shop where they probably make Wal-Mart Durabrand blowdryers inbetween the Macs. If a Porsche was mass produced at the Kia factory, would you consider the pricetag justified?

I love me a good premium brand, but when someone tries to peddle Chinese crap with pretty severe quality problems (compared to how Macs used to be once upon a time) as luxury items just to squeeze out higher margins than anyone else in the hi-tech business, it's a scam. Get back to me when Macbooks are handmade at a Swiss clock factory or something, then we can talk justified premium pricetags.
 
I couldn't be bothered reading 49 pages, so maybe this has been said already.

Why is MICROSOFT advertising other manufacturers laptops instead of their operating system, if it wasn't for the windows logo I wouldn't know what the Ad was about!
Why even bother with this ad, they dont manufacture laptops!?!

"I'm a PC and I got just what I wanted."
Yup, maybe a half decent HP laptop, but your still running that sh*t windows OS!
 
id love to see the follow up of this purchase 6 months down the road. Well Im off to best buy to buy another 17 in computer for 700 dollars because that gorgeous 17 in HP I bought stopped working.

Spend 400 dollars more, have a computer that runs until you WANTa new one not Need[Bone
[/B]
 
Right so that woman got the HP for $699

she will also need...

Norton Anti Virus= $50.00
Windows Vista Ultimate= $200.00
MS Office 2007 Ultimate $350.00
Then software comparable to Apple's iLife
Sony Vegas= $220
Nero DVD suite= $100.00
CuBase= $299.00
Adobe Lightrom= $299.00
Couldn't find a website builder in the same league as iWeb

SUB TOTAL= $2,217.00 so its well over her budget

or she could get a 15'' MacBook Pro with a much superior graphics card with everything thrown in and spend like $79 for iWork.

Why would she need all these apps? There are opensource, freeware or much cheaer (and not that featureless) shareware alternatives.

Don't forget one thing: MacOS is not translated into many foreign languages while Windows is. Did I mention Linux?

People think PC's are cheaper, but they aint its because your getting less stuff with it.

Oh, really? With Vista, you get much the same, as with iLife.

Anyway, here is a nice config for only 599 €:
http://www.hofer.at/at/html/offers/2827_11998.htm

Look at the software, you'll get:

Code:
• Windows Vista® Home Premium
mit neuer Media Center Benutzeroberfl äche inkl. Service Pack 1
(32 Bit Version vorinstalliert, 64 Bit Version im Lieferumfang enthalten)
• Corel® Media One™
• Corel® Draw Essentials 3
• Microsoft® Works® 9
• Microsoft® Offi ce Home and Student Trial Version
60 Tage Testversion, zur Aktivierung Internetverbindung erforderlich. Nach Ablauf der
60 Tage müssen Sie eine Lizenz erwerben, wenn Sie das Produkt weiter nutzen wollen.
• Nero Burning ROM Essentials – Nero Burning ROM 8, Nero Recode 3,
Nero Express 8, Nero Vision 5
• BullGuard Internet Security
Inkl. 90 Tage Update aus dem Internet (kostenlose Registrierung erforderlich). Nach Ablauf
der 90 Tage müssen Sie eine Lizenz erwerben, um weiterhin Updates zu erhalten.
• KOSTENLOS: MEDION Live ID und MEDIONmail E-Mail-Account einrichten
unter www.medionmail.com
System recovery powered by Symantec www.symantec.com

The only thing, you have to buy is a license for Antivirus. But then, there are many great free antiviruses out there, that you can use without any restrictions for you personal needs.

PLus you also need to take into consideration repairs and if it breaks via getting a virus lol.

No, that's simply not true. Why do you pay for Apple Care? Isn't the 1 year guarantee enough for your superior, ultrastabile and unbreakable Apple computer?

Also advertising PC's being cheaper means nothing especially to me. Its just like advertising a Toyota Prius & putting on the ad its cheaper than a Ferrari. When the ferrari gives you much more thrill & better experience than driving around in a Hybrid electric thing. Same principle with macs & PC's you get what you pay for

Please tell me, how many people buys Ferraris? Apple = Ferrari? Oh, really? Oh, i fought, Apple is a consumer orriented company.
 
Why would she need all these apps? There are opensource, freeware or much cheaer (and not that featureless) shareware alternatives.

Don't forget one thing: MacOS is not translated into many foreign languages while Windows is. Did I mention Linux?



Oh, really? With Vista, you get much the same, as with iLife.

Anyway, here is a nice config for only 599 €:
http://www.hofer.at/at/html/offers/2827_11998.htm

Look at the software, you'll get:

Code:
• Windows Vista® Home Premium
mit neuer Media Center Benutzeroberfl äche inkl. Service Pack 1
(32 Bit Version vorinstalliert, 64 Bit Version im Lieferumfang enthalten)
• Corel® Media One™
• Corel® Draw Essentials 3
• Microsoft® Works® 9
• Microsoft® Offi ce Home and Student Trial Version
60 Tage Testversion, zur Aktivierung Internetverbindung erforderlich. Nach Ablauf der
60 Tage müssen Sie eine Lizenz erwerben, wenn Sie das Produkt weiter nutzen wollen.
• Nero Burning ROM Essentials – Nero Burning ROM 8, Nero Recode 3,
Nero Express 8, Nero Vision 5
• BullGuard Internet Security
Inkl. 90 Tage Update aus dem Internet (kostenlose Registrierung erforderlich). Nach Ablauf
der 90 Tage müssen Sie eine Lizenz erwerben, um weiterhin Updates zu erhalten.
• KOSTENLOS: MEDION Live ID und MEDIONmail E-Mail-Account einrichten
unter www.medionmail.com
System recovery powered by Symantec www.symantec.com

The only thing, you have to buy is a license for Antivirus. But then, there are many great free antiviruses out there, that you can use without any restrictions for you personal needs.



No, that's simply not true. Why do you pay for Apple Care? Isn't the 1 year guarantee enough for your superior, ultrastabile and unbreakable Apple computer?



Please tell me, how many people buys Ferraris? Apple = Ferrari? Oh, really? Oh, i fought, Apple is a consumer orriented company.

why the heck are you on a macforums website if you hate macs get the heck off, this is why i joined up so their should be nutty PC users
 
Good, and how are they supposed to be on par with iLife? Movie Maker? DVD Maker? Photo Gallery? They're all less functional copies of iLife. Oh, and there's no GarageBand.

That's right. Have to agree with this. But really, how many people are using GarageBand anyway?
 
i think its hilarious. another example of PC sitting in their ignorance. they have 91% of the market share. WTF do they care.

the add that pisses me off is that 4 year girl that says that she can email her pics from her digital camera to her grandparents or something. they make it seem so perfect. but they forget to mention what this 4 year old does when the OS doesnt recognize the camera. it doesnt show her having to spend hours online trying tho find the right drivers for that camera. its just plain stupid.

i've said it before. PC's should really only be used by ppl who know what they are doing. mac's just work. you can be a complete idiot and use a mac. but unfortunately those idiots go out and buy PC's. then dont put on virus protection and wonder why their brand new computer crashes every 9 minutes. then they probably end up having to spend $3000-$4000 in maintenance for the thing over the years. woah sorry for the rant but i just got to typing.
 
As much "windows is better/mac osx is better" stuff going on, I can't help telling that girl in the ad not to slate it on it's price until you have tried it.

Plus she was also basing this whole shop around hardware, which ms don't make... Kinda lame :/

-Sam
 
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