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While I believe value is in the eye of the beholder (or wallet of the consumer, perhaps), this quote always comes to mind when people talk about how cheap you can get a PC for (it also applies to things that may be overpriced):

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper. People who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.

"It is unwise to pay too much, but it is even worse to pay too little. If you pay too much, you lose some money, that is all. If you pay too little, however, you will sometimes lose everything, as the thing you bought cannot do the intended job.

"The law of economy forbids to obtain something of high value for little money. If you accept the lowest bid, you must add something for the risk taken by you. And if you do so, you have enough money to pay for something of higher value." --John Ruskin (1819-1900)
 
Hey,
What can you say.... Everybody knows you get what you pay for! I always explain it this way. Remember Beta and VHS, Beta had a great picture no tracking errors was smaller and all around had better quality. It failed because it was more expensive. People want CHEAP and ended up being stuck with crappy VHS. Kinda like Windoze.....

I don't believe it was the market wanting a cheaper, poorer product. Rentals for both were the same price. More that the porn industry and B-grade movie studios adopted VHS because it was cheaper to produce so in the first days the VHS section of the local video rental store always had more titles available than the Beta section. So people were forced to buy VHS machines so they could watch The Blob and Debbie Does Dallas.

I think the same applied to buying Windows PCs in the early days. More Blobs and Debbies available for Windows than for Macs.
 
mosx, You are missing the point about iLife and macs in general. The USER EXPERIENCE>

The USER EXPERIENCE for most people goes beyond technical specs and pure functionality.

Apple's programs including iLife provide a much better user experience than what is available on Windows. Apple's programs are simply easy to use (low learning curve), provide a consistent experience across different programs, and are fun to use.

Notice how for each of the iLife programs you had a program lined up that fulfilled that functionality. Great, but each program was from a different vendor, and each vendor has their own style of how they design their software. That means 5 programs = 5 learning curves. Apple provides one consistent style, once you grasp how to use one of the programs really well you can pretty much figure out the others in no time at all.

The problem with computer geeks is that they will be happy with a dull gray box with dozens of wires running an eclectic mix of software as long as it performs the FUNCTIONS they are looking for. Therefore, they think Apple is a rip off because it performs the same functions for more money.

But regular people do not think this way. Most people want a good experience which means they want to be able to do what they need to get done, they want to do it quickly, and they want to have fun doing it.

They don't want to spend hours researching software solutions, procuring and installing them, learning how to use them, etc. They want everything to work out of the box and that is what Apple does.

When you buy an Apple computer, assuming you got iWork pre-installed, you have every program you will ever need to fulfill every common home user task right out of the box. Just open up the computer, plug it in, and you're ready. There is a good chance you will never have to buy or download another piece of software again.

Compare that with a PC, with many downloads and/or trips to the software shop, learning curves for different programs, and hidden costs.

First you have your annual subscription to virus and spyware protection which can run $50-$60, then you have MS Office that runs at least $129 (compared to iWork at I think $41 if you get it at time of purchase for the academic discount). Throw in a decent sound editing program (to replace GarageBand). Also consider the resale value (macs while they lose value too, hold up pretty well. 4 year old macs are still going for at min $500. A 4 year old PC is probably worth maybe $150-$200 tops if you can even find a buyer).

Pretty soon you are realizing that you're not really saving all that much. And what you do save in money you lose in frustration, inconvenience, etc.

For most users (90%) who do not know how to fix their own PC, a single visit to the Geek Squad due to a virus infection that also requires a data back up pretty much wipes out any remaining savings from going with a PC. Another visit within the next year or two and they would've been saving some serious money going with a mac.

Sure you might get a few extra gigs of space or a few extra megahertz on a PC, but in the end, does it really matter? Probably not. Home user PCs do not require much.

If I snuck in at night to people's houses who only use computers to surf the net, check e-mail, maybe watch some downloaded movies or type some documents and replaced their sweet Quad Core home rigs with 1.6Ghz Core Duos with 2GB of RAM they probably wouldn't even notice the difference.

BTW, free Antivirus/Spyware programs suck, I say that as a technician who has 3 years of experience fixing spyware/virus infections sometimes from computers that had up to date "free" software installed. It is just not safe.
 
I don't believe it was the market wanting a cheaper, poorer product. Rentals for both were the same price. More that the porn industry and B-grade movie studios adopted VHS because it was cheaper to produce so in the first days the VHS section of the local video rental store always had more titles available than the Beta section. So people were forced to buy VHS machines so they could watch The Blob and Debbie Does Dallas.

I think the same applied to buying Windows PCs in the early days. More Blobs and Debbies available for Windows than for Macs.

You are right about VHS.

But in the early days of computers Apple was king. The switch to MS happened mainly due to Gates’ infamous deal with IBM that spawned the IBM-compatible computers and brought Windows to the forefront.
 
I don't believe it was the market wanting a cheaper, poorer product. Rentals for both were the same price. More that the porn industry and B-grade movie studios adopted VHS because it was cheaper to produce so in the first days the VHS section of the local video rental store always had more titles available than the Beta section. So people were forced to buy VHS machines so they could watch The Blob and Debbie Does Dallas.

I think the same applied to buying Windows PCs in the early days. More Blobs and Debbies available for Windows than for Macs.

VHS won because Sony would not allow pornographic content to be distributed on BetaMax.
 
You are right about VHS.

But in the early days of computers Apple was king. The switch to MS happened mainly due to Gates’ infamous deal with IBM that spawned the IBM-compatible computers and brought Windows to the forefront.

Too true. It took them about another decade though for it become their #1 product. I recall reading recently that Microsoft's largest market and user-base for their software up to about 1991 or so was the Apple II.
 
This ad was made for the average customer who has no idea of what is inside the machine or what it means to run a stable quality OS. The problem is that they will have success with this ad because people just see the pricing details and that's already one huge argument for them.

PS: If Apple would be a bit cheaper I would be more than happy....no question about that.
 
Maybe it's just my inner fashionista talking but I think the first EPIC FAIL with this ad is the jean jacket with the jean skirt..... :p:rolleyes:




Go back to Bill Gate's basement Lauren. We don't want you. :cool::D
 
VHS won because Sony would not allow pornographic content to be distributed on BetaMax.

Certainly would explain why the porn industry went with VHS. Now that was a bad marketing decision by Sony! I always thought it was the exorbitant licensing fees Sony wanted to charge.
 
A lot of people tying themselves in knots about this, trying to justify this or that... but they forget one thing. Advertising and marketing relies on perception, not fact. And I'm afraid to say that Apple are extremely vulnerable on this point of price, especially when it comes to potential switchers or young adults looking at buying their first computer with their own money for the first time.

It doesn't matter whether you come to the dance with arguments about TCO or service agreements, or these endless and pointless car comparisons, this is not the type of buyer that these ads are aimed at. After all, what's wrong with a cheap laptop for writing essays, organising your pics and messing around on Facebook?

Value can be measured in so many different ways... and I've already seen a friend, a longtime Mac user of over 10 years and a journalist, replace her iBook recently with an HP solely on price terms alone. And a few years ago, I would have tried hard to dissuade her from that decision, but this time around I didn't say a word because I knew that her budget was tight and that she only needed a machine for work: namely, email, music and word processing.

In my view, Apple could do with a laptop model that fills the role of the Mini in the desktop range... but I suspect that they're going to release a Sony-priced netbook or tablet-like device instead. They're sitting on mountains of cash, they can take a little downturn until things pick up and people start buying for status again.
 
My Say: Price

Here's my view point on the price of apple products, what I have done is taken apple products then gone to the dell site and used the navigation bar to narrow my search until I have a laptop that matches the form factor, I then customize it so it has similar spec:

13" Laptops:
Dell XPS M1330 (£749):
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T6400 (2.0GHz,2MB,800MHz FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium SP1- English
13.3" UltraSharp™ WXGA (1280x800) White-LED Display
2048MB 667MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM [2x1024]
120GB Free Fall Sensor (7200RPM) Hard Drive
128MB nVidia® GeForce® 8400M
Fixed 8x DVD+/-RW Slim Slot Load Drive, including SW
Primary 9-cell Lithium-Ion Battery (85 WHr)

Whitebook (£719):
2.0 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
120GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics


Thin Laptops:

Dell Adamo (£2249):
1.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo Processor with Centrino technology
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium 64 bit
4GB 800MHz DDR3 dual-channel memory3
128GB4 solid state drive

Macbook Air (£1614):
1.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
128GB Solid State Drive
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics

I admit openly that if your out to buy a 15" laptop, go and buy a PC, compared to mac pricing they are cheaper


17" Laptops

Dell XPS M1730 (£1969):
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T9500 (2.60 GHz, 800 MHz FSB, 6 MB L2 cache)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium SP1- English
17.0" UltraSharp™ WUXGA (1920x1200) TFT with TrueLife
4096MB 667MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM [2x2048]
320GB Free Fall Sensor (7200RPM) Hard Drive
1GB nVidia SLI Dual GeForce 9800GT graphics card

Macbook Pro (£1949):
2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
320GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
MacBook Pro comes with a high-resolution 1920x1200
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT with 512MB

Baby Desktops

Dell Studio Hybrid (£479):
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T6400 (2.0 GHz, 800 MHz FSB, 2MB cache)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium with Service Pack 1, 32-bit - English
2048MB 800MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM [2x1024]
250GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive
Integrated Intel® Graphic Media Accelerator 3100
DVD +/- RW Drive (read/write CD & DVD)

Mac Mini (£499):
2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x1GB
120GB Serial ATA Drive
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics


AIO (This makes me laugh about the hardware price up debate)

Dell XPS One (£1799):
Intel Core 2 Quad-Core Processor Q8200 (2.33GHz,1333MHz, 4MB cache)
Integrated 24" Display 1920x1200 WUXGA
2048MB Dual Channel DDR2 800MHz [2x1024] Memory
512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
500GB Serial ATA/100 Hard Drive
Internal 802.11 a/b/g/n wireless network card included
1 Year Premium Warranty Support
Slot Load Blu Ray Rom and 16x DVD+/-RW
Analog/Digital TV Tuner and Remote Control

iMac (£1199):
2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
640GB Serial ATA Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 256MB memory
8x double-layer SuperDrive


If you are looking for a professional desktop, it is entirely down to your needs. For anything related to business, I would go with a PC, they are cheaper. If you are into video editing/pictures/music I think there really isn't any other choice but the Mac Pro, it will be more cash but the benefits will be clear
 
If you are looking for a professional desktop, it is entirely down to your needs. For anything related to business, I would go with a PC, they are cheaper. If you are into video editing/pictures/music I think there really isn't any other choice but the Mac Pro, it will be more cash but the benefits will be clear

Agree, but video editing/pictures/music can be done on a PC too.

I'm just fine with image editing, especially illustrations/digital painting on a PC, since I get more raw power for my bucks. I don't have any problems with Windows.
 
Agree, but video editing/pictures/music can be done on a PC too.

I'm just fine with image editing, especially illustrations/digital painting on a PC, since I get more raw power for my bucks. I don't have any problems with Windows.

Fair point, if your photo editing, and you use photoshop, there is really no difference apart from you might need a slightly quicker processor and more ram as Vista eats a lot.
Video editing though should definitely be done on a mac, final cut and shake are brilliant products, King Kong was made on these two products which are easily accessible to you or me, aswell as high flying movie makers
 
Don't buy a Mac. Stay w/ your PC. There's no point of convincing you if you already made your decision!

Before you read further, I run Linux on most of my machines. I like Windows for gaming only.

Two things:

1. Learn how to type.

2. There are a couple of things stopping me from buying an Apple product, other than an iPhone. The first is the price. If I can buy a computer for half the price with the same specs, I am going to buy it. Second, it is a closed system. I can go to almost any store and buy upgrades for my PC. I can not build a system on my own and install OS X, and upgrades cost way too much. For example, Apple wanted nearly $200 to upgrade a Mac from 1gb of RAM to 4gb of RAM. I can do the same upgrade on a PC for $59!

I do, however, recommend Macs to people who are computer stupid. Yes there are people out there still like that. Because it is closed source, these individuals have less to worry about.

With all that being said, if someone can give me a LOGICAL reason why I should switch, then I may listen. Be advised, the typical "fanboy" arguments do not work.
 
Microsoft is afraid of only one thing: What will they do if Apple one day decides to license their OS to other hardware manufacturers? Who would install Vista then?
 
It's basically a lose-lose situation in the computer market. Apple makes great quality products, but is too pricey. And on the other hand, almost all other PC manufacturers have got prices right, but not the quality. In other words, you do really get what you pay for.

Microsoft is afraid of only one thing: What will they do if Apple one day decides to license their OS to other hardware manufacturers? Who would install Vista then?

Well, if it indeed does happen, by then Vista won't be the lastest version of Windows. So no-one would install Vista. Windows 7 is looking very good and it may be Microsoft's saviour.
 
Before you read further, I run Linux on most of my machines. I like Windows for gaming only.

Two things:

1. Learn how to type.

2. There are a couple of things stopping me from buying an Apple product, other than an iPhone. The first is the price. If I can buy a computer for half the price with the same specs, I am going to buy it. Second, it is a closed system. I can go to almost any store and buy upgrades for my PC. I can not build a system on my own and install OS X, and upgrades cost way too much. For example, Apple wanted nearly $200 to upgrade a Mac from 1gb of RAM to 4gb of RAM. I can do the same upgrade on a PC for $59!

I do, however, recommend Macs to people who are computer stupid. Yes there are people out there still like that. Because it is closed source, these individuals have less to worry about.

With all that being said, if someone can give me a LOGICAL reason why I should switch, then I may listen. Be advised, the typical "fanboy" arguments do not work.

Unix and linux are almost the same thing. Mac OS X is unix.
 
I just wanted to drop in my two cents. I don't have the time for anything else...

iMovie and iDVD are irrelevant. Why? Because digital video cameras come with their own video editing software. And not just cheap run of the mill junk either. I remember years ago I bought a $50 TV tuner that came with full version of their http://www.ulead.com/runme.htm software...

Oh dear, I played with some Ulead software once... once. Perhaps if Microsoft paid me $1,000, I might try it again.

Now let's talk about longevity. Some people say Macs last longer than PCs. How is that even remotely true? A MacBook with a Core Duo 2GHz and 2GB of RAM and Intel GMA 950 from 3 years ago is no different than a PC with the same specs from that time. How is that MacBook going to last longer?

I had that MacBook with the GMA 950 for almost two years. I sold it for $800 and that covered a large portion of the cost of my Unibody MacBook Pro. Resale value on a 2 year old computer, higher than the value of a new 17" HP laptop. That should tell you something right there.

HP was a company with a mindset not that much different than Apple's. They made the finest test and measurement equipment. Woz used to work for them. Now they make $699 laptops. How much do you think that thing will be worth in 2 years?
 
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