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Opinion schmoponion, this is my experience.

In all my years I have never heard of such a thing, however that is not to state that these experiences do not happen, they are simply the exception and not the rule.

May I ask, out of curiosity, if

Every single aspect of [your] Mac experience has been awful

why have you been an active member of MacRumors since 2005?
Anuba
macrumors 6502a



Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: .se
 
This is my first message in this forum. I've been a Mac user since my first in 2000, a iMac G3 350 MHz with Mac OS 9. It was also my first computer. Currently I'm using a Power Mac G4 Digital Audio. I love PPC Macs, and always will.

Earlier this week I bought my first PC, a Compaq CQ2009F desktop preloaded with Windows XP. There were a few reasons why I chose that PC instead of a Mac Mini. The honest truth is my primary reason was a emotional one. Since Apple chose to move from PPC to Intel, I've started feeling like Apple cares less about us and more about it's market share and profits. Also I get the feeling that Apple cares more about the iPod, iPhone, and getting PC users to switch to the Mac. I feel like Apple doesn't care much for Mac users who have been with the Mac for years, and are very passionate about it.

Apple manufactures peripherals, and designs software to work only with the recent versions of Mac OS 10. Often requiring 10.4 Tiger, and sometimes requiring 10.5 Leopard. For the PC user though they often let them get by with Windows XP. That doesn't sound like customer Appreciation to me. It sounds more like disregarding current Mac users. Would it really hurt Apple to sell peripherals, and software that would work with 10.3 Panther? What about when 10.6 Snow Leopard is released, how many 10.4 Tiger users will be left out in the cold?

Last I would like to say that since Apple decided to move from PPC architecture to commodity hardware like Intel there are less reasons for them to charge the prices they do. I'm sure that HP made some profit from the Compaq they sold me. If HP can sell me a Compaq desktop for under $400, I think Apple could do the same with a Mac Mini. True the Compaq I bought is marketed as a "net top", and with a 1.6 Atom single core processor it is a little slower then the Mac Mini. At the same time I feel like the Mac Mini should also be classified as a "net top", just a little faster, and a lot more expensive. Would it hurt Apple to make a affordable computer for the rest of us?

Being a Mac user doesn't mean we have to agree with Apple, or that we should never question the choices they make. It's healthy for us to "Think Different", even when it means that we think different from Apple. :)
 
What is sad are the number of Redmond employees (and children) posting here that Macs are no better than PCs, or that Macs are overpriced.

There are also a lot of personal attacks here, saying Mac users are stupid. That is when people get defensive. I went through this crap 20 years ago when I was an Amiga user. You're going along fine until the Mac and PC users start telling you why Amiga computers suck.

Actually, look again. There's a fair few members on the forums who have been here for years, true Apple loyalists, and are beginning to wonder whether a Mac really is worth the premium at this moment in time. If you asked me a year ago, I would've said without a shadow of a doubt my next purchase would be a Mac. Now, I'm not so sure.

Most of the personal insults and moaning seems to be coming from people new to the forums with little history of usage of Apple products. And some of these insults are aimed at people (who know what they're talking about and are not blindly buying Apple for the cool factor) who are willing to stick their neck out and say that Apple has made some dumb decisions.
 
Apple's volume of mac sales continues to grow, year over year. Their margins are consistent. They are profitable. They have no desire to cannibalize themselves for two or three more instant percentage points, at any particular quarter, to proclaim some sort of victory.

In four years Apple will be around 16-20% of the entire market for desktop/portable systems.

They'll continue to be highly profitable and steady on their margins.

Microsoft will continue to move from 3rd party OEM to 3rd party OEM to pander their wares while those third parties continue to fail and some even going bankrupt.

Agreed. People tend to sit around this forum and talk about how Macs are overpriced and how they need to make a cheaper this or an introductory that. The truth is that we just want them to make different models. Every quarter, Apple gains market share while other manufacturers lose it. Apple's stock is still WAY above the value of any of their competitors:

Apple - $106.85
Dell - $9.99
HP - $33.33
Sony - $22.27

We may wish that Apple had more offerings but the bottom line is they are clearly doing something right since, despite this recession, they are still very profitable
 
Lets look back on Commodore. They entered the home computer market at almost exactly the same time as Apple. They had a mandate to make computers cheap and sell them in mass quantities. They started a price war with Atari and Texas Instruments. In the process, Commodore rolled over many a company and retailer.

When the PC market started changing in the middle of the 1980's, Commodore had few friends. When a new computer called the Amiga was released, nobody wanted to sell them. They were technically faster and could do more out-of-the-box, but nobody ever heard of them.

Apple stayed above the fray and survived, and we sadly know what happened to Commodore.

The point is, if Apple started to make computers to undercut the $699 HP, it would be their undoing. It's that mindset that pushed them to the brink of bankruptcy in the late 1990's.
So you're saying that HP and Dell are on the verge of bankruptcy then? If selling inexpensive computers is automatically a company's undoing, I mean.

Apple doesn't have to go into a bargain basement type war, all people are asking for is that they reconsider their obsession with having 2 or 3 times the profit margin of everyone else in the business for no valid reason, and live off the obviously sufficient margins that keep Dell's and HP's executives well fed, and perhaps release one or two machines in the medium segment where you find stuff like high-end Dell Dimension and midrange Dell XPS, with consumer-grade desktop processors rather than the much more expensive server-class Xeons.

OK? Not bargain basement, just go from robbery to something a little more moderate, and fill the gaping holes in the product line.
 
Couldn't agree more but be careful. You'll be accused of being a Redmond employee, a child or a troll. I've spent long enough on these forums to recognise when it's starting to become time to throw the completely uncritical devotees of this hardware platform, the shiny dongle to run OSX, under the bus.

If you are so impassioned to write about the unfair pricing structure, then go tell Apple. Write on a Windows site where you'll further convince them that they've made the right choice.

Where many have gone wrong here is the belittling and labeling of people as "stupid" for spending their own money for something they want. I said before, if a $699 HP laptop makes you happy, then buy it.

As you see the Apple hardware as being just a "shiny dongle", then you obviously do not see the value in it and should probably look at other solutions.

Apple makes the "whole widget". At one time that was a liability. Now it is an asset that makes those in Redmond react. :)
 
Haha I actually feel like buying a Windows machine now based on these comments...unbelievable. I love my Mac, I really do, I love OS X (it is my OS of CHOICE) I cannot fairly say it is the 'best' - best by what defining category. Yes its more stable out the box and what not but if it was that bad why would Apple offer Boot camp and why would I install Vista on my Mac? Because I need to because it has advantages over OSX. Want to use Sopcast? Windows, TVants? Windows, ORB? Windows.

I choose to use OSX as my primary OS as that is my preferred OS. I live with 5 students 4 of which use Windows and hate using the Macs at University because their OS of choice is Windows and they are comfortable with the way it works, the shortcuts and THEY find it intuitive, no 2 people are alike. I can guarentee we all use OS X in very different ways and therefore I ca guarentee we all have different opinions of what is intuitive.

I find it funny how one is the best and one is the worst and you offer no substantial evidence to back up your claim. And you were summarizing 'fairly'?

Lol I don't even know why Im in this thread any more, grow up people they are computers, people have choices, MS mada a good ad for their target audience. Let people use whatever computer and OS they want and get on with it. And for future reference please make your posts at least somewhat true and use sources to backup your claim. Ive never defended MS like this before but I swear to god you people are really getting on my tits.

So lets summarise this fairly ... both platforms have disadvantages:

Macs: By FAR the best OS and ready to go out of the box. Better quality kit and no grief - it really just does work out of the box. ...BUT .. they ARE way O
overpriced by poor $ Exchange Rates and about 25% too pricey now even for hardened users like me.

PCs: MUCH cheaper and a bigger choice of machines than the Macs. Thats it. BUT the worst OS by far. A pain to use and just doesnt work out of the box. Vista is impenetrable to use for both computer nerds and newbies alike.

Verdict: If you value ease of use and quality over cost - go Mac.

But if you value cash in your pocket and dont care about sheer hassle and pointlessly complicated operating systems - go PC.

Sorted! Finished. Done. Good.
 
why have you been an active member of MacRumors since 2005?
I bought a Mac Mini G4 in 2005, then an iPod Nano, then an Intel Mac Mini. I also have an iPhone. Never used the Minis for work (obviously). The iMac from late '07 was my first (and last) "work Mac".

Not that I understand your question, as it's perfectly alright to own 0 (zero) Apple products and hang around MacRumors, should that have been the case.
 
Again, does anyone know any information about the companies selling systems with Mac OS? I believe Pystar was one such company (excuse me if I got the company name incorrect). Are these machines legal to purchase in the U.S. and what are the specs? Thanks!
 
I bought a Mac Mini G4 in 2005, then an iPod Nano, then an Intel Mac Mini. I also have an iPhone. Never used the Minis for work (obviously). The iMac from late '07 was my first (and last) "work Mac".

So, if you have other Mac systems, why did you state:

Every single aspect of my Mac experience has been awful
?

Not that I understand your question, as it's perfectly alright to own 0 (zero) Apple products and hang around MacRumors, should that have been the case.

Sure it is "alright", it is a free world. I thought it was odd that you have been a regular on a fan based site for a product that you have been consistently attempting to convince others is inferior to its competition. It simply runs contrary to your commentary. If an individual hates a product so much based on their comments and behavior, it would seem odd that they would frequent a site for years that is centered around the very thing they dislike.
 
Again, does anyone know any information about the companies selling systems with Mac OS? I believe Pystar was one such company (excuse me if I got the company name incorrect). Are these machines legal to purchase in the U.S. and what are the specs? Thanks!

This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, really, so this isn't the place for this. Their legality is being actively determined. It is not illegal to make one yourself, but selling and purchasing one pre-made is questionable.
 
While on Windows, you MUST pay to get a decent Defragmenting tool. Windows' default defragmenter is...awful.

...but it's nothing like Windows where every month the user must take time to defragment the hard disk.

Windows has an effective defragmenter that is set to run automatically once a week to clean up the disk. No action required from the user.

Where do you people find this misinformation, anyway?
 
Apple should make an add with "you get what you pay for"

I think it would be very effective.
 
So you're saying that HP and Dell are on the verge of bankruptcy then? If selling inexpensive computers is automatically a company's undoing, I mean.

I didn't say that. It is however a path that leads down a endless spiral that may or may not lead there.

If the $699 HP laptop is what I think it is, it's a "loss-leader" that is actually made in limited quantities. Its reason for being is to contrast it with a higher priced machine with greater margins. You walk into the store and compare features, "hey, this other HP has the same size screen, but higher resolution". You make a judgement as to whether the higher cost is worth it. Generally people aspire for better, and will gravitate to the better configured systems.

Lets look at the current snapshot.

AAPL 95.16B Market Cap
HPQ 79.88B Market Cap
DELL 19.35B Market Cap

I seem to remember a time when Michael Dell told Apple to liquidate the company and give the money back to the shareholders.

It's with those cash assets that Apple will weather this downturn. HP and Dell I think are still profitable, but not in as strong a position.
 
If HP can sell me a Compaq desktop for under $400, I think Apple could do the same with a Mac Mini. True the Compaq I bought is marketed as a "net top", and with a 1.6 Atom single core processor it is a little slower then the Mac Mini.

Ghostwolf, I think your post was well written and you make some interesting points about Apple's focus on other products and how older OSX versions are orphaned.

But. I do need to object to your statement that a 1.6 Atom is just a little slower than a Mini. It really is in a completely different ballpark. And your net top's maximum 1GB of mem and the GMA graphics widen the gap further still. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a cute box and great for many tasks, but it's not a full featured desktop like the Mini.
 
Windows has an effective defragmenter that is set to run automatically once a week to clean up the disk. No action required from the user.

Where do you people find this misinformation, anyway?

Do you really think it gets the work done better than other third party Defragmenters?

Make a small test, try defragmenting a fragmented drive with Windows Defragmenter, then try defragmenting a fragmented drive with, let's say, UltimateDefrag.

You'll notice a big performance boost (or better 'regain') when using Ultimate Defrag.
 
Windows has an effective defragmenter that is set to run automatically once a week to clean up the disk. No action required from the user.

Where do you people find this misinformation, anyway?

Sorry, I only have real training with older Windows operating systems, and I know that my defragmenter on Vista must be run manually, at least the way I have it set up. I hate having anything slow my computer down for spring cleaning when I only use it like once every week or so.
 
If you are so impassioned to write about the unfair pricing structure, then go tell Apple. Write on a Windows site where you'll further convince them that they've made the right choice.

Where many have gone wrong here is the belittling and labeling of people as "stupid" for spending their own money for something they want. I said before, if a $699 HP laptop makes you happy, then buy it.

As you see the Apple hardware as being just a "shiny dongle", then you obviously do not see the value in it and should probably look at other solutions.


Excuse me? Are you trolling? I was not the one comparing others to employees of Redmond or children, nor have I criticised anyone for buying a Mac, which would be absurd considering how much Apple gear I've bought and sold over the past ten years and is currently in this flat, some of which is directly responsible for helping pay the rent and put food on the table. You think that the moderators here are chosen specifically for their antipathy against Apple products?

This is the problem with those who are wholly and unthinkingly uncritical; it's either you're for us or against us, an ideologue's position in other words. I also note you had no response to my previous point about workflows or even the limited range of models.

It is those of us who rely solely on Macs to earn an income and have been doing so for many years that have really earned the chops to take a poke at the company we've been supporting for a long time. Furthermore, as it becomes more difficult to persuade friends to get a Mac because of the bottom-line argument of cost, then it makes me wonder what's really going on.
 
This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, really, so this isn't the place for this. Their legality is being actively determined. It is not illegal to make one yourself, but selling and purchasing one pre-made is questionable.

Ah, I didn't know that their legality was being determined as the companies selling these systems are doing so in many countries. I only asked as no one seemed to address this middle category. As the law hasn't officially addressed companies manufacturing non-Apple produced systems running OS X (court documents have been filed on both sides with no court ordered suspension), I wondered why no one mentioned the prospects should such companies overturn Apple's legal bind over Mac OS X. Whether the courts decide in favor of these companies challenging Apple or not, coupled with Microsoft's recent ad campaign, I wonder if it may result in Apple producing a wider range of affordable systems.
 
Ok... PCs are cheaper but... you get to run Windows...

I have saying for thta: is not the place, is the company.

You can buy a Mac, and still run Windows. I put XP Home on my Mac Pro. Gives me a backup in case my laptop breaks. I run Quicken on the Mac under Windows.

So how does the coolness work if you have a Mac, but still have Windows?
 
...And some of these insults are aimed at people (who know what they're talking about and are not blindly buying Apple for the cool factor) who are willing to stick their neck out and say that Apple has made some dumb decisions.

A company that continues to make a profit and grow its user base is not making a "dumb decision".
 
Netbook, anyone?:D

If my laptop were to break down in June (after my extended warranty ends), with the uncertainty in the economy, and the complete lack of trust I have in our leadership in Washington I probably would buy a netbook. The $300 netbook I saw at Sam's club last week is on the pokey side, but it would probably be adequate for what I really need in a laptop. My desktop is the Mac Pro, and I would just use that more often.
 
Don't Mac's and PC's use the same hardware?? :confused:

The reason I pay more for my Macs is because of the OS and especially because of how easy it is to perform automatic, reliable backups.

Oh ... and because chicks think their cool. :D
 
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