New PowerBooks - Finally

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by Fadl
@rjstanford

you can't compare cinebench on mac with cinebench on a pc.
The Mac version of Cinebench isn't very fast. Far away from being optimized well.

Fair enough - I was just including it as it was quoted to me in a performance test, by someone claiming that the old 1ghz moto was lots faster than the latest intel proc, and (as I said) I wasn't previously familiar with it. Besides, I figured that since it was posted on a mac-oriented site, it would, if anything, favor the mac.

Still, it does seem a little odd to me that people will talk endlessly about performance (or whatever) until their favorite candidate is shown to come in last, and then say, "Well, that's not really important, is it?"

Again, as I've always maintained, Apples are nice - but compared to the alternative, you're paying a high premium for that "niceness", especially if you do a lot of CPU-intensive work. Which isn't the be-all and end-all of life, I agree, especially on days like this where I'm waiting on some specs to be finalized and ditzing around on MacRumors rather than doing intense code/compile cycles.

That, and I admit that I get annoyed when people take a very nice product that could probably stand alone with a decent chunk of its target audience and feel that they have to make it out to be better than it is by bashing everything else in sight. Don't want to make it about performance? Fine by me, as I said the 1.25ghz is getting tempting even with that in consideration. Its when people claim that its a rocketship that I have a problem.

That's all.

-Richard

 

[joelc73]

L3 vs L2

I know different people have speculated regarding the benefits of increased L2 over L3 cache. I'm not entirely clear though. Is the increase in L2 (I believe it's been doubled actually - but I could be wrong) more impactful or important on performance than the 1M of L3 in the "old" PB's? (eg: What matters more L3 or L2?)

Thanks in advance,

 

[rjstanford]

Re: when will we see panther on new power books?

Originally posted by reynoldz21
I was just checking to see if anyone know when panther would be coming out installed on the new power books. Or if anyone has heard how much the upgrade will cost. It seems pretty sensless for me to buy a laptop and a few weeks later I have to spend $100 for the updated operating system. Its the only thing holding me back from purchasing a new 15" powerbook!

The good news is that you don't have to - your new laptop will run very nicely with its current OS.

Of course, if the new OS has a lot of features that are worth, say, $100 to you, then you should buy it. But you certainly won't have to. I don't think that they're putting in any new APIs, or anything else that will restrict you from running the software you want to run on it...

-Richard

 

[reynoldz21]

panther updates

I know, but if I buy a new pb and the operating system is out of date within a short period. that is kinda crappy to me. Im just being picky, I should just get it! right? just tell me to get it!

 

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by knotzo
I have two Dell D800's sitting in front of me as well as a 17" PB. One of the machines has a metal case and two of the machines do not. Guess which one is metal? I will give you a hint... Both Dell machines are made out of grey plastic. Perhaps you should take a magnet to one of your company's D800 cases to see if it is really metal BTW one of the D800's is going up on ebay if you want to personally buy some "Dell Metal" for your scrap yard.

The C400 I think is. *shrugs* At least close inspection it appears that way. I'll bring in a magnet tomorrow. To be sure

Quote from Dell's website for the C400

Sleek styling and durable magnesium-alloy chassis.

 

[Ikash]

i just ordered a new 15" PB the low end and wanted to know of any good ram places or would 256 be enough

 

[SiliconAddict]

...

 

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by Fadl
I hope you'll get 1 or 2 of those "brilliant" Dell plastic toys called notebooks and be happy with 'em.

Got one (1.4ghz 1400x1050 512mb 600M, $1300). Like it. Of course, I like OSX more than XP, and we've got powerbooks floating around too for my family. Once they're more readily available, I'll be getting a Dual 2ghz for my desk (first desktop in a few years). And hey, if the XServes are reasonable, we'll add a few of them, too, down the road (too slow for the money now, and OSX on a server doesn't get you anywhere near the putative usability gain as it does on a workstation compared to Solaris/Linux/whatever).

I think that it partly boils down to attitude - I want to get a tool that allows me to do my work in a friendly and efficient manner, that is cost effective. I will agree that OSX is nicer than XP. I'm not convinced that its $1,000 nicer. On the desktop front, the higher-end systems are pretty cost-competitive - which with the benefits of OSX makes them an easy choice. I was really hoping that the new powerbooks would be the same. Its just very hard to justify a new powerbook, especially as a business purchase, when in almost all other respects (such as hardware) they continue to lag behind their competitors.

-Richard

 

[jpmack]

Originally posted by Ikash
i just ordered a new 15" PB the low end and wanted to know of any good ram places or would 256 be enough

I order often from transintl.com for our many Macs here, or you can check dealram for best prices. 256 is low; I'd go with a minimum 512 (mine will have 1 GB). Of course it depends on how many apps you run at a time, but OS X loves RAM.

 

[StealthRider]

Originally posted by stoid
'bout time, but it's too bad we didn't get G5s

Great, another "we finally got what we've waited for for months but it's not good enough for me and i'm going to bitch about it" person. Sorry, but it's the truth...don't take it as a flame, just an observation, and it's NOT JUST YOU.

 

[Hugin777]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
it appears that way. I'll bring in a magnet tomorrow. To be sure

Quote from Dell's website for the C400:

Sleek styling and durable magnesium-alloy chassis.

hehe - when the magnesium chassis is not attracted to the magnet (because it's not iron, nickel, cobalt nor gadolinium) you can be sure it's only plastic

 

[Hugin777]

Re: panther updates

Originally posted by reynoldz21
I know, but if I buy a new pb and the operating system is out of date within a short period. that is kinda crappy to me. Im just being picky, I should just get it! right? just tell me to get it!

I'm waiting for Panther

My guess is that Jaguar will feel as a beta when Panther arrives... (perhaps it is? ;-)

And, in fact, I think they are adding APIs to Panther. As a recent switcher I still do not understand Apples OS policy, other than getting money. Everyone should get the newest version. That would be easiest for all, also for Apple. But on the other hand I appreciate that the $100 OS subscription is optional

 

[Mineral]

Originally posted by Ikash
i just ordered a new 15" PB the low end and wanted to know of any good ram places or would 256 be enough

256MB of RAM is fine for OS X if you plan on doing nothing once you boot up the computer

No, 512 would be better.. but the more the merrier. I am getting a GB for now, and will upgrade to 1.5 or 2.0 GB whenever memory is available at decent prices.

 

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by StealthRider
Great, another "we finally got what we've waited for for months ..." person. Sorry, but it's the truth...

Hmm. [ looks around for a price/performance competitive system with Apple's stellar styling, OSX, and a 2nd mouse button ] Sorry, but I don't see what I've been waiting for for months... And judging from the 45% negative response on this thread, neither do many other people here...

-Richard

 

[pigwin32]

Aaah, the warm glow of "I told you so". Lets face it, this update is underwhelming and SJ must be spitting tacks, Mot obviously couldn't supply enough 1.3GHz procs to kit out the 15" as well as the 17". Or maybe heat is a problem. Either way, the speed increase on the 15" is disappointing. And the Apple site isn't forthcoming regarding the actual processor in the machines. Surely this amounts to spin.

Having said that, I'm ordering a new 1.25 15" 5400 rpm 80GB because I need some more space, decent airport reception, and a superdrive. The extra speed will be nice.

Is there anyone able to *credibly* comment on the likely impact of removing the L3 cache?

 

[tristan]

PC laptop speed vs mac laptop speed

What a silly argument to have about the laptop product category.

Any new laptop, Mac or PC, will run current software quickly. But if pure speed is what you're after, well then why are you getting a laptop? Desktops are always faster. (And cheaper too.)

Will a 1.25ghz Powerbook G4 be slower than a Dell laptop? Maybe. But are they slow? No, actually, they're extremely fast.

 

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
As we discussed in the PowerBook G5 debate, there's no such thing as a "1.3 GHz processor". All processors come off the same assembly line, and are then tested to see which speed they can safely clock at.

Remember this is the 7457 Family we're talking about, Motorola "has" a top end of 1300MHz on the 7457 chip in all their old documents (even though 1.33 GHz is "hidden" in the documents) ...

Of course the 7455 "has" a top end of 1000MHz -- yet there are 1000/1250/1333/1400 MHz parts. Remember all the overclocked 7455 talk?

And now that Apple has released the machines, maybe Motorola will finally update the 7457 page.

 

[rjstanford]

Re: PC laptop speed vs mac laptop speed

Originally posted by tristan
Any new laptop, Mac or PC, will run current software quickly. But if pure speed is what you're after, well then why are you getting a laptop? Desktops are always faster. (And cheaper too.)

Convenience when travelling, primarily - whether from home to the office, or Starbucks, or on a plane, or wherever. This has convinced me to add a desktop to my collection for the first time in years (G5), but I would have much preferred a single, powerful, OSX-based notebook.

Besides, a 1.7ghz Pentium-M with a 7200rpm hard drive is pretty damn fast, even compared to most desktops. I don't think too many people would complain if Apple came out with a same-speed version of the powerbook...

-Richard

 

[Hugin777]

Missing L3 cache

Originally posted by pigwin32
Is there anyone able to *credibly* comment on the likely impact of removing the L3 cache?

Well, have you seen this link (posted by someone else) ? It looks good to me

And these screen captures compared with results from xbench.com also look nice (even compared with systems running Panther). (Also posted by someone else)

I was worried at first (I wanted L3 cache to run VirtualPC faster), but now I'm convinced that 1 MB of L3 cache in these models would only use more power and generate excessive heat...

Edit: Minor typos

 

[Rickburkett]

Whats with all the bagging on Dell today.

ok, you like your MAC. I like them too. I am a IT consultant and IT manager. I use dell at home and at work. I have very few problems with the 200 or so that I have. Yes their laptops are plastic. ALthough I have never seen a dented Inspiron laptop, I have seen plenty of dented powerbooks on ebay.

I think the power is surely the more elegant of the 2. I just sold my TiPB 667, you can guess why. When I see the best deal I will surely jump. However I may wait until Panther.

SO I like Mac and Dell. its ok

 

[singletrack]

Originally posted by TyleRomeo
look how long it took Moto to produce these 7447 chips and look how expensive they still are. Apple isnt going to wait another 10 months for a slight speed bump in the G4. There will not be another G4 based Powerbook, I'm sorry. Look for next June for G5 powerbooks. At least in the 15' and 17' models, maybe the 12' will get the 1.25 G4 while the 15 and 17 are at 1.4-8GHZ G5

Tyler

Whilst I agree about this probably being the last G4 in the powerbooks, the 7447/7457 were a new process for Moto hence the delay as they didn't invest in building a new plant as early as they needed to and the 7457 comes in at $189 per 1000. The 7447 even less. It's cheaper than the 7455 previously used, at least for Apple. It's probably costing a lot more for Motorola if the low yield stories are true.

I can't see Apple using it anymore, not because of speed issues, as Moto should be able to ramp up the speed more now they are on 0.13, but more because it still uses RapidIO and doesn't support DDR yet when Apple are heading HyperTransport and full on DDR with the G5. Still, it's impressive power/heat wise and would do ok in a future iBook if it wasn't for IBM's Moave 750VX on the horizon and Motorola's prior history.

 

[StealthRider]

Originally posted by rjstanford
Hmm. [ looks around for a price/performance competitive system with Apple's stellar styling, OSX, and a 2nd mouse button ] Sorry, but I don't see what I've been waiting for for months... And judging from the 45% negative response on this thread, neither do many other people here...

-Richard

Not what I meant, sorry I was confusing, I just meant that there were all these rumors, and now that they stop, people complain, and complain, and complain....

 

[ariza910]

WTF!

Only the top of the line 15" powerbook has the fiber optic light up keys.

Take a look at the tech specs, the 1ghz powerbook does not have the optic keys.

Thats not cool at all.

 

[Hugin777]

Originally posted by ariza910
WTF!

Only the top of the line 15" powerbook has the fiber optic light up keys.

Take a look at the tech specs, the 1ghz powerbook does not have the optic keys.

Thats not cool at all.

You can change the keyboard to the Backlit variant for the 1 GHz 15" model.

 

[skymac]

The fiber optica are an option on the 1 ghz, a machine i will be ordering soon
it is however an extra 100 dollars CAD.

just a question, if i upgrade from combo to super do I still get all of the superdrive hardware