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New PowerBooks - Finally
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I've been listening to your arguements all through this thread and I tend to agree that Apple does not have the fastest laptops, or the cheapest. However, if you honestly believe that the extra $500 you would pay for a Mac or slightly slower computer won't be drastically made up for in productivity and ease of use of OS X (not to mention the time you save eradicating viruses from your Wintel machine) in order to justify your business purchase, perhaps an Apple isn't for you. For that matter, why even waste your breath on the argument. It strikes me that if you're on this website, that at least a part of you knows damn well that Apple is the better purchase on so many different levels.
-Dave
edit: Hardware is perhaps the ONLY respect that Apple lags behind and then even, ONLY in their portables, and then even, ONLY in raw speed. Design, ease of use, functionality, and portability, durability, etc., Apple excels... significantly.
Sorry, english is not my primary language
When you order the PBook you can choose to pay extra to get the back lit version. I don't know whether it's possible to exchange the keyboard for a back lit model later on...
Hey Guys,
I am officially switching from the PC world to the Mac world. Woohoo.. ordered my Powerbook 1.25Ghz superdrive this morning. I also ordered the Ipod with it (educational discount + 300CDN rebate).. too sweet of a deal.
Anyway, I will probably be bugging you guys later on when I need help using OSX. Please be gentle on me
Thanks for your attention.
I am officially switching from the PC world to the Mac world. Woohoo.. ordered my Powerbook 1.25Ghz superdrive this morning. I also ordered the Ipod with it (educational discount + 300CDN rebate).. too sweet of a deal.
Anyway, I will probably be bugging you guys later on when I need help using OSX. Please be gentle on me
Thanks for your attention.
Originally posted by cybermat
Anyway, I will probably be bugging you guys later on when I need help using OSX. Please be gentle on me
Congratulations on your switch and here's a little revelation for you, which you might have to get use to coming over from a PC -
You won't need any help with OS X
Thanks Hugin777,
I see the option now. $69 to upgrade to the optic keyboard.
I see the option now. $69 to upgrade to the optic keyboard.
Originally posted by Hugin777
Sorry, english is not my primary language
When you order the PBook you can choose to pay extra to get the back lit version. I don't know whether it's possible to exchange the keyboard for a back lit model later on...
Well, 512k L2 is decent, and the largest in commercial products, I think the DDR RAM will make up for the lack in L3 cache, as the 15 had SDRAM before.
Well, this is a portable thread, and they are the machine of choice if you only want one. Hmm. Only in raw speed? Actually, they're falling further behind with their screens as well, which is a pity since they used to be so nice (they're not worse, just the same, and the rest of the industry has evolved). Definately lacking in DPI these days, and not providing much of a choice about it either They are doing very well in software, and in higher-end desktops, just not so well in portable hardware.
As for design? Points to Apple, no question, although this carries more weight for personal systems than business ones.
Ease of use? Well... I'd say that they're a little behind there (no choice of pointing device, no second mouse button, and a big one - no seperate delete/backspace key).
Functionality - they have nothing other than 2 pins of that 6-pin Firewire connector that their competitors don't. Then again, their competitors have nothing except smart-card readers and infrared that Apple don't. I don't care about firewire or smartcards, I like the infrared port but could get a USB adapter. Almost a tie, with (for me) Apple a couple of points behind.
Portability? Weight, etc, is pretty much the same between Apple and its competitors.
Durability? Well, you don't have as many stories of case cracks with Apple, but you do have warping 12" powerbooks, occasional 17" lid issues, and dented cases. Let's call that one even.
All in all, I'd hardly say that "Apple excels... significantly." Certainly competitive, in everything except software (superior), performance (inferior) and price (inferior) though. And if one of those (such as performance) isn't as big a deal to someone, they'd be a much more even choice.
-Richard
Just for the record, mostly I was responding to people who were claiming one of those two things.
Interestingly enough, viruses, etc, have never been much of an issue with a decent firewall and some common-sense security settings (outlook = restricted zone, don't run random programs).
As for the OSX improvements, the biggest issue there is that most of the time during intensive computer use (as opposed to mindless chatting), I'm not really "using" the interface actively. As long as I have my editor, compiler, etc, what I really want is snappy performance. Everything else is pretty much the same no matter what OS I'm using (even Windows - your basic POSIX tools are available on anything these days). Many people are the same when it comes to working - something that even OS9 exceled in was catering to the crew who used one app (almost) to the exclusion of all else.
The computer is a tool, most of the time. If it was more expensive for OSX and just as fast as the latest intels, I'd probably have ordered one already. Slower, but just as cheap? Hmm... quite possibly. Its just very hard to justify slower and more expensive, with the potential for higher support costs down the road (software, etc - MS Office for OSX isn't included in our Microsoft partnership deals, whereas the Windows version of it is). Especially since picking up this $1300 Dell when I got tired of waiting for the new alBook to be announced.
Just call me someone who uses all sorts of systems, and was looking for a compelling reason to move the company standard to Apple for laptops, and didn't find one. After seeing the new desktops, I don't think it was so unreasonable to hope for...
-Richard
I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one. Even my PC friends agree that the Mac is far easier to use and just because you don't use firewire doesn't mean that it's not more functional. On the whole it is... it just doesn't matter to you.
How about opening up your laptop on a wireless PC network and just having your Mac see all the other PC's on the network, and other macs too. How functional is that? Or networking your whole Mac office, then turning all the computers on, and it just works without any configuration. How functional is that? Or how about zero viruses for OS X and never having to worry about a security patch. Or connecting to my home mac from work with a simple IP address. Or turning my mac into an FTP server or an Apache web server, how functional is that? I could tout functionality features all day that Windows machines could only dream to have embedded in its OS, but you apperntly don't see that as part of the value of owning a Mac, your loss IMO.
Mac is so much more than hardware and believe me I never made the claim that it was all about the hardware, that was others you refuted on this thread. I made the claim that the whole package is worth so much more, significantly more, than the extra $500 for the Mac and the slightly slower speed.
-Dave
other benefits of a pb
I just switched, (about 6 weeks now) well actually I have been waiting for these new powerbooks to come out before taking the plunge, but it as it turns out, I got a 12in pb to use for work before I bought my own. Worked out well for me, I got to try it out before making the plunge, and I could be patient until the hardware I wanted came out.
As a long time pc user I have been loving OS X. For raw speed maybe a pc is faster (but I can definitely vouch that a g4 is far fasted than an equivalent pentium chip) The big benefit I see is uptime and stability and the ability to run the processor intensive tasks in the background. It doesn't always work as advertised on a pc. Burn a cd, and watch the CD progress go slowly. You can't really do any thing else. On my pb, I am burning the cd, installing new software and checking my email. For me that is more than worth the slight drop in raw power.
Another benfit: the automatic networking and long uptime. When you are travelling who wants to deal with network configuration and everything else. You just want your computer to work (and solve problems quickly when it is not)
Whats most inportant is not having to troubleshoot as much, and when I did it wasn't that horrible to figure out the problem. If you are at work and your computer goes down, you can call your in-house IT guy. When your not, well it takes a lot longer to find an IT guy to fix it for you, or troubleshoot it yourself. I'd much rather avoid that worry because my time is more valuable, and that makes up for the price premium.
And hey even if a better/new powerbook comes out, there are always plenty of takers on your old model, and you get much higher resale value. Not to many people choose to buy an old pc laptop on ebay for near the original price paid. (more like 50% of price paid)
Plus the ilife, art directors toolkit, quickbooks, onmigraffle and outliner should also be accounted for in your price comparison. I belive tacking on quickbooks ups the price of your dell $300, and the iphoto/imovie/itunes combo adds to price as well. Oh of course another built in benefit saving to pdf....that is another add-on software cost you will need to consider.
My configuration Dell D800
1.3 p4-m
512 2 dimms
NVIDIA® GeForce4 4200 Go 4XAGP graphics w/64MB DDR Video Memory
60 GB 4200 rpm
xp home
office xp small business
dvd + RW
bluetooth
Dell TrueMobile 1300 WLAN (802.11b/g
Quickbooks pro for windows (retail $299.95)
Ovation Outliner (retail $39.95, to replace onmioutliner)
Select process revolution 3.5 (retail $99, replaces onmigraffle)
Art Directors tool kit (retail 39.95)
$2792
vs $2999 for the 15.2 pb w/ superdrive and microsoft office standard
The price difference really isn't as large as you think.
I just switched, (about 6 weeks now) well actually I have been waiting for these new powerbooks to come out before taking the plunge, but it as it turns out, I got a 12in pb to use for work before I bought my own. Worked out well for me, I got to try it out before making the plunge, and I could be patient until the hardware I wanted came out.
As a long time pc user I have been loving OS X. For raw speed maybe a pc is faster (but I can definitely vouch that a g4 is far fasted than an equivalent pentium chip) The big benefit I see is uptime and stability and the ability to run the processor intensive tasks in the background. It doesn't always work as advertised on a pc. Burn a cd, and watch the CD progress go slowly. You can't really do any thing else. On my pb, I am burning the cd, installing new software and checking my email. For me that is more than worth the slight drop in raw power.
Another benfit: the automatic networking and long uptime. When you are travelling who wants to deal with network configuration and everything else. You just want your computer to work (and solve problems quickly when it is not)
Whats most inportant is not having to troubleshoot as much, and when I did it wasn't that horrible to figure out the problem. If you are at work and your computer goes down, you can call your in-house IT guy. When your not, well it takes a lot longer to find an IT guy to fix it for you, or troubleshoot it yourself. I'd much rather avoid that worry because my time is more valuable, and that makes up for the price premium.
And hey even if a better/new powerbook comes out, there are always plenty of takers on your old model, and you get much higher resale value. Not to many people choose to buy an old pc laptop on ebay for near the original price paid. (more like 50% of price paid)
Plus the ilife, art directors toolkit, quickbooks, onmigraffle and outliner should also be accounted for in your price comparison. I belive tacking on quickbooks ups the price of your dell $300, and the iphoto/imovie/itunes combo adds to price as well. Oh of course another built in benefit saving to pdf....that is another add-on software cost you will need to consider.
My configuration Dell D800
1.3 p4-m
512 2 dimms
NVIDIA® GeForce4 4200 Go 4XAGP graphics w/64MB DDR Video Memory
60 GB 4200 rpm
xp home
office xp small business
dvd + RW
bluetooth
Dell TrueMobile 1300 WLAN (802.11b/g
Quickbooks pro for windows (retail $299.95)
Ovation Outliner (retail $39.95, to replace onmioutliner)
Select process revolution 3.5 (retail $99, replaces onmigraffle)
Art Directors tool kit (retail 39.95)
$2792
vs $2999 for the 15.2 pb w/ superdrive and microsoft office standard
The price difference really isn't as large as you think.
Oops. I was reading the roadmap for future Moto processors. They are going RapidIO. You're right of course that the 74xx still keeps the same old 60x/MPX bus.
New PB Cool sow start selling stuff to get one...
New PB looks cool, Now only if I can sell my road bike and sony laptop I will have enough to afford one + apple care+ MS Office+ at least one fun game.
ha ha
I surely hope the lack of L3 doesn't slow it down. I can't imagine they would do that. ANyhoo who wants to trade a Trek Project One for a 1ghz 17 ALbook???
ha ha
New PB looks cool, Now only if I can sell my road bike and sony laptop I will have enough to afford one + apple care+ MS Office+ at least one fun game.
ha ha
I surely hope the lack of L3 doesn't slow it down. I can't imagine they would do that. ANyhoo who wants to trade a Trek Project One for a 1ghz 17 ALbook???
ha ha
Just like infrared and smartcard readers don't matter to you. Its all relative.
Er, that's all software. Which I said that OSX was better at. Although, I can do all of those things very easily with my XP machine as well, quite frankly. As for the security patches, both Apple and Microsoft have their update services, running either system without the updates is not a great idea.
Yeah, I was responding specifically to your comment, "Hardware is perhaps the ONLY respect that Apple lags behind and then even, ONLY in their portables, and then even, ONLY in raw speed." if you check the thread.
-Richard
So I just called all the Apple Stores in the Los Angeles area, and none of the expect to have the new 15" powerbook until Thursday. I understand that is much better than the PowerMac situation, but I was expecting them to be available today. Oh well, the wait continues.
Does anyone know if the stores have ones with single 512 DIMMs? Or can that only be bought online?
Does anyone know if the stores have ones with single 512 DIMMs? Or can that only be bought online?
Re: other benefits of a pb
Er, we already had this conversation - try:
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38417&perpage=40&pagenumber=9#post497379
and
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38417&perpage=40&pagenumber=8#post497303
for comparisons (since hashed to death), or
http://www.barefeats.com/quick.html (a mac site) and
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35845&perpage=40&pagenumber=7#post468642 for performance of the Pentium-M (to save lots of reading, figure a P-M and a G5 being about the same, clock-for-clock. Really. Check spec.org for more details on the slower arch low-power 1ghz P-M if you're skeptical).
Oh, and I'm pretty sure you left the 4-year onsite warranty coverage in your Dell quote. And adding $300 for quickbooks? C'mon...
Either way, I think we covered this topic by now
Er, we already had this conversation - try:
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38417&perpage=40&pagenumber=9#post497379
and
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38417&perpage=40&pagenumber=8#post497303
for comparisons (since hashed to death), or
http://www.barefeats.com/quick.html (a mac site) and
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35845&perpage=40&pagenumber=7#post468642 for performance of the Pentium-M (to save lots of reading, figure a P-M and a G5 being about the same, clock-for-clock. Really. Check spec.org for more details on the slower arch low-power 1ghz P-M if you're skeptical).
Oh, and I'm pretty sure you left the 4-year onsite warranty coverage in your Dell quote. And adding $300 for quickbooks? C'mon...
Either way, I think we covered this topic by now
Hey, I'm just curious and I really don't want you to take this the wrong way because I truly don't mean it to sound rude at all, but why are you here? You own a Dell and don't seem to see any real value in OS X. What prompted you to think about a Mac in the first place?
Again, I'm not asking to be rude or to tell you to go away, I'm just curious because I can't seem to put it together based on your comments. I can't see why you wanted a Mac in the first place if you see no real value in the things that most people absolutely love Macs for.
Help using OS X
The BIG SURPRISE will be how little help you will need. No more C Drive D Drive. no more Blue Screen of Death...
Originally posted by cybermat
Hey Guys,
I am officially switching from the PC world to the Mac world. Woohoo.. ordered my Powerbook 1.25Ghz superdrive this morning. I also ordered the Ipod with it (educational discount + 300CDN rebate).. too sweet of a deal.
Anyway, I will probably be bugging you guys later on when I need help using OSX. Please be gentle on me
Thanks for your attention.
The BIG SURPRISE will be how little help you will need. No more C Drive D Drive. no more Blue Screen of Death...
You're serious aren't you?
I've not come across a single laptop that comes with a mouse. If you want a two button scroll mouse, go buy one - I did. Plugged it in, it worked with no extra software.
No delete key? Possibly. I missed it for about 2 weeks switching, now I don't notice it at all. I notice the silly transposition of quote and @ more and that there's no hash key on an iBook - it's Option-3.
Who the hell uses Infrared? Sorry, but after years of balancing mobile phones on my lap at just the right angle and peering over the top of my Toshiba screen to make sure the phone was lined up, getting Bluetooth on my iBook and a Nokia 6310i and now a Sony Ericsson T610 makes infrared obsolete. I know you're mobile phone poor in the USA unlike Europe but really - Infrared? That's sooo 90's.
Card adaptors - you can get USB card adaptors and they often support multiple card types whereas built in slots of PC Card adaptors don't.
But at the end of the day, most Mac users couldn't give a stuff if a Dell is cheaper or marginally faster. That's entirely missing the point.
I like Macs, indeed I've bought 2 12" powerbook for other people (who have different needs than I do). I enjoy using OSX for the most part. I wanted to see if Apple would produce a powerbook that met my needs, as they did with the powermac. That doesn't mean that I think that all Macs are holy, or worth spending any amount of money on. If I can get a Dell that's eq. to the powerbook for $1,000 less (and I did), then that's a better deal, although not as much of a better deal as it was 24 hours ago. I realize better now that its heresy to think that Apple may not have done everything perfectly...
I'd have a dual G5 desktop now, as a matter of fact, if they had got their supply strategy sorted out. That machine I see as good, justifiable value for money.
-Richard
Quickbooks: thats how much intuit charges, and I did remove the 4 year support. But the price of the computer wasn't the point....I switched, and probably a lot of other people did to because of the value-adds that are not included in the price of the computer.
Last week I spent 2.5 hours trying to troubleshoot why my computer (win 98) couldn't install the drivers for my network card and wireless keyboard and mouse. That is one PC thing I am all to happy to leave behind. Time savings like those are priceless.
http://quickbooks.intuit.com/commerce/catalog/product.jhtml?priorityCode=0273400000&prodId=prod22001
Last week I spent 2.5 hours trying to troubleshoot why my computer (win 98) couldn't install the drivers for my network card and wireless keyboard and mouse. That is one PC thing I am all to happy to leave behind. Time savings like those are priceless.
http://quickbooks.intuit.com/commerce/catalog/product.jhtml?priorityCode=0273400000&prodId=prod22001
Argh. Mouse with a laptop? I'd rather not. Although it is amusing watching people trying to balance a laptop and a mouse on an airport tray... but not for me, thank you. I prefer the self-contained portability that is a laptop.
It always bugs me for some reason. Guess its what you're used to.
Actually, we're on GSM now, so that's evened up. And even the crappy Dells have bluetooth in 'em. Nah, the infrared is for my running heart-rate/position gizmo to interface without cables (like I said, it matters a little to me but not a lot).
Agreed, and I don't care about it - but I don't care about the extra 2 pins on the firewire connector, either. My original point was that they were damn near identical, where it was claimed that apple was significantly ahead in that area.
Agreed -- but when its significantly cheaper and faster? Why do you think this thread got so many negative votes?
-Richard
Well, cheers to you for being able to stomach Windows after working on and owning a Mac, you are far different than most who have switched I'd venture to guess.
Seems like for your needs (raw performance), you are probably waiting on a PB G5. I hope that Dell works out for you in the interim <shudder>.
Go forth bravely!