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New PowerBooks - Finally

Originally posted by Mr. G4
There is another route to take to save you even more.

Sign up as student developer by paying $99
Then buy the hardware for one time:

15' 1GHz combo is US$1,599.00
On that one invoice you can add other stuff like iPod 40GB US$399, iSight US$119 etc...
Click to expand...

True, but I'm not really a student devloper(Sadly) and I woudlnt' really want to screw the sytem by pretending to be one(Even though I COULD be one). ;) (not sure if they have the student developer thing in for canada apple store anyway...ah well)

And to answer someone else's comment, yeah, I got the backlit as a built-to-order option....it wasn't standard (got a discount on the upgrade though)....
 
New PBs in BestBuy?

If any of you has information on when Best Buy will updated their PBs, I would appreciate it.

Right now, BestBuy.com still carry the previous PB versions (of the 12", at least).

I am itchin' here......
 
1.25GHz vs. 1.33GHz

Originally posted by Omek
Why did Apple do this to me... now I have to decide between a 17" with more weight that's thinner and has a faster processor and a 15" that's a little bit thicker and has a slower processor but is much lighter....
Click to expand...

Well don't let the processor speed throw you. I think you can count the number of times you'll be able to tell the difference between 1.25GHz and 1.33GHz on zero hands.
 
Re: 1.25GHz vs. 1.33GHz

Originally posted by tuc
Well don't let the processor speed throw you. I think you can count the number of times you'll be able to tell the difference between 1.25GHz and 1.33GHz on zero hands.
Click to expand...

The difference is 110 MHz.

That's twice as fast as my 6100.
 
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Originally posted by ethernet76
Well, 512k L2 is decent, and the largest in commercial products, I think the DDR RAM will make up for the lack in L3 cache, as the 15 had SDRAM before.
Click to expand...


No, it had DDR before.
Click to expand...

Actually no, the 15" did not have DDR ram before.

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
It's the 7447. Someone assumed the 7457, but it really wasn't
Click to expand...

That's quite true but the only difference between the 7447 and the 7457 is the pin count. The 7447 has a smaller footprint intended for laptops while the 7457 has a larger foot print thus cheaper and can be used for everything else.

Check out the summary pages for yourself.

MPC7447

MPC7457

The pages are line for line identical except for the part about the pin count and size.
 
All I need now is a book called "iSwitch".

Tomorrow (err ... today), I will be heading down to the campus store, and buying a new 15" powerbook, and for once my school has actually done something good:

"*NEW** 15" POWERBOOK SPECIAL PRICE - A special bulk purchase enables us to offer the brand new 15" Powerbook 1.25GHz/512MB/80GB/SuperDrive/AirportExtreme/Bluetooth/BacklitKeyboard at a price of $1995. This is a limited quantity purchase and it is not clear if we will be able to repeat this offer when they are gone. Until September 27th, there is a $200 rebate if you purchase a Powerbook and an iPod. Another $100 back if you also buy a selected printer."

So i'll be getting:
$1995 15" Powerbook 1.25/512/80/Superdrive
$ 369 20GB Ipod
$ 239 3 years of Apple Care
$ 100 Printer
$-300 Rebates
$2403 Total

(FYI, "retail" ~= 3547 - whatever rebates are still availible).

I'll also be selling my old iPod & iTrip for $200 (already have a buyer), so I guess its really $2203.

Also, _please_ don't refer to any x86 machine as "wintel". My x86 machines don't know what this "win" you speak of is, perhaps you forgot the "e" on "wine". Just because it comes from dell doesn't mean that it is inherently corrupted (well it is inherently corrupted, but you can get away with never seeing windows run on one).

And, there is such a thing as style from the x86 side of things, IBM has these things called "thinkpads" (like the one i'm on right now), and they have a very classy understated look to them, (and are very reliable, and well constructed). Anyone who tries to argue that these things don't have style, are either overzealous ... zealots, or fools. (I've seen T40s IRL, and they are phenomonal little machines, _almost_ phenomonal enough to keep me on the x86 side of things.

And to keep this a bit more on topic:
I am a student of comptuer science, and am quite familliar with the theory behind caches et all. They are really complicated, thus when I first saw that powerbooks have a L3 cache, I thought it was crazy. There is a certain amount of overhead associated with caching stuff, and I am guessing that doubling the L2 cache would be comprable to having a large L3 cache.
 
Originally posted by MacBandit
That's quite true but the only difference between the 7447 and the 7457 is the pin count. The 7447 has a smaller footprint intended for laptops while the 7457 has a larger foot print thus cheaper and can be used for everything else.

Check out the summary pages for yourself.

MPC7447

MPC7457

The pages are line for line identical except for the part about the pin count and size.
Click to expand...

Also, 7447 does not support L3 cache.
 
quote:
Originally posted by ethernet76
Well, 512k L2 is decent, and the largest in commercial products, I think the DDR RAM will make up for the lack in L3 cache, as the 15 had SDRAM before.

quote:
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac

No, it had DDR before.

Originally posted by MacBandit Actually no, the 15" did not have DDR ram before.
[/B]
Click to expand...

True, the 17 and the 12 did. Unfortunately, that DDR isn't gonna make much difference as the 74*7 chips don't support DDR at all. So memory is going to run at single data rate anyway. I guess the faster ram is going to be able to keep up with the 167Mhz system bus, which PC133 wouldn't be able to do.
 
Originally posted by panphage
quote:
Originally posted by ethernet76
Well, 512k L2 is decent, and the largest in commercial products, I think the DDR RAM will make up for the lack in L3 cache, as the 15 had SDRAM before.

quote:
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac

No, it had DDR before.



True, the 17 and the 12 did. Unfortunately, that DDR isn't gonna make much difference as the 74*7 chips don't support DDR at all. So memory is going to run at single data rate anyway. I guess the faster ram is going to be able to keep up with the 167Mhz system bus, which PC133 wouldn't be able to do.
Click to expand...

The DDR ram isn't totally wasted. With Apples DMA (Direct Memory Access) all system components can access the RAM at there max capable speed. So in affect video cards and other system components can use the DDR memory just not the crummy Moto G4 chip.

From tests I have seen the DDR ram does give about a 10% overall improvement in system performance so it's not a total sham.
 
I just bought final cut pro 4 to go with my new albook (due within about 4 days). Are there clif notes for the manual? I don't think I have the kind of time required to read it.
 
Hard drive (4200 vs. 5400)

Originally posted by crees!
I asked someone and this is the response I got.. I'm going for the 5400rpm drive.


Here are the numbers for an IBM 4200 rpm drive (I don't know what brand
apple is using)

details omitted

Here are the numbers for an IBM 5400 rpm drive:

details omitted

Click to expand...


Well. According to the screen shots found here Apple is using a Fujitsu MHT2080AT in the 1.25 GHz PowerBook.

I think it's resonable to believe that the drives used are those found here (MHT series - 4200 rpm) and here (MHT20xxAH - 5400 rpm).

Noise (idle): 2.3 -> 2.9 Bels
Buffer Size: 2 -> 8 MB
R/W: 2.1 -> 2.3 Watt
Standby: 0.25 Watt (unchanged)
Idle: 0.65 -> 0.85 Watt

I don't know about the speed increase yet...
 
Noise ?

Originally posted by MacChicken
I hope the new 15" is whisper quiet!

Not like the Ti1Ghz with the jet-engine sound!
Click to expand...

Me too ! I'm primarily buying a laptop because my current Power Mac G4 (PCI) is far too noisy. I've found a marble plate that I'm intending to put my PowerBook on - it should help keep it cold and quiet :) And if it's still too noisy I can just close the lid for instant drop of noise level :D

But I can't decide whether to get the 5400 rpm hard drive. It looks like it really would be faster (and I will use my PowerBook as a desktop replacement) - but how much more noisy it will get (due to more heat and more rpm) I do not know...
 
Re: Hard drive (4200 vs. 5400)

Originally posted by Hugin777
Noise (idle): 2.3 -> 2.9 Bels
Buffer Size: 2 -> 8 MB
R/W: 2.1 -> 2.3 Watt
Standby: 0.25 Watt (unchanged)
Idle: 0.65 -> 0.85 Watt

I don't know about the speed increase yet...
Click to expand...

The best information I have found is here (4200 rpm) and here (5400 rpm). It's hard to see any performance difference (only shorter "Average rotational waiting time" - but that's a no brainer).

It would be interesting to see some xbench comparisons between the two drive models.
 
Originally posted by vitaboy
"Chassis" means the frame, so in the case of the Dell C400, it's most like a magnesium alloy frame with plastic or metallized plastic panels mounted around it. Don't know for sure, though, but I seriously doubt Dell would put any money into an all metal case.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=chassis
Click to expand...

Ya I know what the term means. That's what's confusing me. Sleek stylish frame?!?! Who gives a crap about the frame? I was thinking, hoping?, typo. All I know is when you rap on the case it sound metallic not plastic. Every time I've looked at the case its been the cover or the bottom. I'll check out the rest tomorrow. I'm certain UR right. My little old Latitude has a metal cover for the screen and a metal base but the rest is plastic. *shrugs* :eek:
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Phil of Mac

The difference is 110 MHz.

That's twice as fast as my 6100.
Click to expand...

1330-1250=80GHz or 6.5% faster...

there is such a thing as style from the x86 side of things, IBM has these things called "thinkpads" (like the one i'm on right now), and they have a very classy understated look to them, (and are very reliable, and well constructed). Anyone who tries to argue that these things don't have style, are either overzealous
Click to expand...

This is what I am thinking if you want quality from a Win laptop your best bet is IBM BUT they tend to be as expensive or more expensive than seemilar PBs. So sure IBMs are good and they would be a viable alternative to a PB if and only if they were running OS X.

Richard I respect your opinion but I do not understand your motives for the multiple posts on this thread...

Sure PBs are not the fastest laptops on earth and sure XP has come a long way to be an OK OS and sure you can find many much cheaper laptops on the Win side. I respect the fact that you love your 1300$ Dell. I respect your opinion that it is much faster than a PB at 1.25GHz. I respect your wish that the new G4 PBs were G5 PBs (Although I am still unconviced that you would buy one since they would still be double the price of your Dell and just on par with the speed of your Dell). I also respect your right to be dissappointed on the new updates. I respect your right to come to this thread to see what others thing about the updates and aslo your right to post your opinion. But I do not respect people that do not know when to rest their point. If you are sure of the superiority of your product and happy with your choice I do not understand why you keep replying to people that think otherwise. Are you trying to convince them or you, or do you HAVE to convince them that you are right. In either case you make your self look like a fool...
 
To buy'n'switch or not...

Originally posted by vrapan
Richard I respect your opinion but I do not understand your motives for the multiple posts on this thread...

(text omitted)

Are you trying to convince them or you, or do you HAVE to convince them that you are right. In either case you make your self look like a fool...
Click to expand...

I don't think he looks like a fool. I think his struggle is interesting. He really wants a Mac (and he's buying the 2x2GHz AFAICT), but he just can't convince himself to buy a PowerBook - let alone his company. So he's disappointed and frustrated. I can understand that.

Mac OS X is just better. I have used a lot of years to try out Windows, OS/2, Linux, BeOS and FreeBSD. My favourite was OS/2, but it died (partially killed by MS). Then FreeBSD, but it's so frustrating to get the software everyone uses (eg. Flash for homepages :) Mac OS X is just my dream come true: a FreeBSD-like OS with a beautiful interface using display PDF. It's the holy grail of OS's, really :)
 
Re: To buy'n'switch or not...

Originally posted by Hugin777
I don't think he looks like a fool. I think his struggle is interesting. He really wants a Mac (and he's buying the 2x2GHz AFAICT), but he just can't convince himself to buy a PowerBook - let alone his company. So he's disappointed and frustrated. I can understand that.
Click to expand...
Most of my comments yesterday (FBRs finally came in today, so I'm working not posting again) were directly in response to people claiming that the Powerbook was either much cheaper or much faster than anything people like Dell put out. If someone wants to buy Apple for any number of good reasons, that's great. I'd hate to think that people were honestly buying them because they believed one of these two reasons though, since they're not actually very true. That's all.

I guess it gets to me when people can't appreciate a great machine (like the powerbook) for what it is, and feel that they have to belittle everything else to make it seem better. Dare mention that there are features that its missing (like a high DPI screen) even, and most (not all) will tell you that your eyes must be defective rather than admitting that there's a potential problem for some people with an otherwise great product. Actually, even that doesn't bother me near as much as the downright lies (one guy was even arguing that the 1ghz G4 was as fast as the 1.6ghz P-M IIRC). In an evaluation of a new product, the truth should have its place.

-Richard
 
Re: Re: To buy'n'switch or not...

Originally posted by rjstanford
Actually, even that doesn't bother me near as much as the downright lies (one guy was even arguing that the 1ghz G4 was as fast as the 1.6ghz P-M IIRC). In an evaluation of a new product, the truth should have its place.
Click to expand...

Right. I wouldn't call that a lie though. As far as I can tell it's like comparing apples and oranges; I wouldn't be surprised if a PowerBook is faster than a 1.6ghz P-M in some applications and slower in others. I just don't care. I want OS X, I want instant on after deep sleep, I want portability, FireWire, etc. etc. :) I want a PowerBook 15" 1.25 GHz :)
 
I just ordered a new 17" PowerBook and it's going to ship today! I should have it in a couple days. I gotta hand it to Apple on this one. I can't wait...

Paul
 
Re: To buy'n'switch or not...

Originally posted by Hugin777
I don't think he looks like a fool. I think his struggle is interesting. He really wants a Mac (and he's buying the 2x2GHz AFAICT), but he just can't convince himself to buy a PowerBook - let alone his company. So he's disappointed and frustrated. I can understand that.

Mac OS X is just better. I have used a lot of years to try out Windows, OS/2, Linux, BeOS and FreeBSD. My favourite was OS/2, but it died (partially killed by MS). Then FreeBSD, but it's so frustrating to get the software everyone uses (eg. Flash for homepages :) Mac OS X is just my dream come true: a FreeBSD-like OS with a beautiful interface using display PDF. It's the holy grail of OS's, really :)
Click to expand...


I feel the same way. I'm running linux now, pretty cool os with lot of interresting features(gentoo especialy), but i always need windows to run photoshop, flash, etc. Since OS X, you realy have the best of those 2 operating system. You can run good proprietary software and you can alway run linux apps like Lyx/Latex,vi/emacs, etc. (just need a little recompiling)

I am now a proud owner of 15" 1.25ghz PB, and i just can't wait to get rid of my old pc. :D

I will give my old pc laptop to my girlfriend and try to teach her how to use *nix OS. maybe she will be the next switcher:cool:
 
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