New Powerbooks Next Week?

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by buffsldr

Please explain. What do you mean "far behind". I wonder why you choose specs as a measure of success.

You make some valid points, but the whole crux of the matter is that there are better and proven ways of making things faster - system bus, ddr ram, etc. and Apple isn't using then yet. By keeping with the current mobo design they save money, they're trying to push this as far as they go before they have to 'retool' their whole assembly process and start over from scratch.

I have to agree that if Apple started making the newer system it would be great and its over due. But I think at some point they're also waiting for something, so maybe it will be worth the wait. And I'm sticking to my prediction that they won't be putting out new TiPBs a week before WWDC, that if they do come out Jobs will announce it in the KeyNote - anyone feel like betting?

 

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by Vilacr
Have you ever used a P4 1.7 ghz..now 1.8 ghz? If you have then you would know there is no way a G4 667 or the soon to be 800 mhz can out perform it. What about ddr ram and 64 meg graphics cards and the 400 mhz bus. Regardless of how the 400 mhz bus is achieved it is faster than the 133mhz apple is giving us. Ripping cd's isn't something I do but cad and design is...a pc rules in this area for there isn't much mac software here. I love my Tipb but apple needs to give us more. They are falling to far behind. Maybe not for a graphics artist but for the rest of us it is.

The history of the Mac platform is no different from others. Certain key applications become available and drive sales.

What the mac needs is that huge segment of business that runs Autocad, solid modeling and engineering applications. They are sufficiently in the graphics and printing arena as to be compatible and require the system resources Apple has or is about to deliver in the short future. My advise is simple. Get key aplications on OSX and bring hoards of users with them.

Rocketman.

 

[drastik]

right on Back

I know that a lot of usesers here are in it for the speed and the prestige. Believe me, being able to stick it to the wintel shmoes on every front would be great.

But I think it comes down to somehting else. As long as they run at a decent speed, I'll still use a mac. Personaly I couldn't care less what the PC world thinks, besides wanting apple to take more of the market. I use macs because the are usefull, don't get in the way of my work, and more elegant than any beige box in the world ( I guess I should say black and silver boxes now).

As a side note, my neighbor runs an IT outsourcing firm hire in Nashville. They use wintel machines, UNIX, and he just hired a Linux guy. All of this to say, his home network is pretty nicely set up, a couple of pIVs and a PII for a file server.

After spending around a grand on firewire ports and a new video card, he couldn't get his PC to work with his $1500 dv cam. He brought it over to my place because he thought it might be a problem with the camera. I cant easily get to the back of my tower because my workspace is small and I have a lot of crap pile in there, so we hooked it to my old G3 Firebook. Plug it in, open iMovie, bang, camera works fine.

I felt like showing off a little, so I ripped his tape to VCD and gave him some lower rez clips to email out. To make a long story short, he came home with an iMac two days later.

Macs appeal to a certian type of person, and if ease of use is what you crave, along with a solid OS the oppertunity to tweak the code without getting shutout by fatal errors, X is the way to go. Screw the stats, if my Firebook can do allright on X almost any machine made in the last three years can. Soempeople want to run it on a n unsupported machine, I'm sory, but the tech is old. Can't use XP on a 486 either.

------------------------------------------------------
Be careful, XP just emailed Bill to tell him you're on a mac site.

 

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by mcrain
First, sorry for the multiple posts, but I'm waiting to buy a powerbook, so I'm hot under the coller.

Anyway, would everyone still be all worked up and angry about only a bump to 800 mhz if the chip that was running at that speed was a G5?

Just curious.

If you ignore the incessant whining of rumor sites and look only at the price benefit of the rumored 667 vs the rumored 800 TiPB the 800 seems to have a slight cost benefit edge. I cannot remember the last time this was the case for any powerbook where the top of the line did not have a silly price premium.

Rocketman

 

[serpicolugnut]

Love my PB, but the Dell post has merit..

Look, you can blindly bash someone comparing the PB to a Dell, but the Dell post has it's merit. Keep in mind I own a PBG4/500, and generally am happy with it. However, the Dell offers quite a bit...

The nVidia Quadro2 graphics chip BLOWS away the Mobile Radeon in the PB, not just with double the VRAM, but also with a much more powerful chipset. Try running Lightwave on a Powerbook and you'll know what I mean.

Also, the Dell has DDR RAM, which Apple is long over due to implement.

Someone posted that the Dell can't run FCP, and that's true. But that's about the only advantage it doesn't have.

Apple's pro laptop sales have really dipped over the last 6 months, and it's really easy to see why. People paying for a PRO laptop want PROFESSIONAL features. Apple needs to get it through their heads that battery life isn't the main focus of these users. Put in the fastest chip (or chips) you can, outfit it with the best graphics chip you can (nVidia), and finally, fix the damn problem the TiBooks have with Airport range.

I really want to replace my PBG4/500, but if rumors are to be believed, it looks like it will be quite some time until I can.

 

[cmoney]

Originally posted by Backtothemac



.....Zipper sound on a flame retardant suit.
OK. Total specs please. What 128 megs of ram on each. Await, I am sorry, 64 mb on the cube right. Also to your post before this. I don't know what you really do work on (probably an iMac 233), but OS X is not God awful slow on anything that is "modern". That is to say that an iBook 600, iMac G3 600 and up procs. I have an iMac 600 SE with a gig of ram, and it will blow the doors off of every PC I have a work. You see at work we have PC, and my iBook 600 with 384 megs of ram that will outperform the 1GHZ PIII's when doing photoshop. The PIII isn't a PIV you say? Well, my boss has a nice new IBM 1.6GHZ PIV with 256 megs of ram. He is anti Mac. Brought my iMac up here for a little photoshop bakeoff.... Yea, I have 768megs of more memory but he has 1,000 MHZ on me. His pride and joy, just did beat my little iMac. I mean just by a bit to. So, dont tell me that the dual 1GHZ won't stomp the A$$ off of a PIV. I am not stupid. I look at real world. And you know what? If the Mac doesn't do what you want, then go hug a PC like any other clone.

I don't give a crap about GHZ at all. Would you rather have a V-12 motor that pushes your car from 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, or a V-6 motor that will get it there in 5.3? Same logic hear. Bigger is not always better.

Also, you fail to address one point. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT SPEED THEY HAVE, THEY STILL RUN $HITDOZE!

huh? 64MB on the cube? try 512MB.

$hitdoze may suck but once I'm in Photoshop, once I'm in JBuilder, once I'm in (insert cross-platform application here), it doesn't matter. My PC desktop at work may not have the uptime of an OS X machine but it is at 5 days or so which means I run for the whole week without crashing.

Sure a dual 1GHz machine is fast. It's plenty fast. But I can buy 2-3 PCs for that price. If that means I can equip 3 people at work with a PC instead one graphic designer with the top Mac then so be it.

Besides, I was complaining about PowerBook speeds under OS X, not desktops.

 

[cmoney]

Re: Re: A voice of reason!

Originally posted by Xapplimatic


Nothing happened to the argument.. It's not an argument. It's a fact.. Let's see here...

G4 Apollo 800.. 15 Watts.
AMD Athlon ..... 55 Watts!

Does that even sound comparable? Nah.. do any windows laptops get the battery life of a TiBook? The vast majority aren't even close. Why? Cause their stupid processors suck more than twice the power! Pentium and AMD power sucking is outpacing the increases in battery tech. "Polymer" batteries can hack it you say? Nobody uses it in laptops yet. Too expensive. And even so, nomatter what the same level of batter will still go that much farther lifewise on a G4 than a P4.

Is that for the mobile versions of PC CPUs? And OS X sure blows the argument though since its power management is near non-existant right now. My iBook used to get 3 hours under OS 9. Now I'm overjoyed if I reach the 2 hour mark. Same goes for my PowerBook G3 and a friend's TiBook. My 900MHz Duron easily matches battery times of my iBook and PBG3 when they run under OS X.

 

[cmoney]

Re: ADC

Originally posted by Matthé
am I the only one missing an ADC output besides the faster bus and ddr ram?

Well as long as it doesn't replace the VGA port I wouldn't mind having the ADC port. Sure would make the Cinema Display much more tempting, especially since my ADC (developer, not connector) discount gets me a $1999 Cinema Display. I just don't wanna have to carry an extra adapter just to use projectors and such. If it's just a simple cable though (like the one the iBook uses to connect to VGA), I'm all for it.

 

[iGav]

well a 800Mhz TiBook in't going to make me want to upgrade frm my 500Mhz one, I'm waiting for Apple to atleast double the speed before I consider buying a new one, but then again I'm not due to buy until the start of next year...... 😀

I'm reckon what dukestreet said at the top of the page is probably pretty accurate......

800Mhz really isn't much of an increase, there are many other features Apple could install to really increase performance....... they're just biding there time that's all!!

 

[mcrain]

Anyone know how long a submitted news story takes to get put on this site? I submitted this morning a story germaine to this thread...

 

[Backtothemac]

Hey cmoney.
Quick question. A dual G4 1GHZ with the Titanium GeForce 4 Ti is 3249.00

Here are some specs for a Dell.

Dell Dimension 8200 Series:   Dimension® 8200 Series, Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.4GHz w/ 512K L2  
Memory:   512MB PC800 RDRAM  
Keyboard:   Dell® Enhanced Performance USB Keyboard  
Monitors:   Video Ready w/o Monitor  
Video Card:   New 128MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce4™ Ti 4600 Graphics Card
Hard Drive:   80GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive  
Floppy Drive:   3.5 in Floppy Drive  
Operating System:   Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition  
Network Card:   10/100 PCI Fast Ethernet NIC  
Modem:   56K Telephony Modem for Windows® XP  
DVD-ROM or CD-ROM Drive:   New DVD+RW/ CD-RW Combo Drive  
Sound Card:   SB Live! Digital Sound Card  
Speakers:   Harman Kardon HK-395 Speakers
Bundled Software:   Microsoft® Works Suite 2002 with Money 2002 Standard  
Digital Music:   Dell Jukebox powered by MusicMatch   J
Digital Photography:   Dell Picture Studio,Image Expert 2000 Standard Edition  
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options:   1Yr Ltd. Warranty- 1Yr At-Home Service + 1Yr Phone Support  
Dual Monitor Support:   DVI-VGA Adapter to connect 2 CRT Monitors to 128 GeForce4 Ti4600 Video Card  

The Price on the Dell..... 2,308.00
Now, remember, no iMovie, or iDVD, or iPhoto, or iTunes. Also keep in mind that it runs Windoze. Also no gigabit ethernet. Slow a$$ PCI slots. X86 architecture. Also, 2308 for the Dell and 3249 for the Mac. Well, I got a degree in Political Science not math, but how would you buy 2 or 3 of the Dells for the price of the Mac?

Nuff said.

 

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by mcrain
Anyone know how long a submitted news story takes to get put on this site? I submitted this morning a story germaine to this thread...

Well, don't tease. What was it about? 😛

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by mcrain
Anyone know how long a submitted news story takes to get put on this site? I submitted this morning a story germaine to this thread...

Sometimes you'll never see it. Depends on whether the moderators think its worthy. If you really want something posted, your best bet is to just start a new thread in the catagory underwhich you think it belongs, it'll get some action (posts). Even then it could be upgraded to an article for the main page, its happened to me several times.

Go and post it here or start another thread, but link it via a post on this thread so we know where it is.

 

[mcrain]

Originally posted by Backtothemac


Well, don't tease. What was it about? 😛

Sorry, I'll start a new thread... GIve me just a sec.

(edit)

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/4171/

 

[arn]

Originally posted by mcrain
Anyone know how long a submitted news story takes to get put on this site? I submitted this morning a story germaine to this thread...

The time for a submission posting is variable... depends on when we can check it.

arn

 

[cmoney]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Hey cmoney.
Quick question. A dual G4 1GHZ with the Titanium GeForce 4 Ti is 3249.00

Here are some specs for a Dell.

Dell Dimension 8200 Series:   Dimension® 8200 Series, Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.4GHz w/ 512K L2  
Memory:   512MB PC800 RDRAM  
Keyboard:   Dell® Enhanced Performance USB Keyboard  
Monitors:   Video Ready w/o Monitor  
Video Card:   New 128MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce4™ Ti 4600 Graphics Card
Hard Drive:   80GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive  
Floppy Drive:   3.5 in Floppy Drive  
Operating System:   Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition  
Network Card:   10/100 PCI Fast Ethernet NIC  
Modem:   56K Telephony Modem for Windows® XP  
DVD-ROM or CD-ROM Drive:   New DVD+RW/ CD-RW Combo Drive  
Sound Card:   SB Live! Digital Sound Card  
Speakers:   Harman Kardon HK-395 Speakers
Bundled Software:   Microsoft® Works Suite 2002 with Money 2002 Standard  
Digital Music:   Dell Jukebox powered by MusicMatch   J
Digital Photography:   Dell Picture Studio,Image Expert 2000 Standard Edition  
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options:   1Yr Ltd. Warranty- 1Yr At-Home Service + 1Yr Phone Support  
Dual Monitor Support:   DVI-VGA Adapter to connect 2 CRT Monitors to 128 GeForce4 Ti4600 Video Card  

The Price on the Dell..... 2,308.00
Now, remember, no iMovie, or iDVD, or iPhoto, or iTunes. Also keep in mind that it runs Windoze. Also no gigabit ethernet. Slow a$$ PCI slots. X86 architecture. Also, 2308 for the Dell and 3249 for the Mac. Well, I got a degree in Political Science not math, but how would you buy 2 or 3 of the Dells for the price of the Mac?

Nuff said.

Well let's see. I would like to equip 3 of my employees with a PC. One does mostly Photoshop work. One does mostly Flash work. One does mostly Java servlet work.

Dell Dimension 4400 P4 1.6GHz, 128MB DDR Ram, 20 GB HD, 24x CDRW, 16MB ATI video card. $511 if I buy today. $599-$649 if I wait. Upgrade ram to 512MB and add ethernet card. Total: $730. Extra video card, say an ATI Radeon 7500 with 64MB ram, $139.

Total: $869 X 3 = $2607. Now I have 3 decent computers which allow 3 employees to get their work done.

Same config for a PowerMac: $1749 ($1599+$150 for 512MB Ram). I'll throw you a bone and upgrade the Dell hard drive to 40GB to match the Mac so add $120 for the three Dell computers.

Dell total: $2727
Apple total: $5247

Slow a$$ PCI slots. Yeah because there are so many PCI cards that use the 64bit slots in PowerMacs.

Gigabit ethernet? I can't afford a Gigabit ethernet switch so I can't use it anyway. But if I bought the Dells, perhaps I could.

X86 architecture is irrelevant if it doesn't hinder me from doing work.

I'd have a hard time arguing that the Macs are worth the extra $2500 for the work we do. There are no Mac-only apps in web application development which would sell the Macs. And having apps like Toad running on the PCs sells them for that. And don't forget, the Dells have 1 year ONSITE warranty.

iMacs aren't an option since they limit screen resolution.

BTW, back to my original point, if you notice, the Dell total for 3 computers is $2727. That's 3 computers for the price of one top of the line PowerMac. They're not the top of the line Dells, but then I never claimed them to be.

 

[PatrickStarfish]

I'll take mine with DVD please! SUPERDRIVE that is.

If Apple make the jump to SuperDrive, my decision is easy. No more desktop/tower for me. I know all the arguments against it in the PB, but the SuperDrive is a key piece of hardware when it comes to the overall Apple stategy. Yes, the PW would have to be thicker and a little heavier, but it could use more rigidity. My brother has a TiPB and he has problems all the time with it crashing and not booting because its too flexible and thin on its base. Anyway, this would make the PB the perfect computer, granted no expansion though. If they don't add the SuperDrive, then maybe I'll get one of these:
http://www.theapplecollection.com/g...p/large_2001a/SpongeMacRippedPants1600x12.jpg

sbsp

 

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by cmoney

Well let's see. I would like to equip 3 of my employees with a PC. One does mostly Photoshop work. One does mostly Flash work. One does mostly Java servlet work.
Dell Dimension 4400 P4 1.6GHz, 128MB DDR Ram, 20 GB HD, 24x CDRW, 16MB ATI video card. $511 if I buy today. $599-$649 if I wait. Upgrade ram to 512MB and add ethernet card. Total: $730. Extra video card, say an ATI Radeon 7500 with 64MB ram, $139.
Total: $869 X 3 = $2607. Now I have 3 decent computers which allow 3 employees to get their work done.
Same config for a PowerMac: $1749 ($1599+$150 for 512MB Ram). I'll throw you a bone and upgrade the Dell hard drive to 40GB to match the Mac so add $120 for the three Dell computers.
Dell total: $2727
Apple total: $5247

Um, I will focus only on the totally insane. I will not get into the PCI slots, gigabit, or the X86 $hittechture.

Don't know where you get your math, but the dell that you are looking at as quoted below....
Dell Dimension 4400: Pentium® 4 Processor at 1.6 GHz  
Memory:   512MB DDR SDRAM  
Keyboard:   Dell® Enhanced Performance USB Keyboard  
Monitors:   Video Ready w/o Monitor  
Video Cards:   64MB NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 4X AGP Graphics Card with TV-Out  
Hard Drive:   40GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive  
Floppy Drive:   3.5 in Floppy Drive  
Operating System:   Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Mouse:   Logitech® Optical USB Mouse  
Network Card:   10/100 PCI Fast Ethernet NIC  
Modem:   56K PCI Data Fax Modem for Windows
CD or DVD Drive:   48x Max Variable CD-ROM  
Sound Card:   Integrated Audio  
Speakers:   New Harman Kardon® HK-206 Speakers
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options:   1Yr Ltd. Warranty- 1Yr At-Home Service + 1Yr Phone Support  
Secondary CD or DVD Drive:   24x/10x/40x CD-RW

According to Dell this beast of a system is 909.00 + 100 dollars shipping = 1009.00. Now if you really want to compair Apples and Oranges, upgrade that piece to Win XP Pro which would make it 1109.00. But we will just say 1009.00

Now PowerMac G4 is 1599 + the 150 for the ram to 512. Also, hey, the iMac is 1399! That would rock. I mean since you don't quote monitors in your Dells, just think. 300 bucks more than the hell, and you can have a kick A$$ iMac with a screen size = to a 17 inch CRT. Now that is a deal! Lets see three of the dells would be 3027. Three iMacs would be 4197. Don't know about everyone else, but I am going with the iMacs. Also the G4's would be 5247. Again, I would go with the Macs.

Oh, here is a little info for you too....

On average, the cost to develop and support Windows applications is 50% higher per dollar of revenue than the cost to develop for Macintosh.
(Software and Information Industry Association)
* Mac users are 50% more accurate and 44% more productive than Wintel users.
(A.D. Little  report)

Here is the link to the page...
http://www.13idol.com/mac/macfacts.html

The bottom line is that if you are a PC person, you will always use PC's, and if that works for you that is fine. I will continue to be productive on my Mac's and laugh at the stress that Windows causes in the lives of millions of people.

whawwaaaaaahahahahahahahhaa

 

[cmoney]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Now PowerMac G4 is 1599 + the 150 for the ram to 512. Also, hey, the iMac is 1399! That would rock. I mean since you don't quote monitors in your Dells, just think. 300 bucks more than the hell, and you can have a kick A$$ iMac with a screen size = to a 17 inch CRT. Now that is a deal! Lets see three of the dells would be 3027. Three iMacs would be 4197. Don't know about everyone else, but I am going with the iMacs. Also the G4's would be 5247. Again, I would go with the Macs.


Here is the link to the page...
http://www.13idol.com/mac/macfacts.html

The bottom line is that if you are a PC person, you will always use PC's, and if that works for you that is fine. I will continue to be productive on my Mac's and laugh at the stress that Windows causes in the lives of millions of people.

whawwaaaaaahahahahahahahhaa

iMac's not an option because of limited video resolution. 1024x768 is not usable for programming or photoshop or flash work. OS X makes it all worse. The Dells I priced had 2 video cards. Add in the price for 2 17" CRTs and now you have approximately the cost of a low end iMac but with 2x the screen resolution and it's faster to boot.

BTW the point is moot now since we just ordered the 3 Dells that I specced out. Price was $750/machine and that includes 1 year On Site warranty. We probably won't buy the second video card since we've got 21" monitors too.

And now we have enough money leftover to buy licenses for the software we'll need.

We wanna go Mac for the office, and two of us have Macs at home. But Macs just don't fit into the budget when the cheapest pro model is twice as expensive as a PC.

 

[PatrickStarfish]

DUDE!

Originally posted by cmoney


...BTW the point is moot now since we just ordered the 3 Dells that I specced out. Price was $750/machine and that includes 1 year On Site warranty. We probably won't buy the second video card since we've got 21" monitors too...

Dude, you're gettin a Dell...
Dude, you're gettin a Dell...
Dude, you're gettin a Dell...
Dude, you're gettin a Dell...
Dude, you're gettin a Dell...
Dude, there's crappy parts in your Dell...
Dude, the operating system crashing your Dell...
Dude, onsite support is here for the 50th time for your Dell...
Dude, there's no inovation in your Dell...
Dude, you're gettin a Dell.

 

[Vilacr]

I totally agree with you cmoney

For the price per feature you can't beat the price of the dells. The iapps are overrated...they do fine but there are better programs out there. Apple should give them away free since they charge through the nose for slower machines. With the extra money saved from buying a more up to date pc you can buy the extra software and still come out cheaper. Apple needs to give us up to date systems. The TiPb is behind and needs to catch up now.

 

[Backtothemac]

cmoney,
I don't know who you are talking to at Dell, but maybe they need to do a little research into their product.

Stand back everyone as I am about to yell.

YOU CAN'T ORDER A DELL WITH 2 VIDEO CARDS IN IT. Why, because they don't sell PCI video cards in their configurations, which means unless there is a new mobo that supports 2 AGP cards, so I hope that they are the liars here.

Also,
Sorry you don't see the benifit to uptime, and things like that. Also, when you get your dell, take it to a Mac store, and do a little photoshop bakeoff. You will regret your purchase big time. Sorry that you're getting a Hell, I mean Dell.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by cmoney
We wanna go Mac for the office, and two of us have Macs at home. But Macs just don't fit into the budget when the cheapest pro model is twice as expensive as a PC.

That's very short-sighted of you.
Come back in a year, when the warranty is up, and let us know how your budget is doing.

Macs last longer and hold their value better than PCs.

 

[Jookbox]

Originally posted by TyleRomeo
ok 800MHZ G4 with a 133 bus blows away a 1.7 P4

lol, were you born this ignorant or did it just come gradually?

... lol.

 

[drastik]

I'll say his about Dell

I live in Nashville, Dell is here out near the airport. This from a friends girlfriend who sells the infernal machines...

"Support for Dell after purchase is almost non-existent, onsite service has a radius to service centers issue. Everything is changing at Dell and we are gong to offer only packaged PCs soon, no built to order. People call me in sales everyday because they can't get through to tech support."

Later she told me about sending one family in Virgina five different PCs because the drive kept coming broken out of the box.