That is exactly how I see it. If they brought their desktop machines up to par...then the pro laptop needs to be brought up to par as well. The iMac is a consumer model, so we cannot use that for any indication of what will happen to the pro level laptops.
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New PowerBooks on Tuesday.
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That is exactly how I see it. If they brought their desktop machines up to par...then the pro laptop needs to be brought up to par as well. The iMac is a consumer model, so we cannot use that for any indication of what will happen to the pro level laptops.
Why is it I'm tempted to go through this thread and PM every idiot saying "oooh G5" with a big fat "I told you so" after the G4 Powerbooks come out? You guys are ridiculous pipe dreamers! Get a grip!
These are in line with Apple's price gouging with outdated speed G4 line-up (yes, G4!) released. Yes that's disappointing but hey, look around, reality is oft disappointing. If the 15 inch was the $2000 at 1.3 GHz I'd contemplate it but I doubt it, Apple likes it's 50% or greater profit margins and I'd bet the $1999 is the 12, the 15 will come in at an inflated $2499 or knowing Apple more (like $2699 which I'd estimate the cost of building one would be more like $1400, nice profit margin) and the top one probably the 17 whatever processor they'll give it.
These are in line with Apple's price gouging with outdated speed G4 line-up (yes, G4!) released. Yes that's disappointing but hey, look around, reality is oft disappointing. If the 15 inch was the $2000 at 1.3 GHz I'd contemplate it but I doubt it, Apple likes it's 50% or greater profit margins and I'd bet the $1999 is the 12, the 15 will come in at an inflated $2499 or knowing Apple more (like $2699 which I'd estimate the cost of building one would be more like $1400, nice profit margin) and the top one probably the 17 whatever processor they'll give it.
Ok, but then why is Steve giving the keynote. Upping the 15" to the new ddr architecture and giving it a 1.25 ghz G4 isn't worth more than 5 minutes. These upgrades aren't even worthy of the keynote. I don't mean to fan the flames, but circumstances suggest to me a larger event than that. I'm totally ready to be wrong, but I don't think I am.
dh
If the $1999 is for the 12", then it better have a G5 (which will not happen in the 12"). How else could they ask us to pay more...unless DVI and an L3 cache is added. Anyway, if the 15" pBook is $1999, I'm afraid that you might be right. The only thing that could be in our favor, the pipe-dreamers, is that the 970 is a cheaper processor than the G4 right?
12" is for portability.
The 12" is designed for people that want the Powerbook power but want portability. What surprises me is people actually complaining about the screen size for $1999... as laptops get smaller they get MORE expensive. Bigger isn't really always better, especially if you have to carry a laptop around with you all the time.
Personally I hope that if the 12" is updated the following changes are made:
* Widescreen. 768 down is fine but bump it up to 1152 horizontal at least.
* Made more light, my current laptop is a 3.1lb Sharp Model with a 12" screen. Every little pound makes a huge difference.
* L3 Cache.
* More effective cooling. Those who say it doesn't get hot are delusional.
The 12" is designed for people that want the Powerbook power but want portability. What surprises me is people actually complaining about the screen size for $1999... as laptops get smaller they get MORE expensive. Bigger isn't really always better, especially if you have to carry a laptop around with you all the time.
Personally I hope that if the 12" is updated the following changes are made:
* Widescreen. 768 down is fine but bump it up to 1152 horizontal at least.
* Made more light, my current laptop is a 3.1lb Sharp Model with a 12" screen. Every little pound makes a huge difference.
* L3 Cache.
* More effective cooling. Those who say it doesn't get hot are delusional.
G5...
I read somewhere that the problem with a G5 notebook was that the system controller got too hot. They said it had to wait for 90nm before it could be used.
Whether IBM could do that now, I do not know...
Do you think a 1GHz G5 would be faster than a 1GHz G4 ?
I read somewhere that the problem with a G5 notebook was that the system controller got too hot. They said it had to wait for 90nm before it could be used.
Whether IBM could do that now, I do not know...
Do you think a 1GHz G5 would be faster than a 1GHz G4 ?
And what evidence supports this? You think a G4 is that much less expensive than a G5? G5s at lower mhz (or ghz) are easy to come by. MOTO can barley make enough 7457s.... By law of supply and demand G5s are going to be less expensive, so therefore they create a larget profitmargin. As for the R&D of a G5 laptop, I think the cost would be minimal to impliment a G5.
If i get an I told you do Tuesday so be it. I'm not neccessarily saying OMG G5 tuesday. I'm saying that its not impossible, but very likely to implement the G5 in the current line up.
I still think Apple will go G4 one more round though.
Re: G5...
Not in 10.2.6 or 10.2.7...but maybe with Panther. Would you rather have a 1Ghz G4 that can't utilize DDR ram fully and has a FSB of 133mhz or would you rather have a G5 that can utilize DDR Ram, is 64-bit, and has a 400mhz FSB (guessing, not sure if it would be anywhere near the desktop FSB speeds)?
Not in 10.2.6 or 10.2.7...but maybe with Panther. Would you rather have a 1Ghz G4 that can't utilize DDR ram fully and has a FSB of 133mhz or would you rather have a G5 that can utilize DDR Ram, is 64-bit, and has a 400mhz FSB (guessing, not sure if it would be anywhere near the desktop FSB speeds)?
Re: G5...
Those challenges are easily met with a heat pipe style cooling over the controler. I do believe a G5 at 1ghz would be faster than a G4.
Those who think the powerbook 12" RAM celing is 640MB you are indeed wrong. 1152 is the celing. You can get a 1GB DDR SODIMM and it will work in the powerbook. Those are just damn expensive, but it is possible to have over a gig of RAM in the 12".
Don't believe me? Search google...
Those challenges are easily met with a heat pipe style cooling over the controler. I do believe a G5 at 1ghz would be faster than a G4.
Those who think the powerbook 12" RAM celing is 640MB you are indeed wrong. 1152 is the celing. You can get a 1GB DDR SODIMM and it will work in the powerbook. Those are just damn expensive, but it is possible to have over a gig of RAM in the 12".
Don't believe me? Search google...
Not to be negitive but did anyone see the cleance page for the Apple Store? There are 2 different 12" and 15" PowerBooks and only 1 17". This makes me belive that we will be seeing updates for those most likely. Also is $400 too much of an increase for the 12" if they upgread the hell out of it? If Apple doesn't get all there computers over 1GHz they would be stabbing themsleves in the foot. I have been under a consant battle since the G5 came out. PC people refuse to think Apple is better...You know how many times I have to hear "Mac is Crap" This is there (PC people) slogan. I know you all have heard the same type of things. Imagin what the Higher-ups at Apple must hear! I don't think we will see too much from the 17" but the 12" and 15"....Ohh yeah it's on baby...
coverage
Hi..I know you are looking for somebody with a coverage of the keynote... i will be there... I'm currently trying to set up something to have a live coverage.
In the meantime, I have posted pictures of what is currently happening in Paris. You can check them on http://www.apple-zone.com
Hi..I know you are looking for somebody with a coverage of the keynote... i will be there... I'm currently trying to set up something to have a live coverage.
In the meantime, I have posted pictures of what is currently happening in Paris. You can check them on http://www.apple-zone.com
well, well... details are very scarce indeed... but only just over a day now until we can all find out for sure.
i'm betting that it'll be either a 7457 (which i understand will be a great imporvement over the current 1GHz processor used in PowerBooks) or it could also be the G5. Apple has been especially tight lipped about the new PowerBooks this time round... so i think thats a definite sign that something good will happen with them. ThinkSecret had detailed specs of the new iMacs way before they came out, but virtually no one had any info on the PowerBooks. and to top that off, all of the G5 PowerBook speculation has been coming from individuals, like people here on MR, etc.
even though there's been heaps of speculation, i still don't really have any idea what's going to be happening.
i'm betting that it'll be either a 7457 (which i understand will be a great imporvement over the current 1GHz processor used in PowerBooks) or it could also be the G5. Apple has been especially tight lipped about the new PowerBooks this time round... so i think thats a definite sign that something good will happen with them. ThinkSecret had detailed specs of the new iMacs way before they came out, but virtually no one had any info on the PowerBooks. and to top that off, all of the G5 PowerBook speculation has been coming from individuals, like people here on MR, etc.
even though there's been heaps of speculation, i still don't really have any idea what's going to be happening.
Originally posted by cb911
well, well... details are very scarce indeed... but only just over a day now until we can all find out for sure.
i'm betting that it'll be either a 7457 (which i understand will be a great imporvement over the current 1GHz processor used in PowerBooks) or it could also be the G5. Apple has been especially tight lipped about the new PowerBooks this time round... so i think thats a definite sign that something good will happen with them. ThinkSecret had detailed specs of the new iMacs way before they came out, but virtually no one had any info on the PowerBooks. and to top that off, all of the G5 PowerBook speculation has been coming from individuals, like people here on MR, etc.
even though there's been heaps of speculation, i still don't really have any idea what's going to be happening.
I don't think anyone gives a rats ass about new iMacs..... ohh a speed bump for a computer that people mostly use for internet, light gaming and other small tasks. Apple is tight lipped about everything. They hate rumors, and rumor sites. The long wait and little information lead me to believe something big will happen. We all have to wait.
s10 revision updates G3 PMacs vs. G3 PBooks
I noticed you asked upstream how long was it after the G4 Tower was announced that the G3 (Pismo) Powerbooks were updated.
G4 PowerMac (PCI) - September 1st 1999
G4 Powerbook - January 9th 2001
So your answer is almost a year and a half between Powerbooks going G4 and the PowerMac going G4.
NOT that 16 months is the normal length of time to turn a chip around to be put into a laptop. To wit:
G3 PowerMac (beige) - November 11th 1997
G3 Powerbook (3400) - November 15th 1997
Four days, at least according to theapplemuseum.com.
Don't let this be any indicator as I'm sure Apple wants faster chips in the Powerbook like yesterday. This being said don't believe the fools here thinking the G5 will be a-comin', ain't happening, too much technology to figure out as of yet. Hopefully by beginning of year though so about six months between G5 PMac and G5 PB... or so we can only hope... knowing Apple though it could be longer sadly.
I noticed you asked upstream how long was it after the G4 Tower was announced that the G3 (Pismo) Powerbooks were updated.
G4 PowerMac (PCI) - September 1st 1999
G4 Powerbook - January 9th 2001
So your answer is almost a year and a half between Powerbooks going G4 and the PowerMac going G4.
NOT that 16 months is the normal length of time to turn a chip around to be put into a laptop. To wit:
G3 PowerMac (beige) - November 11th 1997
G3 Powerbook (3400) - November 15th 1997
Four days, at least according to theapplemuseum.com.
Don't let this be any indicator as I'm sure Apple wants faster chips in the Powerbook like yesterday. This being said don't believe the fools here thinking the G5 will be a-comin', ain't happening, too much technology to figure out as of yet. Hopefully by beginning of year though so about six months between G5 PMac and G5 PB... or so we can only hope... knowing Apple though it could be longer sadly.
observations and corrections...
As people have already pointed out many times in many threads, the two 2Ghz G5's combine to produce less heat (94 watts) than a single 3.2Ghz Pentium 4 (over 100 watts). Looking at the size of the heat sink has nothing to do the amount of heat dissipation required. Apple chose a huge heat sink to allow them to run the fans at low speed (or off) and thus have a quieter system. I know of no modern desktop PC that approaches the noise level of the G5.
(Some may claim otherwise, but if you put them side-by-side you'll notice the difference.)
Not very impressive since most people here are guessing that there will be a G4 in the new powerbooks. The reason has little-nothing to do with heat issues in the G5--as others have noted, IBM's own documentation shows the G5 can consumer less power than the G4 when clocked 1.1Ghz. It has everything to do with the existence of a new Motorola MPC7457. Simple logic is, if Motorola doesn't have a committed purchaser of this chip, why bother designing and producing it? And where can this chip be used besides a Powerbook?
(Some will claim that that would go into the iBook, but then you were left with what Apple would be doing with the new IBM G3 chips which clock in at 1Ghz.)
There is no such thing as a Pentium 4 centrino. The "Centrino" line uses the Pentium M, which runs at a much slower clockspeed than the Pentium 4M but outperforms it in almost every test due to the cache-starved situation that occurs in notebook PCs. This is probably why Intel calls the whole thing "Centrino"--to distract the consumer from the low Mhz without acknowledging any "Mhz-myth"
I believe the Pentium 4Ms are running at over 2Ghz which isn't that far below the speed of most Pentium 4's. And if you are really stupid, you can get notebooks running at over 3Ghz. Sure the CPU itself consumers over 100 watts, but whatever floats your boat.
In any case, unlike Intel notebooks, no special notebook versions of desktop chips need to be made in the G4 because the PowerPC uses a fraction of the power for the same performance. So such a design consideration doesn't apply.
While I'll agree that Motorola's yield problems have caused serious problems for Apple. Motorola and Apple are not finished and the G4 does not run hot.
The current G4's aren't even produced at 130nm yet! Comparatively, when the G3 went down to 130nm it ran into issues preventing it from clocking at 1Ghz (though rumor-mongers may say that this was deliberate) and the Apple probably won't introduce a G5 notebook until it is at 90nm. The CPU bandwidth issue you mention can be fixed in later iterations of the G4.
Plus, I don't see the iMac moving to the G5 anytime soon.
As people have already pointed out many times in many threads, the two 2Ghz G5's combine to produce less heat (94 watts) than a single 3.2Ghz Pentium 4 (over 100 watts). Looking at the size of the heat sink has nothing to do the amount of heat dissipation required. Apple chose a huge heat sink to allow them to run the fans at low speed (or off) and thus have a quieter system. I know of no modern desktop PC that approaches the noise level of the G5.
(Some may claim otherwise, but if you put them side-by-side you'll notice the difference.)
Not very impressive since most people here are guessing that there will be a G4 in the new powerbooks. The reason has little-nothing to do with heat issues in the G5--as others have noted, IBM's own documentation shows the G5 can consumer less power than the G4 when clocked 1.1Ghz. It has everything to do with the existence of a new Motorola MPC7457. Simple logic is, if Motorola doesn't have a committed purchaser of this chip, why bother designing and producing it? And where can this chip be used besides a Powerbook?
(Some will claim that that would go into the iBook, but then you were left with what Apple would be doing with the new IBM G3 chips which clock in at 1Ghz.)
There is no such thing as a Pentium 4 centrino. The "Centrino" line uses the Pentium M, which runs at a much slower clockspeed than the Pentium 4M but outperforms it in almost every test due to the cache-starved situation that occurs in notebook PCs. This is probably why Intel calls the whole thing "Centrino"--to distract the consumer from the low Mhz without acknowledging any "Mhz-myth"
I believe the Pentium 4Ms are running at over 2Ghz which isn't that far below the speed of most Pentium 4's. And if you are really stupid, you can get notebooks running at over 3Ghz. Sure the CPU itself consumers over 100 watts, but whatever floats your boat.
In any case, unlike Intel notebooks, no special notebook versions of desktop chips need to be made in the G4 because the PowerPC uses a fraction of the power for the same performance. So such a design consideration doesn't apply.
While I'll agree that Motorola's yield problems have caused serious problems for Apple. Motorola and Apple are not finished and the G4 does not run hot.
The current G4's aren't even produced at 130nm yet! Comparatively, when the G3 went down to 130nm it ran into issues preventing it from clocking at 1Ghz (though rumor-mongers may say that this was deliberate) and the Apple probably won't introduce a G5 notebook until it is at 90nm. The CPU bandwidth issue you mention can be fixed in later iterations of the G4.
Plus, I don't see the iMac moving to the G5 anytime soon.
but the fact that they upgraded the imacs (which have about the same upgrades, from 1ghz to 1.25 (7455)) this monday seems to show that if they were to just upgrade the new powerbook line to a 1.25ghz (or 1.33 with USB 2.0 and such), they would have done it this monday (or maybe tomorrow). If they are going to announce something in paris, I would expect it to be a G5. If not, then i'd think they wouldn't announce anything at the paris expo. It's either tomorrow we'll see the new powerbook line like last monday, or we'll see something good on tuesday.
That's my guess.
There's no way for steve jobs to say "now let's look at the new powerbooks!!! AND IT USES A G4!!!"
why would he want to do that at the expo?
Has he ever announced a hardware that used an older generation chip (except when it's a new line of hardware)? I'd say that's the reason why they didn't announce the new iMacs at the expo (since it's using a G4).
That's my guess.
There's no way for steve jobs to say "now let's look at the new powerbooks!!! AND IT USES A G4!!!"
why would he want to do that at the expo?
Has he ever announced a hardware that used an older generation chip (except when it's a new line of hardware)? I'd say that's the reason why they didn't announce the new iMacs at the expo (since it's using a G4).