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New PowerMac G5s and PowerBook HD at NAB?

wow

I really think this is right on page 2. 970MP - there were rumors about this, PCI-Express - the WIntel world has this since ages. 32GB Ram? Blue Ray?
If you think about what Apple could come up with, you would maybe say exactly the same. While some things could be true - hell, everything could be true - everyone could come up with such specs!
 
Some of the specs sound believable, but the inclusion of the blu-ray burner makes me very skeptical of the whole thing. This topic seems very much like last year's "tip" before WWDC from some French rumor site -- a lot of people were totally believing it and salivating over it, but it was nothing more than an ueber-geek's wish list. They predicted dual 3 GHz, PCI-Express, dual-layer DVD drives, etc. It was (obviously) completely bogus.

Anyway, here's why we won't see blu-ray drives:

-Blu-Ray themselves haven't finalized the standard...see recent articles about their thoughts on reaching a compromise format with HD-DVD.
-Apple hasn't even outfitted ANY Mac with a dual layer drive yet...and those are all over the place.
-People keep comparing blu-ray with the original superdrive...there's one important difference, people! When the superdrive came out, DVD players had been around for several years..there are no consumer blu-ray players out there! and no content!

Anyway, blu-ray by itself tells me that this is no more than another geek's wish list.
 
jakemikey said:
Anyway, blu-ray by itself tells me that this is no more than another geek's wish list.
Click to expand...

I think so too, BUT Phillips is supposed to be shipping a PC blu-ray burner by 2Q 2005. So it is possible. Unlikely, but possible _and_ Apple just joined Bluray...


"Pioneer Bows Blu-Ray Burner, Home Recorder

By Doug Olenick -- TWICE, 1/17/2005

Abstract: LAS VEGAS — Pioneer Electronics will ship a PC Blu-ray burner early in the second half of 2005 and follow that introduction with a home recorder at a later date. Andy Parsons, Pioneer's senior VP, business solutions, said Pioneer showed prototypes of both devices at CES. Pioneer did not set a price point for the PC drive, but Parson's hinted it would not be exorbitantly priced."
 
@ PPC970FX you build the Chips ???

You cant know how much power it will need ! But when you work for IBM than i will believe :D
 
NAB would be an odd place to announce the new PowerMac G5 3 GHz, but it would better soon than later. These G5s are getting old. Just think, we'll soon be able to see a Dual 2 GHz for $1999 :) (at the low-end).

Just give us a dual-layer DVD drive already. There's no content for BluRay (or HD-DVD for that matter) nor is it finalized, so it really isn't plausible for the next PM's to have BluRay support this early.

What I think would be nice for both consumers and pros is multiple kinds of tower sizes. Basically, you would have three different sizes of PowerMacs. One size would be small, maybe space for an extra or two, and include only 4 RAM slots instead of 8. I really doubt any non-pro requires that much RAM. The next size would cut back RAM slots as well, but you can add more drives and even another optical drive. And the final size would have all 8 RAM slots, extra drive space, and extra optical drive space. Some sort of size selection like that would be nice.

I really think Apple should sacrifice a few RAM slots for a few HD and/or optical slots. I'll assume there's a new motherboard design and hopefully case design with the next PowerMac G5 update. Maybe it'll finally get us the expandability the G4s had.
 
Looks like someone just did a round on the rumor boards, picked up some of the buzz words and most optimistic possibilities and created a set of made up (false) specifications. IMO, that's certainly true for this particular (rumored) 970MP Power Mac. If Apple is going to ship a dual-core, 3GHz 970MP Power Mac with PCI-Express and Blu-Ray disc burning at this year's NAB then you'd better hurry up and buy some Apple stock because a system like that would be a year or more ahead of anything else you could buy (as well as being the fastest PC you could find, by a significant margin).

We may very well see 970MP systems from Apple within the next three to six months, but they will most likely be closer to 2.5GHz than they will be to 3GHz. As for PCI-Express, yes, maybe but I'd expect that only for the graphics (PCI-Express in place of AGP, with PCI-X for the remainder of the internal expansion). Blu-Ray, however, is highly unlikely and that's what pretty much places this rumor in the completely unbelievable category.

However, the PowerBook HD may be a possibility. Didn't specifications for an HD (display) version of the PowerBook show up in Apple's own user manual for the current 17" PowerBook (i.e. they listed an "HD" resolution under the PowerBook specifications). Either that, or the photographs that were posted on the web from the claimed Apple manual were a hoax.
 
RAM cap at 8GB

The 64 bit architecture of the Power5 allows for a maximum of 8GB of RAM. The 4GB memory DIMMS, although they exist, would be pointless on the PowerMac for obvious reasons.

The G5 motherboard is a dual channel memory design, so DIMMs must be added in like pairs. (I.e: you'd have to add 2 x 4GB DIMMs at a time - bang goes USD $6000). You would be better buying 8 x 1024mb DIMMs, saving yourself about four and a half grand, totalling just over USD $1400, and still hitting your maximum RAM allocation.
 
Diatribe said:
Tiger will have a resolution-independent GUI. We had a thread about this some time ago and Apple said so at some conference available as a stream on their site.
Click to expand...

It is my understanding that Tiger will not offer a truly resolution-independent GUI. They are apparently offering some "hooks" that will make it easier for developers to support higher DPI displays, but it won't be a full blown, out-of-the-box, resolution-independent experience -- not by any stretch of the imagination.

More is expected in 10.5, but the exact level of support there is also subject to a wide degree of uncertainty.
 
decash said:
Yes, as are 2GB sticks. Crucial's take of the 4GB comes as its DDR PC2100 DIMM, 184 pin. But at USD $2999 a pop, it aint cheap!
Click to expand...

Can the Mac mini use those 2GB and 4GB sticks? Yes, it would be insane right now (for the price), but in about 5 years (when a 4GB stick costs 100$), it would be nice to put 2 or 4GB into a Mac mini...
 
32 Gigs of RAM....

32 Gigs of RAM would make a bitchin' RAM disk. I remember that was one of the hot features on my Amiga.

Frankly, hard drives are a slow point for computers. When we can start replacing disk access with solid-state (RAM) drives, life will be good. Now if the price to achieve this would just come down...
 
Do you know what NAB is?

NAB would be an odd place to announce the new PowerMac G5 3 GHz...

There's no content for BluRay...
Click to expand...

Do you know what NAB is?

NAB = National Association of Broadcasters. These are people who *create* content, not consume it. We're talking pro's, not college kids.

Broadcasters and videographers need BluRay far earlier in its lifecycle than consumers do, and would be willing to pay much more for it. The rumor didn't say the machine would be cheap. :p
 
G5 not limited to 8GB ram

decash said:
The 64 bit architecture of the Power5 allows for a maximum of 8GB of RAM. The 4GB memory DIMMS, although they exist, would be pointless on the PowerMac for obvious reasons.
.
Click to expand...

I think you meant G5 instead of Power5, since the Power5 isn't out yet (the PPC 970 chips in Apple's G5s are derivatives of the Power4).

Regarding the 8GB limit you stated: that is totally false. You can go buy a single processor Xserve from Apple, for example, and configure it with 16 GB of ram...are you saying Apple is selling ram in their own systems that can't be used?

The stated 8 GB limit that used to exist on Apple G5's was due simply to the fact that 2 GB DIMMs were not generally available. The address space of the PPC 970 is true 64 bit, but real physical addresses are limited to 42 bits, which is about 4 TB of physical ram.
 
Mac mini at 4GB ?

Yvan256 said:
Can the Mac mini use those 2GB and 4GB sticks? Yes, it would be insane right now (for the price), but in about 5 years (when a 4GB stick costs 100$), it would be nice to put 2 or 4GB into a Mac mini...
Click to expand...

The Mac minu uses the G4 processor, a 32 bit architecture. This means that you can address 232 'addresses', equalling 4 gigabytes of RAM. This is the upper limit for the G4, so compatability will depend on the physical properties of the memory module. (Pin count, type, et al).

The G5, as a 64 bit system, effectively doubles the memory limit, (8GB) and programs written to take advantage of the 64 bit architecture can address huge ammounts of memory.
 
fpnc said:
It is my understanding that Tiger will not offer a truly resolution-independent GUI. They are apparently offering some "hooks" that will make it easier for developers to support higher DPI displays, but it won't be a full blown, out-of-the-box, resolution-independent experience -- not by any stretch of the imagination.

More is expected in 10.5, but the exact level of support there is also subject to a wide degree of uncertainty.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree. The poster you reference was certainly confused. I believe 10.5 is the target date for a vector/3D based GUI. Resolution independant, in other words.

It will be nice when you can simply state you'd like 11 POINT text, and it will have the same relative size (but be more crisp) on a high resolution display. This will also mean that icons will be created in Vector or 3D formats. I'm sure bitmaps will just be scaled as needed, but it will look damn cool.
 
NO 8GB LIMIT

decash said:
The G5, as a 64 bit system, effectively doubles the memory limit, (8GB) and programs written to take advantage of the 64 bit architecture can address huge ammounts of memory.
Click to expand...

Please stop with this nonsense! 2 to the power 32 gives you 4 GB of RAM. 2 to the power 64 is not twice that! It is the square of that, in other words it is about 16 billion billion. I assume you failed 8th grade algebra.
 
Bummer.

quta said:
I think you meant G5 instead of Power5, since the Power5 isn't out yet (the PPC 970 chips in Apple's G5s are derivatives of the Power4).

Regarding the 8GB limit you stated: that is totally false. You can go buy a single processor Xserve from Apple, for example, and configure it with 16 GB of ram...are you saying Apple is selling ram in their own systems that can't be used?

The stated 8 GB limit that used to exist on Apple G5's was due simply to the fact that 2 GB DIMMs were not generally available. The address space of the PPC 970 is true 64 bit, but real physical addresses are limited to 42 bits, which is about 4 TB of physical ram.
Click to expand...

:eek:​

If this is the case, I stand humbly corrected and apologise for any confusion I've caused! I thought it followd logical convention that the 4GB upper limit of 32-bit systems would double to an 8GB limit of 64-bit.

Thanks for the pointer!
 
fpnc said:
However, the PowerBook HD may be a possibility. Didn't specifications for an HD (display) version of the PowerBook show up in Apple's own user manual for the current 17" PowerBook (i.e. they listed an "HD" resolution under the PowerBook specifications). Either that, or the photographs that were posted on the web from the claimed Apple manual were a hoax.
Click to expand...

Yes, they did. Don't know if it was ever determined to be a hoax, but the whole thing seems plausible. Wintel laptops have offered high resolutions for quite some time. Frankly, I'm surprised that Apple has waited this long to do the same.
 
decash said:
The Mac minu uses the G4 processor, a 32 bit architecture. This means that you can address 232 'addresses', equalling 4 gigabytes of RAM. This is the upper limit for the G4, so compatability will depend on the physical properties of the memory module. (Pin count, type, et al).

The G5, as a 64 bit system, effectively doubles the memory limit, (8GB) and programs written to take advantage of the 64 bit architecture can address huge ammounts of memory.
Click to expand...
Ok as you've already noted a 64 bit chip does not double the addressable memory. From IBM's own pages a 64 bit architecture can address 16 Exabytes or 2^42bits.
 
Nickygoat said:
Ok as you've already noted a 64 bit chip does not double the addressable memory. From IBM's own pages a 64 bit architecture can address 16 Exabytes or 2^42bits.
Click to expand...

Nitpicking here, but:
1. the number of addresses refers to the number BYTES, not bits.
2. address space is not the same as physical ram.
3. 16 Exabytes results from 64 bits of addressable space.
4. 2^42 is not 16 Exabytes, but rather 4 Terabytes. 4 Terabytes is the maximum amount of physical ram that could ever be used in any PPC 970 system. Virtual memory size could be much larger, up to 16 Exabytes.
 
As for Blu-Ray (not likely, I think), I'd much rather see support for the Mount Rainier CD-RW/DVD+RW hardware than Blu-Ray (although both, at a reasonable cost, would be even better). Mt. Rainier drives and software bring OS-supported, standards-based packet writing (similar) to rewritable CDs and DVDs. That means you can use rewritable CDs and DVDs much like you would a floppy disc, with incremental file additions and deletions. Note that this technology is not simple multi-session CD writing, it's much, much better than that.

Here is a good article on this technology, which (IMO) is sorely needed in next generation Macs.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,715714,00.asp

I believe that next year's release of Longhorn (next version of MS Windows) will include Mount Rainier support, so Apple needs to get this feature soon. There are also third-parties that offer Mt. Rainier drivers, but it really needs to be done at the core OS level because it's something that almost everyone would use (no more burning of a full CD just to backup a small number of files).
 
bikertwin said:
Do you know what NAB is?

NAB = National Association of Broadcasters. These are people who *create* content, not consume it. We're talking pro's, not college kids.

Broadcasters and videographers need BluRay far earlier in its lifecycle than consumers do, and would be willing to pay much more for it. The rumor didn't say the machine would be cheap. :p
Click to expand...


I don't know about the MP or PB rumour, but having seen that the a PC Blu-ray burner actually exists and is supposed to ship in the right time frame, and given your point as well, and given Apple's focus on this market, Steve's comments and the fact that they joined the association, I'm thinkin' the Blue-Ray rumour is more likely than not.

Cheers
 
quta said:
the Power5 isn't out yet
Click to expand...

It's out. It's been out for over 9 months, I believe, in many of IBM's servers. It can address quite a lot of RAM, but that was covered in other posts.

The 970mp is, as you correctly state, still Power4 derived since it is essentially a multi-core 970. The 980 (speculated name) and above will use Power5 core(s).
 
Crucial RAM

As the current Power Mac G5 motherboards use PC3200 DDR400 SDRAM, if you checked Crucial's web site, you'd find that the largest capacity modules you can order, in pairs for the G5, are 2GB, not 4GB. With 8 slots, that's 16GB. At $900 each that's still rather expensive. Just for comparison, the 1GB modules are $182 How much RAM do you really need?
 
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