New PowerMac G5s and PowerBook HD at NAB?

[Frobozz]

As for Blu-Ray (not likely, I think), I'd much rather see support for the Mount Rainier CD-RW/DVD+RW hardware than Blu-Ray (although both, at a reasonable cost, would be even better).

That does sound pretty cool. I'd like to see that make it's way to the Mac. As far as blu-ray goes, I agree it's a bit of a stretch for anything prior to mid/late may-- but both Pioneer and Panasonic said their blu-ray offerings would be available in summer of this year. I suppose Apple could put that as a BTO / early adopter option on it's high end Macs. I do concede it seems about 6 months early, though.

Then again, most tipsters have heard their information from a third party within Apple. Unless they are very influential in the company, they probably hear the various configurations which MAY make it to market. I wouldn't be suprised to see most of these things happen. The 970mp is a given and doesn't seem ahead of it's time. Blu-ray does.

 

[Frobozz]

As the current Power Mac G5 motherboards use PC3200 DDR400 SDRAM, if you checked Crucial's web site, you'd find that the largest capacity modules you can order, in pairs for the G5, are 2GB, not 4GB. With 8 slots, that's 16GB. At $900 each that's still rather expensive. Just for comparison, the 1GB modules are $182 How much RAM do you really need?

RAM drives, baby. RAM drives!

 

[rendezvouscp]

I remember reading about Mt. Rainier some three years ago in MacAddict. Has it really taken this long to implement in Windows, and was it at all supposed to be a standard? I thought it was a Microsoft conceived, Microsoft only idea.
-Chase

 

[lem0nayde]

It seems to me that the expense of including Blu-Ray this early in the game would be prohibitive. Those drives are going to be really pricey when they roll out in late 2005. With big question mark over the outcome of the war between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, it strikes me as premature for Apple to have backed Blu-Ray let alone start rolling it out into products.

 

[Diatribe]

It is my understanding that Tiger will not offer a truly resolution-independent GUI. They are apparently offering some "hooks" that will make it easier for developers to support higher DPI displays, but it won't be a full blown, out-of-the-box, resolution-independent experience -- not by any stretch of the imagination.

More is expected in 10.5, but the exact level of support there is also subject to a wide degree of uncertainty.

Where do you get your information from? Links? I got one and you?

Yes I agree. The poster you reference was certainly confused. I believe 10.5 is the target date for a vector/3D based GUI. Resolution independant, in other words.

Confused, eh?
It's the 10th and 11th post.

Geeez how I love people with superficial knowledge...

 

[wdlove]

dual 3GHz ...it's about time! And this is just a rumor. I'll wait and see.

This is awesome news. Great to finally be getting some rumors on a new Power Mac. Maybe this will be my new machine.

 

[bankshot]

I don't know about this specific rumor's credibility, but regardless, it seems pretty clear that a dual-core G5 is coming down the pike eventually. Did anyone notice that this rumor, as stated, makes no mention of how many CPUs are in the supposed Power Mac configurations? I think all along everyone's been assuming at least the high end machines would have 2 physical processors, giving an effective total of 4 CPUs, but will they? I could see Apple dropping the second processor because they'll all be effectively dual CPU anyway.

The thought of a 4-CPU model sure is tantalizing, though. We use a scientific analysis package at work that's licensed based on each unique combination of user/machine that's using it. Licenses are checked out from a network server, and if all the licenses in the pool are used up, you have to wait until someone else quits. The nice thing is that I can run the application as many times as I want as long as I stay on the same user account same machine. Run as two different users on the same machine, it counts as 2 licenses checked out. Or run as the same user on 2 different machines, same thing.

That's one of many nice things about our dual 2 GHz G5 - I can run 2 instances of the application in parallel and crunch through data twice as fast while only using one license. If a dual CPU, dual core machine comes out, we would seriously consider getting one, as that would allow us to run 4 instances in parallel using only once license.

Gotta wonder what the chances are that Apple will do dual-dual , or single-dual .

 

[macmunch]

Ok its true ...

i Have it

its a german article ...
http://www.computerwoche.de/index.c...802&category=8&faction=insert&ForumTreeview=0
... but it discribes what Hypertransport 2.0 can do:

It supports a connection to PCI-Express and is full PCI Express compatible.
Also it rises the Dataflow to a maximum of 22,4 GB/s instead of 12,4 now.
Maximum clockspeed is 1,4 GHz

So if the new PowerMac has HT 2.0 than it will likely have PCI-E so the rumor could really be true ... And the amount on RAM would also help.

So I think we really could see such PowerMacs

 

[drewyboy]

It seems to me that the expense of including Blu-Ray this early in the game would be prohibitive. Those drives are going to be really pricey when they roll out in late 2005. With big question mark over the outcome of the war between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, it strikes me as premature for Apple to have backed Blu-Ray let alone start rolling it out into products.

Just think about it this way... Apple NEEDS to start being ahead of the PC market so they need to take a gamble and if they seriously push this early, the war will already be won due to everyone being put into submission of teh Blu-Ray. If all major NAB consumers get it, and you have a few major electronics companies already saying they'll push it in home theater, it would be a huge win for Apple. They just need to push it hard enough to have it be the "norm".

 

[jakemikey]

Just think about it this way... Apple NEEDS to start being ahead of the PC market so they need to take a gamble and if they seriously push this early, the war will already be won due to everyone being put into submission of teh Blu-Ray. If all major NAB consumers get it, and you have a few major electronics companies already saying they'll push it in home theater, it would be a huge win for Apple. They just need to push it hard enough to have it be the "norm".

Even for content creators (people at NAB) blu-ray is premature.

http://www.pcworld.com/resource/article/0,aid,120161,pg,1,RSS,RSS,00.asp

If the president of Sony himself still isn't sure about the future of the format (ie whether or not they will integrate with HD-DVD), there is no way, NO way Apple will mysteriously slip blu-ray drives into PMs which will supposedly appear in two weeks. In 5-6 months the landscape will be totally different, but not in two weeks.

And it'll be years before we see them in other macs, I mean think about it, how many people have an actual HDTV? Then you need a player (non-existent right now). Then you need blank media, then you need it cheap. I think of all those, the HDTV part is the biggest hurdle. The cheapest HDTVs out there are $600+ and those are tubes, not flatscreens. Basically to make use of blu-ray, Joe Blows would have to toss out their current TV/DVD combo and start over -- and that'll take time. But I digress...

 

[mangoarts]

BLUE_RAY_AT_NAB

Sounds nice escpcaly(sp) with the blu-ray (are they even shiping blu-ray yet?) but i wonder how accurate the person is but that would be sweet. I love having Dentist appts during school so i can see this site.

Philips Electronics, a world leader in optical storage and a founding member of the Blu-ray Disc Association, will be revealing its prototype all-in-one PC writer that reads and writes CD, DVD and Blu-ray Discs. The demonstration will be held on the Philips booth #9004 at the CES 2005 exhibition. The introduction of this unique all-in-one PC writer is scheduled for the second half of 2005.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

CHIBA, JAPAN -- Two companies supporting the Blu-ray Disc optical disc format unveiled prototype players at the Ceatec 2004 exhibition, taking place here this week.
Advertisement

Among the prototypes was the first Blu-ray Disc drive intended for personal computer use.

The drive is from Pioneer and uses a recently developed system that combines a signal processor and control circuitry for a blue laser and red laser in a single chip. The blue laser is used for Blu-ray Disc and the red laser is used in DVDs, meaning the new drive supports both disc formats. Until now most prototypes made use of multiple chips to accomplish the same task.

 

[amphibious]

I have two laptops one with a 15.4" screen at 1920x1200 (HP R3000) and one with a 10.6" screen at 1280x768 (Fujitsu P7010).

I consider these resolutions quite comfortable from a working distance with or without glasses. Granted, I can't see the screen at all from about four feet away with my glasses off.

This is about 21,611 pixels per square inch with the 1920x1200 screen and about 19,843 pixels per square inch with the 1280x768 screen.

The current 12.1" PowerBook at 1024x768 is about 11,190 pixels per square inch... I think the 12.1" iBook could easily do 1440x1080 (about 22129 pixels per square inch).

In fact, if a 12.1" 1440x1080 PowerBook came out I would buy one immediately.

 

[LimeiBook86]

If this is true......this would make a killer machine to take the place of my Dad's G4 450 AGP....oh yes, come on Apple. You know what we like

 

[micw]

While G5 PowerBooks are not expected, a higher resolution "PowerBook HD" is expected to be debuted at NAB as well. The new model is expected to simply boost the resoluation of the current 17" PowerBook and offer the ATI Mobility Radeon 9800.

There must be some truth to this. I bought a new 17" PB two weeks ago and in the manual that came with it, one can read about a 17" version with higher resolution. At first I thought that they were refering to the upcoming G5 PBs. But efter reading this rumor it all make sense. I presume that Apple want to ship the 17" HD when 10.4 is available.
Now, my new sweet PB got stolen a week ago and this will give me the opportunity to upgrade then my insurance company are done doing their stuff

 

[jwdawso]

It seems to me that the expense of including Blu-Ray this early in the game would be prohibitive. Those drives are going to be really pricey when they roll out in late 2005. With big question mark over the outcome of the war between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, it strikes me as premature for Apple to have backed Blu-Ray let alone start rolling it out into products.

Keep in mind that the Blu-Ray drive can be a CTO. So if it's in the $1k range, it won't raise the base price. Hopefully dual-layer drives will be standard.

 

[jakemikey]

Philips Electronics, a world leader in optical storage and a founding member of the Blu-ray Disc Association, will be revealing its prototype all-in-one PC writer that reads and writes CD, DVD and Blu-ray Discs. The demonstration will be held on the Philips booth #9004 at the CES 2005 exhibition. The introduction of this unique all-in-one PC writer is scheduled for the second half of 2005.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

CHIBA, JAPAN -- Two companies supporting the Blu-ray Disc optical disc format unveiled prototype players at the Ceatec 2004 exhibition, taking place here this week.
Advertisement

Among the prototypes was the first Blu-ray Disc drive intended for personal computer use.

The drive is from Pioneer and uses a recently developed system that combines a signal processor and control circuitry for a blue laser and red laser in a single chip. The blue laser is used for Blu-ray Disc and the red laser is used in DVDs, meaning the new drive supports both disc formats. Until now most prototypes made use of multiple chips to accomplish the same task.

There's a big difference between a prototype and a shipping model. Of course blu-ray drives exist, just like 65nm chips exist, that doesn't mean they'll be shipping in the very near future. Will blu-rayish drives be showcased at NAB? Probably. Will blu-ray drives ship in PMs at NAB? No.

A lot of political things will have to be ironed out before any large PC maker (like Apple) ships blu-ray equipped computers en masse. It's kinda like all those wireless protocols out there that haven't been ratified. Some manfacturers jump the gun and make products based on those protocols, but in general most wait until the standard has been finalized and ratified so they can avoid compatibility issues. Likewise I would expect small-time computer makers to adopt a pre-blu-ray drive soon so they can "be the first", only to have the rug pulled out from underneath them when blu-ray merges with HD-DVD and their drive isn't supported.

 

[eXan]

Sounds a little too good to be true to me...

Exactly my thoughts. 32 GB of RAM? I doubt it. Imagine what it will cost if 8 GB is 8000$

 

[pigwin32]

32 Gigs of RAM would make a bitchin' RAM disk. I remember that was one of the hot features on my Amiga.

Far out, I knew Amiga's were advanced but a 32GB RAM disk, that must have been very expensive back in the late '80s. Plus what kind of barn did you need for all the aircon/power conditioning/etc. Got any pictures?

 

[mangoarts]

There's a big difference between a prototype and a shipping model. Of course blu-ray drives exist, just like 65nm chips exist, that doesn't mean they'll be shipping in the very near future. Will blu-rayish drives be showcased at NAB? Probably. Will blu-ray drives ship in PMs at NAB? No.

A lot of political things will have to be ironed out before any large PC maker (like Apple) ships blu-ray equipped computers en masse. It's kinda like all those wireless protocols out there that haven't been ratified. Some manfacturers jump the gun and make products based on those protocols, but in general most wait until the standard has been finalized and ratified so they can avoid compatibility issues. Likewise I would expect small-time computer makers to adopt a pre-blu-ray drive soon so they can "be the first", only to have the rug pulled out from underneath them when blu-ray merges with HD-DVD and their drive isn't supported.

I agree that this is a stretch but to go from a working protoype to shipping six months later does not seem that impossible. I'd be glad to drop 10K on a Mac that would have all the listed items. It seems though the truth will not match this rumor.

What about PRO VIDEO CARDS???? FIRE GL OR NVIDIA 4000. With all that Apple is doing in OPEN GL and Shake, Motion, Core Video....etc. Where are those cards to run real-time preview.

 

[mark6051]

No Blue Ray

I doubt Blue Ray will be put into a mac until the format storm subsides between Blue Ray and HD-DVD...Even though Apple has thrown its weight behind Blue-Ray, Sony has now commented quite publicly its looking for middle ground between the two different formats to avoid consumer disappointment and confusion.

I can't see Apple adding Blue Ray to its computers and then a generation or two later adding another/different drive format..especially also since Apple and Sony have been noted as working closely together...This was from both Jobs and Sony CEO in recent comments in publications and at Macworld recently.

 

[Frobozz]

Geeez how I love people with superficial knowledge...

*ahem*

I think the most important note is about 28 minutes in. And yes, I've seen the video. Also, the video stuff in at about 39 minutes is incredible.

I highly suggest you read this Developer Document, or at least breeze through it to understand my point, because I think you missed it:

http://developer.apple.com/document.../QuickDrawToQuartz2D/tq_models/tq_models.html

They are talking about resolution independant capabilities in 10.4, and how developers are going to start developing their UI's to be this way. There's a MASSIVE difference between the capability and the practice. You're not going to be able to scale 10.4's UI. Maybe in some point revision but most likely it won't be a feature of the Operating System until 10.5. In fact, I have heard many times that 10.5 will be when the acual OS is drawn resolution indepedant out of the box. I suppose an individual application could have a resolution independant UI before the OS does, but that's highly unlikely because the OS's features will drive application features (not the other way around.)

It's a great demo, though. I'm glad they made this stuff public.

 

[Frobozz]

Far out, I knew Amiga's were advanced but a 32GB RAM disk, that must have been very expensive back in the late '80s. Plus what kind of barn did you need for all the aircon/power conditioning/etc. Got any pictures?

LOL.

Yeah, I think my RAM disk was 512k or maybe up to 2megs. But since the entire OS fit onto a low density floppy that was a hell of a lot!

My god I can't imagine how much 32 gigs of RAM would have cost back then. to give you an idea, In 1987 or 1988 I bought a 16 meg SIMM module for a Mac IIcx for $1,600. Worth every penny.

 

[Frobozz]

So if the new PowerMac has HT 2.0 than it will likely have PCI-E so the rumor could really be true ... And the amount on RAM would also help.

So I think we really could see such PowerMacs

Agreed. Without a doubt the most important features of the rumored new Macs are HyperTransport 2.0 and PCI-Express graphics.

I am seriously drooling about the thought of a dual core 3.0 GHz G5 with HT2, PCI-E, and all the goodies coming with Tiger.... mmmmm....

 

[fpnc]

Diatribe, the link you provided to the WWDC session doesn't prove your claim that Tiger will provide a fully resolution-independent GUI. It only demonstrates GUI scaling through some enhancements in Tiger's application framework. The presenter also says, "What we're talking about this year at WWDC is getting ready for resolution independence in the user interface in the toolkit." Note the term "getting ready" which was possibly meant to convey that Tiger is only the first step in the process of reaching a fully resolution-independent GUI. He also says that there is a lot of work yet to do (again, possibly indicating that Tiger is only the first, partial step in the process). It is certainly conceivable, however, that these WWDC comments represent something different from what I'm interpreting, but even that would just be another point of view and not certain fact. So, on that basis alone we'd probably have to describe these WWDC comments as somewhat vague.

However, prior to the demos they refer to the each of these new Tiger methods as "scaling" which is not really the same as a resolution-independent GUI. If you actually saw the results from this scaling you'd immediately notice that something is not right, because most of the user interface elements are simply redrawn as zoomed (magnified or scaled) bitmaps and thus they appear rough and stair-stepped. However, the text is redrawn with a larger point-size outline and thus it remains relatively smooth.

In some respects, Tiger may only be a test-case so that application developers can start to remove resolution-dependences from their code base. But, from a purely technical perspective, Tiger does not appear to implement a resolution-independent GUI.

I suspect that we might see some limited use of Tiger's GUI scaling, but IMO there will still be a long way to go before OS X is able to support a fully resolution-independent user experience.

Where do you get your information from? Links? I got one and you?

Confused, eh?
It's the 10th and 11th post.

Geeez how I love people with superficial knowledge...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/111249/[/URL

 

[Diatribe]

*ahem*

I think the most important note is about 28 minutes in. And yes, I've seen the video. Also, the video stuff in at about 39 minutes is incredible.

I highly suggest you read this Developer Document, or at least breeze through it to understand my point, because I think you missed it:

http://developer.apple.com/document.../QuickDrawToQuartz2D/tq_models/tq_models.html

They are talking about resolution independant capabilities in 10.4, and how developers are going to start developing their UI's to be this way. There's a MASSIVE difference between the capability and the practice. You're not going to be able to scale 10.4's UI. Maybe in some point revision but most likely it won't be a feature of the Operating System until 10.5. In fact, I have heard many times that 10.5 will be when the acual OS is drawn resolution indepedant out of the box. I suppose an individual application could have a resolution independant UI before the OS does, but that's highly unlikely because the OS's features will drive application features (not the other way around.)

It's a great demo, though. I'm glad they made this stuff public.

Thanks for the document, hadn't read that yet. From the video it sounded more like it, from this document it clearly states that only Quartz 2D is resolution independent. Though this means that everything rendered with Quartz 2D even by the OS would be resolution independent, or am I missing something here?
Which parts are not rendered with Quartz 2D in OSX?
I guess you might be right with the fully, out of the box comment for 10.5 but if Quartz 2D is already resolution independent that's a big chunk.

Sorry for the superficial comment, it seems like I was the one missing something.