New PowerMac Model?

[Dont Hurt Me]

It might be signifying "the end" to Motorola.

"See ya, Moto. Don't let the door hit your slow-moving processor on the way out!"

lets hope so, it would sure be nice for Apple if they had a Cpu that could perform in the same league as the evil side.

 

[dontmatter]

Thanks!!

Here is my translation for you:

The update 10.3.3 also contained an unrecognized 'code' as here: Power Mac 7.3. No machine yet released form Apple has carried this code name designation. In fact, the current series of powermacs (G5s) have the code name Powermac 7.2. You need to know that the Powermac G4s had the code name Powermac 3.x, the Cubes Powermac 5.1 and the iMac TFT and emacs each had the names Powermac 4.x and 6.x respectively... the complete list of code names can be found here: http://www.theapplemuseum.com/index.php?id=tam&page=products&subpage=newworld

However, if you look a little closer at the 10.3.4 update, you will notice that mention of a Powermac 8.1 is made, which makes you think that it is not just a minor update but a completely new machine.

You will also find a reference to SMU_Neo2 which might also make you think that the Neo2 would be a new version of the processor. What is certain is that Neo2 would be a derivative of the current G5. But it is still difficult to confirm whether it is a stripped- down version (like the 970fx of the X-Serves) or, BOOSTED!
If you would like to know more, do the 10.3.4 update, open this file:
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMacRISC4PE.kext/
Contents/info.plist
and search for "8.1".

I shall leave you to dream... (for me the 8.1 is an iMac G5 of new design, to be announced/released ?? at the end of June. As for the 7.3, that will be a Powermac G5 update, on the same date. END of translation.

hope this helps. hope it's true.

 

[nuckinfutz]

There is no need to be unduly pessimistic. The ones ranting and raving after shows are the ones with the most unrealistic desires.

Dual 3Ghz is going to be possible. At $3000? Probably not. However one has to look at the Athlon 64 right now announced today at Computex. 2.4Ghz on the high end for a 130nm part.

IBM should definitely be able to hit at the least 2.6 on a 90nm 970FX.

This thread alone shows that code in OSX portends a new model with architectural changes. Could be an iMac with a G5 or a new Powermac G5. Both significant nontheless.

Apple basically skipped a revision so a large jump is necessary. I wouldn't be suprised to see fairly quick availability of the new models.

Tiger is going to be an exciting thing to behold. My guess is Tiger is the culmination of 2 years of work from the Tiger team. It will lay the groundworkd for the next 2-3 years. It's important to say the least.

We'll all be grinning from ear to ear after WWDC.

 

[BornAgainMac]

Oh wow!! If you look carefully at the pictures on this page:

http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/index.html

you will see a G5 poster in the background!

WE'RE GETTING G5 MACS!!! The day has finally arrived!!!

I can't believe it.

If you look even closer, you will see someone with a powerbook backpack and the expression from the face of the person he is talking to.... WE'RE GETTING G5 Powerbooks!!! LOL

 

[BornAgainMac]

that is the law of diminishing returns - duals will NEVER add a 100% boost compared to a single cpu (of same speed). that is as impossible as travelling faster than the speed of light. there is always a performance hit when more than one cpu is used simultaneously.

if dual gives a 50% boost, one could assume that the third cpu would add about 33% to it and the fourth some 25%, so in the end, the quad shoud show a +150% speed boost compared to single cpu (of the same speed) in real life.

That is more true in the Windows environment. I think Virginia Tech showed the world that Mac's scale better.

 

[jmustretch]

end of the powermac

anyone think that this means the end of the power mac line.
there have been no revisions to the g5 in months…
if the imac g5 is released this would bring the imac to the same level as the power mac but at a lower price point (even more so if apple keeps the all-in-one desing)
what I think we may see… a stand alone imac with a bit more expandability (meaning more ram, maybe a few PCI slots) with a G5 processor.
No Power Mac updates.

 

[leo]

Apple basically skipped a revision so a large jump is necessary.

This does not apply to the processors themselves, only to the rest of the system. They didn't skip a revision here, they had to delay it due to unexpected availability problems.

And there is no PowerPC 975.

So don't expect large jumps in clock rate.

 

[kettle]

On a size issue, if the only way to get a dual powerbook is to use one dual core chip with added coolant features, then would the quad power mac just be a dual dual core powermac with no radical box or motherboard redesign.

Also, I think the only reason Jobs has stayed so patient over these last couple of years is because he knew and knows that the next big thing will be worth having his name on.

 

[nuckinfutz]

what I think we may see… a stand alone imac with a bit more expandability (meaning more ram, maybe a few PCI slots) with a G5 processor.

I simply refuse to think you're serious at all here.

This does not apply to the processors themselves, only to the rest of the system. They didn't skip a revision here, they had to delay it due to unexpected availability problems.

What? That is illogical as a statement. Processors creep forward on a defined timeline. Apple has stated that there was an issue with fabbing some G5s. IBM doesn't fab everything on the same line so problems in one area don't necessarily affect others.

And there is no PowerPC 975.
So don't expect large jumps in clock rate.

Then explain to me this : page 2
http://www.fz-juelich.de/zam/files/docs/vortraege/ibm-nutzung/hh_pwr4_arch.2up.pdf

What is your explanation for this roadmap clearly stating the POWER4 (Code GP) and then showing the PPC 970 (GP-UL). Now explain how we have the POWER5 (Codename GR) and it's "97x" (GR-UL) is slated for 2H 2004 at 2.5Ghz+.

Now explain to me why OSX 10.3.4 has a new Machine revision 8,1

I didn't think so. Try doing some research before spoutin off rookie.

 

[dizastor]

anyone think that this means the end of the power mac line.
there have been no revisions to the g5 in months…
if the imac g5 is released this would bring the imac to the same level as the power mac but at a lower price point (even more so if apple keeps the all-in-one desing)
what I think we may see… a stand alone imac with a bit more expandability (meaning more ram, maybe a few PCI slots) with a G5 processor.
No Power Mac updates.

If there are no powermac updates at WWDC I think Macrumors.com will implode from all of the angry posters trying to spew forth their displeasure at the same time... I for one will avoid Macrumors altogether for a week or so if that happens.

 

[TheWama]

Brush up on your Pattern Recognition Skills, Folks

If we consider the product numbers for the past few years, we notice 2 things:

• Pro Items take the ODD numbers (i.e. Powerbook, Xserve, PowerMac), while consumer items take EVEN numbers (i.e. iMac, iBook)
  (noted exception: 12 inch PowerBook)
• Generational Changes, such as the xServe G4->G5, and the PowerBook Titanium->Aluminum switch prompt a move to the next higher even or odd number, upgrades that do not affect form factor change the 2nd number only.

Now what do we have?

• PowerMac 7,2->7,3: Updated professional Mac (PowerMac G5), same Aluminum Enclosure
• PowerMac 6,3->8,1: Brand new consumer Mac (iMac G5), in a form factor we'll see at WWDC
  (alright, so it didn't come at WWDC, but soon, I'm telling ya)
  (note: it could also be an eMac, but this is highly unlikely, as they were recently updated)

No Quad-Anythings, no Flying Cars, no Time Machines

 

[badapple]

ok

This is not a speculation but an info I got from an inside source at Apple.
8 is indeed 975 and the ',1' means that it's a single processor as ALL the REV B machines are going to be. the cpu clockspeeds are going to be higher than expected (yes. higher than 3.0GHZ). from what I heard, there are talks about a low end 2.4 machine, mid 2.8 machine and high end 3.2 machine. all with dual layer dvd burners (from sony) and PCI express.

 

[jmustretch]

why not

I simply refuse to think you're serious at all here.

Why not??
Even a newly designed all-in-one g5 imac would bring stiff competition to the current line of powermac g5s (just think ibook/powerbook sales). Currently the 17" imac runs at around $1794… With a new form factor that includes minor room for expansion, a 17" g5 imac would realistically be priced around $2100 (I would think it would not be much more).

The idea of a headless imac was only to satisfy those who want to see one, but the reason we do not have one now is because we have the Power Mac. Nix the Power Mac and produce two smaller more compact desktops. Keep costs down and make more money.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Why not??
Even a newly designed all-in-one g5 imac would bring stiff competition to the current line of powermac g5s. Currently the 17" imac runs at around $1794… With a new form factor that includes minor room for expansion, a 17" g5 imac would realistically be priced around $2100 (I would think it would not be much more).

The idea of a headless imac was only to satisfy those who want to see one, but the reason we do not have one now is because we have the Power Mac. Nix the Power Mac and produce two smaller more compact desktops. Keep costs down and make more money.

Because people in Pro Audio and Video need more than iMac. They need a modicum of upgradeablility and the fastest processors they can get ahold of. They need HD bays. Sure Apple could change the iMac and add these features but then it ceases to become an iMac.

Sure add some beef to the iMac but there is a contingent of Content Creators that need something along the lines of a dual 3Ghz. Have you ever compressed video into two hours of MPEG2 at it's highest setting? Have you ever had 30+ tracks of audio running and needed compression, reverb and othe effects on each channel? Have you ever created an animation that required you to render overnight just to get a few minutes worth of motion?

You could double the speed of todays Powermac and there would be someone desiring more speed.

the iMac is King of the consumer space but after that we're treading into Pro land.

 

[Soire]

Maybe...

This is not a speculation but an info I got from an inside source at Apple.
8 is indeed 975 and the ',1' means that it's a single processor as ALL the REV B machines are going to be. the cpu clockspeeds are going to be higher than expected (yes. higher than 3.0GHZ). from what I heard, there are talks about a low end 2.4 machine, mid 2.8 machine and high end 3.2 machine. all with dual layer dvd burners (from sony) and PCI express.

I'm not going to question your source, but I actually consider this on the realm of possibilities. Although if this holds true, then they would have to use SMT so the chip acts like a dual. ...who knows.

But y'know what? Why would Apple drop the dual design altogether? Why not offer dualies as an option for the pros who need it. Whatever the case, fast processors would make me smile. ...

 

[ProfSBrown]

I think that Steve's keynote go something like this: Steve will come the stage wearing some jeans, with a black pole-neck that secretly has a board of circuit within it. He will walk through the stage, to traverse to a table with an object on it, which has a covered black cloth cover it. Before he gets there, he slides in something and strikes his head in the table, striking out a tooth. After crouching doubled over in the pain for some moments, he will be stand up and will throw off the cloth of the object... that reveals it to be new iMac.

The rock music will begin to play, and Steve visibly will be angered. In iMac's the screen will be a G5 logo of a certain class, playing in the Motion. Steve will stop the partial version of program that plays, while spit blood in his pocket. The Spinning Wheel of Death will appear, making Steve still more angered. He will open the side of iMac, and watches fixedly inside, silently. Then he will close it up, and he feels down in front of him. After striking the mouse around the SWoD still it will rotate, and Steve will loosen to its genius, entering a catatonic fury.

To this point, an assistant will emter to the Tiger of the partial version of program. The horrible music of Emo will begin to play. Steve will be stopped behind the assistant, breathing noisy and heavy. The nervous assistant will give his speech with a voice that shakes, his speech broken by fearful swalloning. Steve will appear utterly disinterested in the partial version of program. The assistant will accidentally spill the water of Steve's on the keyboard of iMac, sending panic of the nucleus of the Tiger. Steve will strike the chair with the foot towards outside underneath the assistant, and it strikes it with the foot in the posteriora part, and pushes iMac of the writing-desk with a wild sweeping of his hairy arms. Steve will finish the tonic note staring maniacally out towards the crowd, eyes that burn with vehemance, showing his toothless mouth now, dripping with saliva and blood. The curtains will draw.

Apologies for my English, I am Spaniard

 

[Sun Baked]

• PowerMac 7,2->7,3: Updated professional Mac (PowerMac G5), same Aluminum Enclosure
• PowerMac 6,3->8,1: Brand new consumer Mac (iMac G5), in a form factor we'll see at WWDC
  (note: it could also be an eMac, but this is highly unlikely, as they were recently updated)

No Quad-Anythings, no Flying Cars, no Time Machines

Forget about the odd and even numbers, look at the first number in respect to the chipsets used -- new chipsets usually mean a new first number.

Then computers are added, and if there is a big enough difference between two machines they get a new number.

Apple probably is making a big rev. B change on the 7,3 -- but we will probably see from our end a speed bump.

The 8,1 machine leads people to think -- new chipset. New high end workstation chipset or iMac chipset...

So yes, decent hint of a speed bumped rev. B PPC970FX, and a new machine with an all new chipset (which a G5 iMac would need).

 

[nuckinfutz]

TheWama I think your post is pretty much spot on.


8,1 odds on is the new iMac G5. Had the iMac remained a G4 Apple would have refreshed it along with the eMac.

7,3 is probably the new Powermac G5. 970FX processors will be used probably for a Single 2Ghz Dual 2.4. At most Dual 2.6. The 975(If announced at WWDC) will be 3Ghz.

I'm thinking that Apple could go this way.

1. Announce new Powermacs up to Dual 2.6Ghz. Announce G5 iMac.

2. Later in September announce Dual 3Ghz which will ship with 10.3.5 which adds 9,1 for the new 975 architecture which includes PCI Express.

 

[shawnce]

This is not a speculation but an info I got from an inside source at Apple. 8 is indeed 975 and the ',1' means that it's a single processor

Yeah the PowerBook3,3 is a 3 CPU system and the PowerMac 4,5 has 5 CPUs, got it.

I would look this over but why let reality interfere.

Ok how about this 8 + 1 = 9, 8 - 1 = 7, 9 - 7 = 2, 8 - 1 - 2 = 5... so 975

 

[Windowlicker]

anyone think that this means the end of the power mac line.
there have been no revisions to the g5 in months…
if the imac g5 is released this would bring the imac to the same level as the power mac but at a lower price point (even more so if apple keeps the all-in-one desing)
what I think we may see… a stand alone imac with a bit more expandability (meaning more ram, maybe a few PCI slots) with a G5 processor.
No Power Mac updates.

i have no idea what you're thinking over there.. of course we are going to have power macs! there has always been power macs - the pro line and there has been iMacs - the consumer line for a long time. they're not gonna forget the pro people..

if they have a say 1.6ghz g5 iMac, i'm sure they'll have at least a 2x2.6 g5 PM.

 

[badapple]

Yeah the PowerBook3,3 is a 3 CPU system and the PowerMac 4,5 has 5 CPUs, got it.

I would look this over but why let reality interfere.

I didn't say that was the logic behind previous models. you were quick to speculate I did. believe me that I did see the 3,3 and 7,2 and 7,5. other than that - believe what you want to believe.

 

[Windowlicker]

This is not a speculation but an info I got from an inside source at Apple.
8 is indeed 975 and the ',1' means that it's a single processor as ALL the REV B machines are going to be. the cpu clockspeeds are going to be higher than expected (yes. higher than 3.0GHZ). from what I heard, there are talks about a low end 2.4 machine, mid 2.8 machine and high end 3.2 machine. all with dual layer dvd burners (from sony) and PCI express.

taking your statement with a grain of salt, but it sounds possible and pretty cool too. you'll get some special treatment on my behalf if you turn out to be right

 

[jmustretch]

integrate

i have no idea what you're thinking over there.. of course we are going to have power macs! there has always been power macs - the pro line and there has been iMacs - the consumer line for a long time. they're not gonna forget the pro people..

if they have a say 1.6ghz g5 iMac, i'm sure they'll have at least a 2x2.6 g5 PM.

How about this…
Is there anyway to integrate the two lines… Prosumer.
Offer one machine with different variations (single, dual, headless, with monitor) that would satisfy everyone. I hate to say it, but look at the PC manufacturers, they offer one machine (or exoskeleton) and provide different configurations. Why shouldn't apple adopt this stance but with apple quality. It would lower the amount spent (both time and money) maintaining the two current lines.

Just a thought.

 

[Windowlicker]

HAHA!

I don't see and I don't hope that coming, although it would be kinda funny

I think that Steve's keynote go something like this: Steve will come the stage wearing some jeans, with a black pole-neck that secretly has a board of circuit within it. He will walk through the stage, to traverse to a table with an object on it, which has a covered black cloth cover it. Before he gets there, he slides in something and strikes his head in the table, striking out a tooth. After crouching doubled over in the pain for some moments, he will be stand up and will throw off the cloth of the object... that reveals it to be new iMac.

The rock music will begin to play, and Steve visibly will be angered. In iMac's the screen will be a G5 logo of a certain class, playing in the Motion. Steve will stop the partial version of program that plays, while spit blood in his pocket. The Spinning Wheel of Death will appear, making Steve still more angered. He will open the side of iMac, and watches fixedly inside, silently. Then he will close it up, and he feels down in front of him. After striking the mouse around the SWoD still it will rotate, and Steve will loosen to its genius, entering a catatonic fury.

To this point, an assistant will emter to the Tiger of the partial version of program. The horrible music of Emo will begin to play. Steve will be stopped behind the assistant, breathing noisy and heavy. The nervous assistant will give his speech with a voice that shakes, his speech broken by fearful swalloning. Steve will appear utterly disinterested in the partial version of program. The assistant will accidentally spill the water of Steve's on the keyboard of iMac, sending panic of the nucleus of the Tiger. Steve will strike the chair with the foot towards outside underneath the assistant, and it strikes it with the foot in the posteriora part, and pushes iMac of the writing-desk with a wild sweeping of his hairy arms. Steve will finish the tonic note staring maniacally out towards the crowd, eyes that burn with vehemance, showing his toothless mouth now, dripping with saliva and blood. The curtains will draw.

Apologies for my English, I am Spaniard

 

[JimNoble]

that is the law of diminishing returns - duals will NEVER add a 100% boost compared to a single cpu (of same speed). that is as impossible as travelling faster than the speed of light. there is always a performance hit when more than one cpu is used simultaneously.

I'm not so sure it's as clear cut as that. I can think of at least one pathological case in which a single CPU would be slower than two half speed cpus.

Depends greatly on the uArchitecture of the cpu - especially the cost associated with context switches. It would very much be a pathological case though (so more a "HARDLY EVER" than a "NEVER" )

Jim