New retina MacBook Pro GPU

[NoamTheMac]

Hi guys its my first post here! (OH YEAH BABY!!!) so anyway, I'm looking to upgrade my current computer and I was looking into macs for video and audio production has well has some graphics design and I was thinking about a 15 inch retina MacBook Pro and I understood that it is expected to be upgraded in October, now the window of me deciding what computer to buy is very narrow and ends at about September 10-11 and a huge factor for me to decide on what computer to get is its GPU and I wanted to know if anyone has a guess on what it will be for the next generation rMBP. I also heard that people had problems with the retina display when web browsing non retina optimized content has well has running windows on it and I just wanted to now if its a huge deal.

Pre-tnx for all the helpers!

(BTW I don't have any apple store to go to since I live in a country with no apple store! I know, I cry myself to sleep has well...)

 

[tgi]

General consensus on the new Haswell rMBP is there might not even be a dGPU. They will most likely come equipped with the Intel Iris Pro 5200 iGPU.

 

[NoamTheMac]

General consensus on the new Haswell rMBP is there might not even be a dGPU. They will most likely come equipped with the Intel Iris Pro 5200 iGPU.

I don't think so there is no reason for them to do so other than saving money witch apple is the only company that I trust and its not their priority

 

[leman]

I don't think so there is no reason for them to do so other than saving money witch apple is the only company that I trust and its not their priority

Then you should study the Apple products history a bit better They are ALWAYS saving money on components.

 

[sarthak]

Assuming you're a student or are on a budget, get the current generation which should save you anywhere between $500 and $900 off the retail price. Besides, if you were to get the next generation, you'd still be paying retail upon launch which is up to $900 more than the 2012 models. Does that extra money justify having maybe 2 extra hours of battery life?

The rMBP 2012 runs Windows just fine. Once you install the Boot Camp drivers it sets the resolution to 2880x1800 and scales the content to your desired DPI. Meaning you still get the Retina effect or can emulate having a 1920x1200 display (or smaller). Some apps do look very so slightly blurry that is because they are not optimized for the Retina display. Most modern apps work just fine. With Parallels, it runs slightly different, all the apps look clear and sharp.

I don't think so there is no reason for them to do so other than saving money witch apple is the only company that I trust and its not their priority

The next-generation rMBP will most likely have the Iris Pro graphics. They are not saving money going this route. The next-generation processors with Iris Pro cost nearly the same as the current generation CPU and GPU combined. It would not make sense with respect to battery life and cost to have the Iris Pro which is equivalent of a GT 640M-650M and also add a NVIDIA dGPU.

It will most likely have the Iris Pro 5200 only. This maintains the same amount of GPU performance while reducing power consumption by a large amount relative to current dGPUs.

 

[swerve147]

It will most likely have the Iris Pro 5200 only. This maintains the same amount of GPU performance while reducing power consumption by a large amount relative to current dGPUs.

...while eliminating all the headaches associated with Automatic Graphic Switching.

Imo Intel isn't quite there yet performance-wise, though. It might take another generation of Integrated Graphics before Apple feels comfortable enough to release their flagship line completely without a dGPU.

I kind of like the theory that the base 15rMBP will have the Iris Pro 5200 only, and higher end versions will still have the dGPU. Kind of a nice way to differentiate your product line between a $1800 base model and a maxed out $2800 one.

 

[NoamTheMac]

Assuming you're a student or are on a budget, get the current generation which should save you anywhere between $500 and $900 off the retail price. Besides, if you were to get the next generation, you'd still be paying retail upon launch which is up to $900 more than the 2012 models. Does that extra money justify having maybe 2 extra hours of battery life?

The rMBP 2012 runs Windows just fine. Once you install the Boot Camp drivers it sets the resolution to 2880x1800 and scales the content to your desired DPI. Meaning you still get the Retina effect or can emulate having a 1920x1200 display (or smaller). Some apps do look very so slightly blurry that is because they are not optimized for the Retina display. Most modern apps work just fine. With Parallels, it runs slightly different, all the apps look clear and sharp.

The next-generation rMBP will most likely have the Iris Pro graphics. They are not saving money going this route. The next-generation processors with Iris Pro cost nearly the same as the current generation CPU and GPU combined. It would not make sense with respect to battery life and cost to have the Iris Pro which is equivalent of a GT 640M-650M and also add a NVIDIA dGPU.

It will most likely have the Iris Pro 5200 only. This maintains the same amount of GPU performance while reducing power consumption by a large amount relative to current dGPUs.

I'm not a college student and my budget is pretty big and I don't mind paying a bit more to get something a lot better. My other option is to buy a custom pc and turn it into a hackintosh ( which is something I'm very skilled at and my parts are really high end: core i7 4770k gtx 780 16gig ram) I know that haswell is not yet supported but by October it will most likely will. The only thing I will use windows for is games do you know if there are problems with that? And for that reason I want to install windows on a separate partition on the ssd. The reason I didn't buy the latest generation rmbp is that it's GPU was to weak for me are you sure that they will not offer some gtx 7**m GPU? Well I'm pretty bumped out because if this news but still tnx a lot!

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Then you should study the Apple products history a bit better They are ALWAYS saving money on components.

I didn't mean that they are not saving money at all I meant that they are not saving money on the price of good components!

 

[RoboWarriorSr]

I'm not a college student and my budget is pretty big and I don't mind paying a bit more to get something a lot better. My other option is to buy a custom pc and turn it into a hackintosh ( which is something I'm very skilled at and my parts are really high end: core i7 4770k gtx 780 16gig ram) I know that haswell is not yet supported but by October it will most likely will. The only thing I will use windows for is games do you know if there are problems with that? And for that reason I want to install windows on a separate partition on the ssd. The reason I didn't buy the latest generation rmbp is that it's GPU was to weak for me are you sure that they will not offer some gtx 7**m GPU? Well I'm pretty bumped out because if this news but still tnx a lot!

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I didn't mean that they are not saving money at all I meant that they are not saving money on the price of good components!

OP assuming you'd like to do a bit of gaming here and there, the current retina MacBook Pro works a lot better then the iris pro but the iris pro would be better for application that use CUDA (or in other words, application like PS).

 

[Marrakas]

Iris 5200 Pro is not even as good as the 650m in the previous generation. It would be a disgrace if the new update brought worse performance.

 

[sarthak]

OP assuming you'd like to do a bit of gaming here and there, the current retina MacBook Pro works a lot better then the iris pro but the iris pro would be better for application that use CUDA (or in other words, application like PS).

OpenCL.

Iris 5200 Pro is not even as good as the 650m in the previous generation. It would be a disgrace if the new update brought worse performance.

Well you don't mention that raw performance is 5-15% less but rather state the Performance per Watt is 437.5% better and OpenCL performance is 40% faster for optimized apps.

My other option is to buy a custom pc and turn it into a hackintosh ( which is something I'm very skilled at and my parts are really high end: core i7 4770k gtx 780 16gig ram)

Terrible choice IMHO. If you need a desktop, get the new Mac Pro upon launch. 4770k won't stand up to a 12 Core MP with Dual AMD FirePro cards. I don't know why you'd choose a 780 if you're into graphic design and media production. Since you're going h*ckintosh, applications on OS X won't be optimized for the 780. More and more will support FirePro in the long run.

 

[RoboWarriorSr]

OpenCL.




Well you don't mention that raw performance is 5-15% less but rather state the Performance per Watt is 437.5% better and OpenCL performance is 40% faster for optimized apps.




Terrible choice IMHO. If you need a desktop, get the new Mac Pro upon launch. 4770k won't stand up to a 12 Core MP with Dual AMD FirePro cards. I don't know why you'd choose a 780 if you're into graphic design and media production. Since you're going h*ckintosh, applications on OS X won't be optimized for the 780. More and more will support FirePro in the long run.

Yes thank you it was open CL don't use application that require that so don't know too much.

Also agree with hackintosh, choosing the right hardware is just a hassle to work with and even then, there's no guarantee that it will work.

 

[vpro]

General consensus on the new Haswell rMBP is there might not even be a dGPU. They will most likely come equipped with the Intel Iris Pro 5200 iGPU.

This can only mean one thing, they are re-releasing the 17" MBP with dGPU - YES!!!!! The only pro in the line. I wish I wish I wish please release it sooooooo sooon I already saved up so much for this since late 2011.

 

[sarthak]

Yes thank you it was open CL don't use application that require that so don't know too much.

Also agree with hackintosh, choosing the right hardware is just a hassle to work with and even then, there's no guarantee that it will work.

I concur, the worst part is that you have to wait anywhere between 4 and 6 months before you can upgrade to a new release of OS X safely. Most systems KP or have non working components (audio, wifi, sleep etc.) when you update. H*ckintoshing is only supported by the community and in the long run, you've probably spent more time and money replacing parts and trying experimental features to make the system work with new software then you could've spent to get a high end MP.

This can only mean one thing, they are re-releasing the 17" MBP with dGPU - YES!!!!! The only pro in the line. I wish I wish I wish please release it sooooooo sooon I already saved up so much for this since late 2011.

There was very little demand with the 17" MBP.. Perhaps the new slim form factor of the Retina will be more appealing. The resolution is most likely to be 3360x2100 which doubles up from 1680x1050. I would prefer the 17" if they made the bezels a bit slimmer reducing the overall footprint of the notebook.

 

[NoamTheMac]

OpenCL.




Well you don't mention that raw performance is 5-15% less but rather state the Performance per Watt is 437.5% better and OpenCL performance is 40% faster for optimized apps.




Terrible choice IMHO. If you need a desktop, get the new Mac Pro upon launch. 4770k won't stand up to a 12 Core MP with Dual AMD FirePro cards. I don't know why you'd choose a 780 if you're into graphic design and media production. Since you're going h*ckintosh, applications on OS X won't be optimized for the 780. More and more will support FirePro in the long run.

Oh my man I wish I could but I'm afraid that it will cost way more then my budget which is at about 3000 but I still admit its very tempting. I'm a beginner in graphics design so I didn't want to spend all of my money on a quadro I just wanted to get something that would enable me to begin graphics design but at the same time would let me game, let me do gpu rendering and be a good bang for the buck. a couple of years down the line I do want to be rocking a quadro or whatever it will be by then but for now I feel that the 780 is just right for me now. but, if you have some other good gpu in the 700$ price range in mind im open to ideas has well has some tips on how to start graphics design audio production and final cut tips (I currently use Adobe software mainly for video editing and animating)

 

[leman]

It will most likely have the Iris Pro 5200 only. This maintains the same amount of GPU performance while reducing power consumption by a large amount relative to current dGPUs.

No and no. It has been discussed ad nauseum already. Even in the higher TDP configuration, the Iris Pro has substantially less performance then the current 650M and does not offer much in terms of power consumption under load. Iris Pro has plenty of computation power, but in the end the memory bandwidth is its weak point. DDR4 might improve that with its point-to-point interface. But we don't have it yet

 

[redkamel]

First decided if you really need a dGPU or if Iris works for you. I thought I needed a dGPU but most of my stuff is 2d and should be fine on Iris.

From what I can tell Iris offers similar performance but far less energy usage. I think it computes the same speed or even faster than the current GPU, but other components are weaker. Thus it has slower frame rates on games and 3D modeling (correct me if I am wrong). However: movies, photos etc...it should still be just as fast or maybe faster. I eagerly await benchmarks.

Wait till Haswell comes out. If you need a dGPU, get the newest model with a dGPU...which might be a refurb, saving you hundreds. If you don't need a dGPU and the new one is Iris, enjoy your battery life.

 

[Narcaz]

I posted this in the waiting for Haswell thread:

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2013/intel-iris-pro-5200-grafik-im-test/6/

They write in their summary, that the Iris Pro Graphics HD 5200 has better performance than a GeForce GT 730M but lower than a GT 740M. Futhermore a 750m is 25% faster (in general), but in some games 60% faster. This could increase with higher resolutions. The power consumption is not that low. Idle consumption of the Iris 5200 is only 2 watt less than an Intel Core i7 4700HQ + GeForce GT 750M (Asus) and under heavy load like Crysis 3 only 7watt. Therefore I would not expect an increase of battery life like with the Macbook Air. Maybe we get 1-2 hours of idle time.

 

[sarthak]

No and no. It has been discussed ad nauseum already. Even in the higher TDP configuration, the Iris Pro has substantially less performance then the current 650M and does not offer much in terms of power consumption under load. Iris Pro has plenty of computation power, but in the end the memory bandwidth is its weak point. DDR4 might improve that with its point-to-point interface. But we don't have it yet

You might want to take a look at the AnandTech review closely. The Iris Pro 5200 in the 55W configuration often matches or exceeds the performance of the GT 650M 90W in the rMBP. Your statement that it has substantially less performance is greatly exaggerated. Even in 3D Mark, the Iris Pro often surpasses the GT 650M.

Like I said before, Apple will state numbers such as; Performance per Watt, LuxMark or CL Fluid Simulation, Video Rendering Times and Thermal Related Benefits.

 

[whitedragon101]

I think the 15" rMBP is probably keeping the discrete GPU until at least broadwell. I think apple may move sideways and have an on chip GPU with the same performance and lower heat / power consumption. But I think it would be a hard sell to have one with substantially lower performance (than the 650M) and say it was progress.

Also by the time broadwell is out Nvidia will have Maxwell which will massively up the ante. Intel Iris Pro will have to be seriously fast to complete with a Nvidia Maxwell gpu .

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You might want to take a look at the AnandTech review closely. The Iris Pro 5200 in the 55W configuration often matches or exceeds the performance of the GT 650M 90W in the rMBP. Your statement that it has substantially less performance is greatly exaggerated. Even in 3D Mark, the Iris Pro often surpasses the GT 650M.

3D Mark is a synthetic benchmark. In every real world benchmark of a game (on the anandtech review) the 5200 performs substantially slower than the 650m and the gap widens as you up the detail and resolution. I think Intel have tweaked for optimal benchmarking on 3D Mark but it doesn't translate to real world performance. Fast but not fast enough for the 650.... yet

 

[sarthak]

I think the 15" rMBP is probably keeping the discrete GPU until at least broadwell. I think apple may move sideways and have an on chip GPU with the same performance and lower heat / power consumption. But I think it would be a hard sell to have one with substantially lower performance (than the 650M) and say it was progress.

In every real world benchmark of a game (on the anandtech review) the 5200 performs substantially slower than the 650m and the gap widens as you up the detail and resolution.

It depends on the game, perhaps it does perform a little slower in BF3 and Crysis 3 however, it does perform very well or better than the GT 650M in Crysis Warhead and GRID 2. It also outperforms in Compute and Video Rendering by a massive margin. Even if it's raw gaming performance is 5-10% slower in some games, it performs well in many other aspects and performance per watt proves it's significantly more efficient.

Apple is set on improving battery life, having 9-12 hours of battery life on a rMBP 15" with a faster CPU, faster memory, equivalent Iris Pro 5200 IGP, PCI-E SSD and other upgrades makes sense. They're not going to mention that it is slightly slower in some games but are going to advertise everything that is important to consumers and prosumers including Compute performance and Battery Life (due to increased PPW). Most people would prefer having the Iris Pro 5200 if it can outperform previous generation in Adobe and AutoDesk apps while increasing battery life. Besides, Apple's target market has never been gamers for notebooks/desktops.

Based on the leaked benchmark of the next gen rMBP, it has the 4950HQ with Iris Pro. It doesn't look like Apple is going to skimp on CPU performance either. If they aren't going to put in the Iris Pro 5200 they will have to go with a CPU that is lower end which has HD5000 IGP. Skimping out on CPU performance just to add a power hungry, GT 750M, and keeping battery life at 7 hours (realistically 5hrs) would not make any sense whatsoever.

It's the right time to switch to the Iris Pro IGP. By the time the next-next generation Intel CPUs has been released, there will be a massive number of Windows notebooks on the market with up to 12 hrs battery life and great CPU/GPU performance.

 

[GSPice]

::sigh:: How many threads are there going to be about this?

OP, welcome. But if you think that there's no way Apple would get rid of a dGPU, you're wrong and uninformed. As has been said with benchmarks and experience, the Iris Pro 5200 will be well suited to just about every "Pro" application, except for high-res/high-FPS gaming. And again, as had been said all over the place, Apple has never aggressively pursued the desktop/notebook gaming niche market at the expense of its other products. To expect that they should give it some disproportionate priority now is to ignore historical trends.

 

[leman]

You might want to take a look at the AnandTech review closely. The Iris Pro 5200 in the 55W configuration often matches or exceeds the performance of the GT 650M 90W in the rMBP. Your statement that it has substantially less performance is greatly exaggerated. Even in 3D Mark, the Iris Pro often surpasses the GT 650M.

In 3dmark at 720p resolution. Read again what I wrote - Iris Pro packs more computing power but its weakness is the memory bandwidth. Every game test at 1680x1050 gets a significant hit with the Iris Pro. And it won't change even if Apple gets some mythical Iris Pro+ part with double the number of cores and more speed. Memory bandwidth is whats crippling the system.

 

[Serban]

why are we comparing Iris Pro Hd 5200 with 1 year old and not likely to be the other option for the upcoming MBP 15" ?? the other option is 750M..so? there are still debates which is better? i guess not...in performance 750M would be a better component for a high end laptop

 

[dusk007]

Only some games have serious hit at higher settings.
Most games suffer just as much performance loss as a 650M. Check out notebookcheck tests.
Bioshock and BF3 are the ones that don't work so well. Most others do just fine.

Next generation with Broadwell Nvidia will still be about as much ahead as it is now. The question for Apple is when they think it is good enough to power their OSX stuff and pro apps. And that is true already and will only get better as with the Haswell edram architecture one can tickle out quite a lot of performance in theory, which should be helped by the new Xbox and PS4 centered programming.

No GPU switching is just so much more power efficient when you work with apps that need some gpu burst. Besides games in most desktop use cases a gpu could very often power down in between user action which is most of the time.

 

[tgi]

Only some games have serious hit at higher settings.
Most games suffer just as much performance loss as a 650M. Check out notebookcheck tests.
Bioshock and BF3 are the ones that don't work so well. Most others do just fine.

I assume you're referring to BioShock Infinite and not BioShock 1 & 2?