New 'Server-Grade' iMac With Next-Gen Xeon Processor Coming End of 2017

[Brian Y]

I think what most pros want are options. they might not necessarily upgrade their machine during its lifespan, but having more options available to them when purchasing is highly desirable. That was probably the biggest fault with the 2013 Mac Pro design, which ultimately led to its demise.

This. I cannot state this enough.

My iMac has been through the works upgrade wise, but for me, I need CPU and RAM. For what I do, integrated graphics would be absolutely fine. All of my data is stored on an external raid drive, so a 256GB SSD would be fine for me.

The trouble with iMacs is that Apple's philosophy has always been "upgrade all components at each step". If you want an i7, you need at least the middle model, which means paying for a GPU upgrade I don't want.

This wasn't so much of a problem on the older ones (2011) like mine, as pretty much every component was replaceable if you don't mind getting your hands dirty - you could change the HDD, add SSDs (spare sata port/replace ODD), replace the graphics card, heck, you could even upgrade the CPU if you really fancied it.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

You do realize that Apple will send you a prepaid shipping label to return any of their products for disassembly and safe disposal right?

People act like having user serviceable parts is more green, but what you do do with that drive you replaced from your Dell server? Most people drop it in their waste bin.

I'll bet that more user replaceable parts end up in land fills and polluting the environment than do Apple products despite their glue and solder.

I suppose. For me personally, I strip everything and use the parts, if possible. Like hard drives, I use the platters and spacers for wind chimes. The boards are sent to be shredded, and the metal is separated and recycled. But that's me. At one point, I had over 60 hard drives that were all stripped. It was interesting seeing the changes over time in the construction of them. I have yet to find a glass platter though. I've heard of them, but never found one so far. At least that I know of.

I've seen some spectacular head crash damage...
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We have no idea yet what the form factor will be. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

I was referring to the 'Mac Pro iMac' chimera. It's pretty closed. No upgrades, and probably limited memory expansion (if it's possible at all).

Which I find odd. Apple is saying 'no Mac Pro until next year' (basically), and yet they have this 'thing' coming out with a Xeon processor. Which is a departure from previous iMacs. Odd...
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I wonder about the heat dissipation with xeon processors.

Yeah! Does it come with a bread slot for toasting bread? A warming tray for melting cheese? A hot spot for keeping coffee warm?

iMacs run so dang hot! My iMac has a fan with bad bearings and it gets pretty hot. Imagine a Xeon based pizza box, already with limited ventilation, and then have a fan freak out, or a sensor fail. I wounder if there would be flames.

 

[StarryNights]

Apple really has to improve the airflow of the iMac, hot air gets trapped inside with nowhere to go, they need a vent near the top of the chassis.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Do you run a business? What should Apple charge? Cost? In the grand scheme of things, $120 is not that much difference over the 5+ years you'll own the machine. I do agree that Apple is super greedy when it comes to things like RAM though. To max out a Mac Pro's RAM in years past, you'd save thousands just by going to someone else. On the other end of the spectrum, some end users simply don't care though. When an agency bills out at $200+/hour or whatever, sourcing the least expensive hardware piece-by-piece is the least of your concern.

I am responsible for estimating and invoicing as well as the purchase and/or leasing of all the computers and devices used within the company. Apple is never particularly generous when the user needs to create a BTO configuration and if they do indeed end up charging $500-$600 for the Xeon upgrade, which I suspect I am pretty close to being right on, it will be unfortunate as the CPU may simply be the Xeon equivalent of a Core i7-7700, performance-wise. If that is the case, then Apple may yet have another PR headache on its hands. I guess only time will tell.

PS - Apple's flash storage pricing is probably the single most irritating BTO item to me, with DRAM a close second and CPU a distant third...$400 to move to 1TB from 512GB...sheesh!

 

[blacktape242]

Server grade?

 

[MacKenzie999]

In a recent Q and A, Phil Schiller made it clear there will not be touch screen Macs. Apple's philosophy on this is if you want to draw/design, use an iPad Pro.

Yes, but don't they have a history of reversing such statements? I seem to recall them saying they wouldn't do a tablet, nor a stylus. I could very well be wrong, my memory on this is a little fuzzy, but I don't think so.

 

[Val-kyrie]

.... All in all, I think Pro users will be disappointed if Apple ships an iMac "Pro" with a Xeon E3-12xxv6 as most Pro users that would consider the iMac for production will be disappointed that Apple isn't giving them a 6-core or 8-core option, especially considering that Intel sells two 6-core enthusiast CPUs (i7-6800K and i7-6850K) at a lower or similar price point (6800K - $420.00USD, 6850K - $620.00USD)....

Please send Mr. Cook a personal e-mail stating this. He doesn't seem to understand.

The other big question, and where Apple will have a chance to redeem themselves will be what GPU they end up using. The AMD Radeon RX580 and RX570 series have officially been launched, so there's a glimmer of hope we'll get at least a 4GB GPU base and a BTO option to 8GB of GDDR5 VRAM.

I'm not too excited about the RX580 and RX570. They only appear to be slightly higher clocked versions of the equivalent RX4xx GPUs.
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Oh no, not Xeon processors...

Provide almost no value unless you can use tons of CPU cores and adds thousands to the price tag.

Apple, can you please just make a computer with a maxed out desktop Core i7 like the iMac has but with a high-end desktop GPU and no built-in monitor? PLEASE?

You mean like a Ryzen CPU with Nvidia GPU?

 

[Amcmo]

Apple's new range of iMacs will launch in the second half of 2017 and will include a "server-grade" model to cater for the high end creative professional market, according to Taiwan-based supply chain sources.

Apple has already confirmed it is working on new iMac models for release later this year, but today's report offers another hint at what could be in store for creative pros and puts a more specific timeframe on those plans. According to the report, production of two new iMacs is said to begin next month, with a view to launching the consumer desktops between August and October and a "server-grade model" at the tail end of 2017.

The report comes from DigiTimes, which has a mixed track record when it comes to rumors, but with Apple already having taken the unusual step of confirming it is working on new iMac models for a late 2017 release, this latest information presents a reasonable timeline.

In addition, the technical details from the supply chain line up with previously leaked specs for Apple's upcoming upgrades. According to Tuesday's report, the high end iMac will feature Intel's as-yet-unreleased Xeon E3-1285 v6 processor, options for 16 to 64GB error-correcting ECC RAM, up to 2TB NVM Express PCI-e solid-state storage, and more ambiguously, a "latest discrete graphics card".

Typically, iMacs include a mobile-class GPU rather than a desktop-class card, so this last spec could refer to either, while AMD has a contract with Apple to supply the discrete graphics chips for future high-end 27-inch iMacs. The new iMacs for 2017 are said to be manufactured by Quanta Computer, which is expected to remain the largest all-in-one PC maker in 2017.

The earlier report detailing identical tech specs claimed Apple's new iMacs would be accompanied by a brand new keyboard. A previous report said Apple was exploring a standalone keyboard with a Touch Bar and Touch ID, but its release is said to depend on how well those features have been received on the latest MacBook Pro.

The original source of the iMac tech specs, Pike's Universum, also claimed Apple is working on an 8K external display, which would presumably feature as part of the company's highest end iMac offering. All iMacs are expected to ship with USB-C ports and Thunderbolt 3 connectivity.

Article Link: New 'Server-Grade' iMac With Next-Gen Xeon Processor Coming End of 2017

What's needed is not Another always behind the curve Xeon, but a top of the range i7 with fastest GOU, perhaps Nvidia 1000 series. That suggests a case redesign to allow for the thermal requirements. Check out @applehqnews part 2 open letter to Apple which discusses eGPU and storage as well.

 

[PortableLover]

Has apple ever had any custom intel chips? Maybe intel could do a custom e3 6 core or a slower and maybe less hot e5 6 core for this imac pro. This means the new modular mac pro could start at a faster 6 core.

 

[R3k]

A 34'' curved highend iMac would be a dream. Kinda moved on from 27''. I have 0% expectation.

 

[StephenCampbell]

I'm still hoping for Blu-ray support at some point. Also maybe a model larger than 27"?

2TB solid state is nice but I need at least 3TB internal, so I'll still be going with whatever the biggest Fusion option is, hopefully at least 4TB.

 

[Tesseract]

Xeon? In a non-upgrade-able chassis?

The life cycle of these iMacs is not all that long. What reason is there to jam a Xeon in there? Its like putting a Xeon chip in a laptop. Is there some angle on this I'm missing?

 

[El Q66]

No, no, no...

A server-grade Mac Mini is more in order and it doesn't have to be fancy but at least have the ability to upgrade the RAM by the consumer like they were back with the 2012 models. If Apple is attempting to create a "pro" version of the iMac, then they shouldn't call it server-grade...two different things.

My thought is a headless CPU that can be installed in a small space or tucked away. Speaking of headless, the ability to do a headless/remote setup like with previous versions of Server is nice but for all Mac Minis (considering Server is no longer an installed OS) and for the feature to be built into the OS - actually, for any model would be pretty cool.

Also, Apple needs to stop with the 5400rpm drives...

 

[Bacillus]

I have a good feeling that the "Pro" level iMacs will take the "thick" iMac form factor, use the space savings from the massive advancements they've made in logic board miniaturization, and use the extra space to allow cooling of higher end components.

They've done a ton of research on creating cooling channels in their gear so I think even with the "fat" iMac shape they'll have options that simply wouldn't have worked in the form factor years ago.

OMG - a "server" version !?!?
It will probably have its screen replaced with a mammoth fan, be stabilised by a thunderbolt external hard drive array and have outside RAM & GPU sockets to preserve all the glued components.
Upgradability anno 2018 - whaha !
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In a recent Q and A, Phil Schiller made it clear there will not be touch screen Macs. Apple's philosophy on this is if you want to draw/design, use an iPad Pro.

And if you grow out of your iPaddy, use your pencil to write it off (or as a selfie stick...)

 

[gondor5]

awesome! looking to replace my 27" 2013 model.

Same here. I got to say, my trusty 2013 iMac is still going strong.

 

[gim]

I don't think you have a clue what "professional" means. Not even close.

I don't think you have a clue about what I have a clue about. Not even close.

 

[flat five]

Granted, this is all speculation, but I imagine if Apple releases a Xeon equipped iMac it's going to use one of the lower core count flavors, seemingly negating the point. Unless of course that software really benefits from ECC.

are there Xeons / sockets which are limited to a low core count CPU?

like, if they put a Xeon in an imac, will the socket (at least theoretically) be able to accept a higher core CPU of the same family?

 

[stevet]

A modular system like the Mac Pro really shouldn't command a price premium for the sake of being modular alone, rather than its upgraded internals. Modularity implies the use of standards-compliant parts designs and interfaces. The new, new Mac Pro will likely be more expensive than most iMac options, but modularity shouldn't increase the price further. Especially compared to the trash can, which used proprietary parts and custom designs all over the place. Not that I expect the next Mac Pro to be a straight ATX design.

I don't completely disagree on the principle that modularity shouldn't mean higher price compared to iMac but historically speaking, they have.

 

[flat five]

This. I cannot state this enough.

My iMac has been through the works upgrade wise, but for me, I need CPU and RAM. For what I do, integrated graphics would be absolutely fine. All of my data is stored on an external raid drive, so a 256GB SSD would be fine for me.

The trouble with iMacs is that Apple's philosophy has always been "upgrade all components at each step". If you want an i7, you need at least the middle model, which means paying for a GPU upgrade I don't want.

while i too think apple should offer more customizable options, i'm just pointing out that the GPU upgrade isn't as expensive as it seems at first glance on the apple store.. it's $100 more instead of $200.. the other $100 is fusion drive vs. the spinner.

or, compare base 27" model with 256GB flash vs the next model up with 256GB flash.. you'll see the difference in price is only $100 (with the only difference between the machines at these configurations being the GPU)

 

[LordVic]

are there Xeons / sockets which are limited to a low core count CPU?

like, if they put a Xeon in an imac, will the socket (at least theoretically) be able to accept a higher core CPU of the same family?

Going to try and understand the question


But yes, for Intel, the socket and motherboard chipset is relevant to core count.

Currently, Intel only supports a maximum of 4(8t) cores on the consumer grade 1151 current socket.

Intels higher core count CPUs require socket 2011 and a different controller. Which ads considerable cost to the machine.

This is true regardless of intel family. Socket 1151 will support many lake and sky lake based consumer CPUs, and maximum 4 core (8t) Xeon.

If Apple goes Xeon, it'll likely be the equal quad core parts to the current I series CPU. Which really offers only the benefit of ECC, but otherwise are fundamentally the same.

If they go and add 6+ core Xeon. Expect a huge price bump to go alongside.



.

 

[kwikdeth]

so much misinformation in this thread.

if they put a xeon in an imac, it will be an E3-12x0v6. These are LGA11xx CPUs that are basically the same as their I7 counterparts. Same or similar TDP, same or similar graphics, same memory speed, same PCI lanes, same everything... except ECC support. You dont even get the other goodies like SMP in the E3 line. That is reserved for the E5s. There will never, ever, ever be a 6-core E3, because extra core counts are what Intel uses to differentiate between their server CPU lines. There will never, ever be an E5 in an Imac, because that would require engineering a specific logic board for only the top-tier model in the lineup. There is zero sense or value for them to commit the engineering costs for that and it will not happen.
The existing iMac logic boards with socketed CPUs can already accept E3 xeons without issue, as they are socket and ROM compatible with the comparable i7 roms. You can already do this with pretty much any Intel logic board that is out today. All they have to do to make this work is basically modify the AppleTyMCE driver which handles ECC support to accept the board-ID of the specific mac, and you have an ECC-supporting iMac.

The best part will be how it will likely cost $500 more, and people will run out and buy it and start screeching on here about their machines being more powerful for the 12 or so apps in existence on OSX that actually use ECC memory.

 

[flat five]

Going to try and understand the question

thanks LV.. it seems you've interpreted my question as i meant it

Socket 1151 will support many lake and sky lake based consumer CPUs, and maximum 4 core (8t) Xeon.

this mainly answers what i was wondering..

so, there are Xeons which could be put in an imac while still limiting the platform to 4core processors..

If Apple goes Xeon, it'll likely be the equal quad core parts to the current I series CPU. Which really offers only the benefit of ECC, but otherwise are fundamentally the same.

If they go and add 6+ core Xeon. Expect a huge price bump to go alongside.

and this gets at what i'm mostly interested in..
is there a Xeon socket which tops out at 6core support? or, are all the 6-core xeons going to be sockets which also support 8/12/+ cores?

do you see a chance at apple offering a 6-core iMac? if so, do you think best bet will be xeon or i7?

(fwiw, if i had a choice between a quad and 6core iMac, i'd want the 6core... and likewise, if i had a choice between xeon or i7 processors, i'd most likely want the i7.. )

 

[Count Blah]

Why do you still follow apple rumors then? Seems like a waste of time.

So someone who was forced to move on from using Macs professionally, should not be able to express their opinion on Apple's sad treatment of Professionals? If anything, this poster has way more to bring to the table than your snarky remark.

This poster could still have iPhones, iPads, personal Macs of all varieties. But the point is, and contours to be despite your sad attempts, Apple's shabby treatment of Pros.

 

[ekwipt]

seems like the digitimes rumour was just regurgitation Pikes rumour... circle jerk internet

 

[Count Blah]

It sucks for some of us but we should remember that around 99% of buyers will never replace a single piece in their own computer, even if it is possible. Those of us who want upgradability are in the very very small minority. Lack of upgradability doesn't impact most users, which is why the vast majority of buyers have no issue with it.

They get their technically proficient family/friends to do it. I know I've upgraded lots of family/friends Macs over the years.