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and this gets at what i'm mostly interested in..
is there a Xeon socket which tops out at 6core support? or, are all the 6-core xeons going to be sockets which also support 8/12/+ cores?

do you see a chance at apple offering a 6-core iMac? if so, do you think best bet will be xeon or i7?

the 2011-3 socket goes all the way from 4-core up to a whopping 32-cores on the unreleased Purley Lake E5s. With those guys its entirely up to your wallet how far you want to go.

At present, i'd say zero chance of a 6-core iMac with the current product roadmap. However if AMD makes enough inroads with its 8-core desktop CPU, there's always a chance Intel might have to change their plans to keep competitive in the marketplace. The Ryzen CPUs do offer a lot of performance at a good price.
 
An UPGRADEABLE iMac? Apple saying "no mas" to planned obsolescence? Color me impressed! IF this is true, I will be first in line to buy a few to outfit the office with (and also one for my home of course).

But how thin will it be? Sorry, couldn't resist ;)
[doublepost=1492559796][/doublepost]Because I really care on the thinness on the back of a machine which I will not be looking at, since I use the monitor. Not the backside.
 
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the 2011-3 socket goes all the way from 4-core up to a whopping 32-cores on the unreleased Purley Lake E5s. With those guys its entirely up to your wallet how far you want to go.
right.. so they can't put a 6 core E5 in an imac unless they solder the thing in which doesn't seem to be something apple does with the higher end iMacs.. but in this instance, they'd pretty much have to solder it in or else people will be putting CPUs in it which are just way too hot for the imac to handle (i imagine).

At present, i'd say zero chance of a 6-core iMac with the current product roadmap.
hmm.. okay.
a little bit of a bummer then.

personally, i'd way rather see apple 'cater to the pros' via a 6core i7 iMac than a 4core xeon.
[doublepost=1492560603][/doublepost]
But how thin will it be?
hopefully as thin as a sheet of glass.. and then hopefully as thin as a contact lens. and then hopefully so small that you can't even see it.

but these things are going to take some time to evolve..

fat chance at seeing a fatter imac while on the path to the future.. it's not going to happen..
like it or not, you might want to at least try accepting this instead of fighting the progression.

---
i'll guarantee you one thing-- when someone in 2050 looks back at a 2015 iMac, they're going to think 'holy crap, look at the size/intrusiveness of that thing!?!" ...in the same way we would do today when looking back at classic televisions or even CRT monitors (original iMacs)
 
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Yes, but don't they have a history of reversing such statements? I seem to recall them saying they wouldn't do a tablet, nor a stylus. I could very well be wrong, my memory on this is a little fuzzy, but I don't think so.


They didn't make a stylus....they made a pencil. Don't blame me for the bad pun, this what zealots say lol. But tbh...the pencil is no ordinary stylus. I was leery, I wanted to hate it and return at the high cost even but....it writes great, feels nice in the hand and in all honesty assuming no lost pencil issues....will save me money long term (I could burn through tips on more traditional stylus types..I ordered lots of extras to cover that).


If memory serves the no stylus thing was more against the clunky initial limitations of them in the early days. Which was somewhat legit, palms and as I recall HP's/others initial offerings in this realm were not that great.


touch screen also has not take off really for desktop. this was actually a ding against windows first releases of latest OS. It was trying to be touch centric. issue...people tend to not touch monitors. Or did not have monitors to support. Made UI "fun" to adjust too. Many still don't. gamers, design people...throw down mad cash for a good monitor. And it all smudged up gets annoying and obvious fast. So....they will not touch it.


If desk ergonomics in place...the monitor should be more than an arm's length away for starters. All up on the screen is bad for the eyes.

Apps don't or possibly can't develop for it. here enters iOS ways and methods are good for some things...a real desktop with kb and mouse is better for others argument. I live in many worlds. heavy iOS user, heavy windows gui user (servers and client OS' and mac OS as well) and CLI only Linux server usage. All have their bene's and all have their downsides.

I have design and technical apps whose menu get real layered. main menu item to sub menu, who has a child sub menu...and yes another child menu there as well. leads to pops up where you need to be accurate. Radio buttons, sliders, etc....they throw it all in there.

Why I like gaming mice for non gaming work stuff. They are all about DPI accuracy/precision and quick/sure movement (some you can even put in weights to customize your handling to your ways). Its also real nice they are great for some gaming when I blow off steam, I won't lie about that.

And its not you never know till you try. I got a surface pro for my son recently. I have installed some of these apps on it. Mouse/keyboard kung fu is hands down 1000% better. And I wanted it to work...it be nice to leave the laptop at home and "burrow" my son's surface once in a while.
 
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Apple could potentially bring a Kaby Lake Xeon out now if they wanted as the parts have been released through retail already, i'd suspect that they would use a AMD RX 560 or 570 mobility as their graphics card, possibly utilise Intel new Optane memory support to add to the iMac Pro name, so possibly have a 32 or 64Gb as MacOS 10.3 installation and Mac Pro Apps FCPX and LogicX, through software move certain applications over to the Optane Memory drive and then give you BTO M2 SSD from 256Gb -2tB.

Pretty sure we wont see any Nvidia options until MacPro gets released next year, but i'd love to see a Imac Pro get released with just Xeon and Intel internal graphics and some sort of Apple modular graphics box either with Thunderbolt 3 or maybe a new Apple Intel developed PCIe cable to get full PCIe 3 bandwidth. I can't see this happening with Thunderbolt technology being developed

I can't see them being able to deliver 8K with no 8K displays on the horizon, but a 4K 32" option would be available as well as 21" and 27". I don't think we'll see new displays from Apple until the modular MacPros get released.

anyway that's kind of my wish list from tidbits i've read around the internet
[doublepost=1492560924][/doublepost]
Xeon = more cores. 6/8/10 cores = more power.

the current ones with lower TDP only go up to 4 core unfortunately :

https://ark.intel.com/products/family/97141/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-v6-Family#@server
 
thanks LV.. it seems you've interpreted my question as i meant it ;)

You're welcome.


There's no current 6 core only platform. there's either the consumer mainstream one that supports the 4 core CPU's or the "prosumer" grade that'll support the 6+ cores (all the way up to 20 cores these days I believe)
so, there are Xeons which could be put in an imac while still limiting the platform to 4core processors..

Yes, there are Xeon's that will "drop in" to the same motherboards/sockets as consumer i-series CPU's. these could be used today without fuss. They offer nearly identical TDP (thermal properties). They're virtually identical CPU's (actually, the CPU portion is identical). THe only difference between the i7 and Xeon is the ECC ram support.

In reality, you could swap in a Xeon now to an iMac (If you wish to risk it, i don't believe the CPUs are soldered). But you'd gain no advantages.

do you see a chance at apple offering a 6-core iMac? if so, do you think best bet will be xeon or i7?

I don't think so to be honest. Moving to the 6+ core platform does change thermal properties (they're hotter). The Motherboards and chipsets are more complex and hotter (Though far more PCI-E lanes for thunderbolt support). It's not even the cost difference (at a PC retail level, the difference is huge, motherboards are hundreds more, and in many cases the CPU's are thousands more from intel).

Even if Apple does go 6+ core Xeon platform, the current iMac couldn't thermally handle it. The Current i7-6700k machine does suffer from some thermal throttling as is. Apple would need to re-design their entire iMac chassis and cooling solution to go this route.

it's not impossible. But i don't think that's in the cards right now. Apple seems to be caught a little off guard in the PC industry right now, and I don't think they're looking for something thats going to take 2 years to re-design. That's Mac Pro territory already,

I expect the new iMac's in the next 6 months

(fwiw, if i had a choice between a quad and 6core iMac, i'd want the 6core... and likewise, if i had a choice between xeon or i7 processors, i'd most likely want the i7.. )

I'm very much in the computer buying mode myself right now due to my current desktop not quite keeping up with what I throw at it. The Mac Pro is way WAY too down t he line. I'm looking 3-6 months at maximum before I buy a new computer (or replace most of my current one)

Looking at the options, 4 cores isn't enough for me anymore. When I game, I also tend to be running either NHL/MLB stream, have a web browser or two with 5-10 tabs, and slack, discord, etc. I multi-task. A LOT.

4 cores can't do this anymore. GTA takes a massive FPS dump because of it in heavy CPU areas. I want 6+ core. in fact, I'm at the point where I think i can say I need 6+ cores.

But just because I need 6+ cores, doesn't mean i need a Xeon. there are 6 and 8 core I7's. they're not cheap, but they're perfectly capable, and for a desktop user, the i7 is far more practical of a CPU. my use, (and i'd argue most home users are similar), don't need, nor will ever use ECC ram. Which renders the point of the Xeon absolutely worthless. I want an i7. NOT a xeon.

However, Given RyZEN's price and performance and core count, anyone who is seriously looking at a 6+ core CPU should seriously consider RyZEN. unfortunately, that's not likely to happen for Apple. Which means, back to earlier question, I don't expect a 6+ core iMac anytime soon. the cost would be astronomically comical.

as for Ryzen price?
Ryzen 1800x, which is their highest end, 8 core, 16 thread CPU, is $ 629 (CAD). Intel's highest end 8 core 16thread CPU is $1395 CAD. for 1/2 the performance, you get about 90% of the performance.

But Apple going AMD would lose Thunderbolt
 
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ECC ram support is a monumental waste of money, but I'm sure Apple sycophants will buy it for a $300 premium nonetheless.
 
ECC ram support is a monumental waste of money, but I'm sure Apple sycophants will buy it for a $300 premium nonetheless.
hmm.. i don't really think so tbh.
not if that's the only differentiating factor between this 'server-grade' iMac and the normal imac.

there will have to be something that is more noticeable during usages
[doublepost=1492563743][/doublepost]
You're welcome.


There's no current 6 core only platform. there's either the consumer mainstream one that supports the 4 core CPU's or the "prosumer" grade that'll support the 6+ cores (all the way up to 20 cores these days I believe)


Yes, there are Xeon's that will "drop in" to the same motherboards/sockets as consumer i-series CPU's. these could be used today without fuss. They offer nearly identical TDP (thermal properties). They're virtually identical CPU's (actually, the CPU portion is identical). THe only difference between the i7 and Xeon is the ECC ram support.

In reality, you could swap in a Xeon now to an iMac (If you wish to risk it, i don't believe the CPUs are soldered). But you'd gain no advantages.



I don't think so to be honest. Moving to the 6+ core platform does change thermal properties (they're hotter). The Motherboards and chipsets are more complex and hotter (Though far more PCI-E lanes for thunderbolt support). It's not even the cost difference (at a PC retail level, the difference is huge, motherboards are hundreds more, and in many cases the CPU's are thousands more from intel).

Even if Apple does go 6+ core Xeon platform, the current iMac couldn't thermally handle it. The Current i7-6700k machine does suffer from some thermal throttling as is. Apple would need to re-design their entire iMac chassis and cooling solution to go this route.

it's not impossible. But i don't think that's in the cards right now. Apple seems to be caught a little off guard in the PC industry right now, and I don't think they're looking for something thats going to take 2 years to re-design. That's Mac Pro territory already,

I expect the new iMac's in the next 6 months



I'm very much in the computer buying mode myself right now due to my current desktop not quite keeping up with what I throw at it. The Mac Pro is way WAY too down t he line. I'm looking 3-6 months at maximum before I buy a new computer (or replace most of my current one)

Looking at the options, 4 cores isn't enough for me anymore. When I game, I also tend to be running either NHL/MLB stream, have a web browser or two with 5-10 tabs, and slack, discord, etc. I multi-task. A LOT.

4 cores can't do this anymore. GTA takes a massive FPS dump because of it in heavy CPU areas. I want 6+ core. in fact, I'm at the point where I think i can say I need 6+ cores.

But just because I need 6+ cores, doesn't mean i need a Xeon. there are 6 and 8 core I7's. they're not cheap, but they're perfectly capable, and for a desktop user, the i7 is far more practical of a CPU. my use, (and i'd argue most home users are similar), don't need, nor will ever use ECC ram. Which renders the point of the Xeon absolutely worthless. I want an i7. NOT a xeon.

However, Given RyZEN's price and performance and core count, anyone who is seriously looking at a 6+ core CPU should seriously consider RyZEN. unfortunately, that's not likely to happen for Apple. Which means, back to earlier question, I don't expect a 6+ core iMac anytime soon. the cost would be astronomically comical.

as for Ryzen price?
Ryzen 1800x, which is their highest end, 8 core, 16 thread CPU, is $ 629 (CAD). Intel's highest end 8 core 16thread CPU is $1395 CAD. for 1/2 the performance, you get about 90% of the performance.

But Apple going AMD would lose Thunderbolt
wow. thanks man.
i'm now up to date again on CPUs

(or, as up to date as i'm interested in being. ;) )
 
Apple's pipeline for the Mac can use some of this since they have major constipation!
drano_maxgel.png
 
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I would potentially be interested in this model, but the price versus upgradability will affect that level of interest. I'm looking forward to see what Apple offers. The mention of going to NVMe sounds really encouraging.
 
I'm going to just go ahead and use my jump-to-conclusions mat here and state that there was obviously a translation error, and the iMac Pro will be 'workstation' class, not 'server' class. This makes perfect sense, as the current RiMacs already function quite well in content creation roles. Adding more horsepower on the CPU and GPU fronts with ecRAM for renders and you've got a lot of happy people. They will be stupid expensive though.
 
Sorry, Apple. Too little, too late. I transitioned my architecture practice to Windows 2 years ago because you completely ignored the needs of users like me, and provided no roadmap on which we could make our equipment purchases.

Yeah, it definitely seems like you came here just to gloat about your "architecture practice" which none of us honestly care about. Seems like you still care about Apple to some capacity, or you wouldn't be reading MacRumors daily. We get it. You switched from Apple and now you'll never go back. That's fine.
 
ECC ram support is a monumental waste of money, but I'm sure Apple sycophants will buy it for a $300 premium nonetheless.

Depends where the use case is. You'd be surprised at the number of random bit flips a simple cell phone gets on a 5 hours flight. But there are uses where ECC is worth every penny.
 
TIf memory serves the no stylus thing was more against the clunky initial limitations of them in the early days. Which was somewhat legit, palms and as I recall HP's/others initial offerings in this realm were not that great.

It was also in reference to using a stylus with a smartphone or PDA. You cannot use an Apple Pencil with an iPhone, so Steve's comments are still correct and Apple has not made an about face.



Probably meant Windows /286. :p



Even if Apple does go 6+ core Xeon platform, the current iMac couldn't thermally handle it. The Current i7-6700k machine does suffer from some thermal throttling as is. Apple would need to re-design their entire iMac chassis and cooling solution to go this route.

In addition to the heat issues, Apple will want to keep more than 4 cores the exclusive enclave of the (next) Mac Pro.


ECC ram support is a monumental waste of money, but I'm sure Apple sycophants will buy it for a $300 premium nonetheless.

While it's not of sufficient value for consumer software use, there are a number of "professional" disciplines that could benefit from ECC memory, including audio and video production as well as software development. It's also critical to certain scientific and financial fields. And ECC RAM's premium is more like $30 than $300, though knowing Apple... :)
 
While it's not of sufficient value for consumer software use, there are a number of "professional" disciplines that could benefit from ECC memory, including audio and video production as well as software development. It's also critical to certain scientific and financial fields. And ECC RAM's premium is more like $30 than $300, though knowing Apple... :)

Agree and why it may get a Pro name, i'm not sure why people are complaining here, if there is a Pro model, there's no one forcing anyone to buy it, just continue on with the iMac non pro and miss out on some of the features...
 
Yes, but don't they have a history of reversing such statements? I seem to recall them saying they wouldn't do a tablet, nor a stylus. I could very well be wrong, my memory on this is a little fuzzy, but I don't think so.
As I recall it, the tablet comment came in regards to the Windows World making the tablet laptop. Apple was saying that Apple would not make a laptop/tablet. Apple is still holding to that line even in the most recent comments. Apple's comment is that it stops the laptop and the tablet from being their best at what each does.
With regards to the stylus comment made by Steve Jobs, as I remember it, it was while he was holding an iPhone. He said the best pointing device was the one you always have with you, your finger. Or something like that. He was digging at other devices on the market that required you to use two hands, holding the device, extracting the stylus and then storing it again. Oh, and don't lose that necessary stylus. He was making the point that when a phone has a proper UI the user doesn't need a stylus.
Later the iPad came out and a stylus was added even later when use case and software for it made it make sense.
Apple makes their best guess but if the market goes in a direction Apple didn't address, Apple will eventually see the light. The big example here is the "large" size iPhone. Apple held off too long for sure on that one.
 
But how thin will it be? Sorry, couldn’t resist ;)

We have supposedly reached Peak Thin. More of the same-old same-old inconvenient access and thermal throttling will set the forums on fire again. There is no reason it needs an aerodynamic shape when it comes with such inconveniences. It’s also awkward to move/carry.
 
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