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It has a few bugs, but so does every other app in it's class.

The UI is very simple and clear and it integrates some nice features without complication or clutter (data detectors, the stationery).

For me Mail is a poster-child for what being a good OS X application is about.
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Until about 2006, Mail was catastrophically broken. There were implementation decisions, not "bugs", that were both generally stupid (like deleting all remote data from a server when removing a profile) and horridly abusive of the IMAP protocol.

It's gotten much better in the last couple of years, to the point where I now find it usable (I'm a mail client dev myself, and have hacked on mail server software like Dovecot). It still has some stupidity, but at this point I'd probably call it the best of the Big Three (Outlook, Mail.app, Thunderbird) for IMAP. When I say that, I'm talking about both the interface, and minimizing the abuses of the protocol that manifest as user-noticeable performance degradation when the user does something perfectly acceptable.

They've made a conscious effort, with their devs becoming active in the mail community.
 
Does it suck? Where?
Why Apple Mail Sucks.
It's slow.
You cannot type "Jo..." and have it go to the first message that is written by Joe Smith or John Doe. Itunes has this feature, as does address book. Mail does not. Even in those programs it is not that great.
The search is not so good.
Copy addresses (right click) gives you the address, not the name and address.
There is no notification feature (e.g. request notification that recipient has read this.
You cannot stop a message from sending without quitting the program.
It does not automatically create hyperlinks from urls.
It's slow.
There's probably more...reasons it sucks.
Oh, but it does nicely display html messages.

I use Eudora. (yeah, it is not up to date, but it's way more industrial strength.)
 
Why Apple Mail Sucks.
It's slow.
You cannot type "Jo..." and have it go to the first message that is written by Joe Smith or John Doe. Itunes has this feature, as does address book. Mail does not. Even in those programs it is not that great.
The search is not so good.
Copy addresses (right click) gives you the address, not the name and address.
There is no notification feature (e.g. request notification that recipient has read this.
You cannot stop a message from sending without quitting the program.
It does not automatically create hyperlinks from urls.
It's slow.
There's probably more...reasons it sucks.
Oh, but it does nicely display html messages.

I use Eudora. (yeah, it is not up to date, but it's way more industrial strength.)
Are you on Tiger and are using LDAP for contacts? I haven't seen that address book issue in some time. Querying LDAP and the Directory Services can be a pain in the ass.

The search does seem to have gotten worse in Leopard. I was able to find mail in Tiger that I can barely do so in Leopard. The address copying "intelligence" is very, very annoying.
 
Where are these 'suck every penny out of our customers' -rules coming from? Apple specific only? Enlighten me, someone.

No one can - I'm guessing one person posted this on some topic a few years ago - now everyone mimics it as an excuse.

It's not true.
 
Until about 2006, Mail was catastrophically broken. There were implementation decisions, not "bugs", that were both generally stupid (like deleting all remote data from a server when removing a profile) and horridly abusive of the IMAP protocol.

It's gotten much better in the last couple of years, to the point where I now find it usable (I'm a mail client dev myself, and have hacked on mail server software like Dovecot). It still has some stupidity, but at this point I'd probably call it the best of the Big Three (Outlook, Mail.app, Thunderbird) for IMAP. When I say that, I'm talking about both the interface, and minimizing the abuses of the protocol that manifest as user-noticeable performance degradation when the user does something perfectly acceptable.

They've made a conscious effort, with their devs becoming active in the mail community.


This is good to hear, but if it was so catastrophically broken, how come I have managed to use it to pick up and send email using multiple email accounts for many, many years.

If don't mind me asking as you are allowed to say, which mail client do you develop on?

Why Apple Mail Sucks.
It's slow.
Relative to what? This could be determined by so many possible factors and will probably vary from user to user. I have around 4000 message across all inboxes (not a big sorter) and it the performance is fine. Slow compared to what?

You cannot type "Jo..." and have it go to the first message that is written by Joe Smith or John Doe.
Yes you can, when sorted by subject.

The search is not so good.
In what way? Everything is indexed and fast. You can type things like to: from: and subject: to narrow your results

Copy addresses (right click) gives you the address, not the name and address.
If you paste it into a to field, CC field or BCC field you get the name and address.

There is no notification feature (e.g. request notification that recipient has read this.
True, but that doesn't mean it sucks. This is a missing feature.

You cannot stop a message from sending without quitting the program.
Yes you can, you can bring up the activity monitor and click stop.

It does not automatically create hyperlinks from urls.
But they will be hyperlinks when you view it in drafts and sent.

It's slow.
Again, slow compared to what?

There's probably more...reasons it sucks.
And you've barely named one.

For those criticising Mail, here's a “feature” in Windows Live Mail:

[1] If the Mail body hasn't loaded and you click on the subject (in the sidebar) then nothing happens.

[2] Once the message body is loaded, nothing happens.

The only way to see the body is to click on the message again.

Mail has handled this far better since forever. The body always shows up as soon as it has loaded.
 
Relative to what? This could be determined by so many possible factors and will probably vary from user to user. I have around 4000 message across all inboxes (not a big sorter) and it the performance is fine. Slow compared to what?

Mine can be slow at times, but then again I have some 80,000+ emails (2 gmail accounts).
 
So happy about the support for multi-touch gestures. It's a remarkable generous thing for Apple to do, wouldn't you agree?

Eh, one of the things I consistently DO NOT like about Apple is that they intentionally cripple their hardware from time to time. It's nice that they're adding this particular feature, but it also means it could have been extended to a larger number of machines when it came out.

It's good marketing. It's great marketing since it "adds value" to 10.6 for people with older machines but I'd hardly call a move designed to sell more units "generous."

What is obvious from this sort of move is that they're pushing the adoption of Snow Leopard much harder than any of the other point releases. They want the percentage of Macs running 10.6 to climb very fast.
 
- Expanded Multi-Touch Capabilities for Older Notebooks: Snow Leopard will bring 3- and 4-finger multi-touch gestures to multi-touch notebooks that currently do not support all available finger gestures. Examples of the gestures that will make their way to the older notebooks include swipe for Exposé and swipe for switching applications.

Is it gonna work with my white Macbook 2007? :confused:
 
I know people will defend apple to death specially with the low price of 29 dollars. But overall snow leopard is a software update that is usally pushed for free.

While I already commented on the magical addition of multi-touch being added to older machines was a bit cheesy to be called "generous" I want to address this because I'm tired of hearing it and now that a feature list has been revealed, I'm even more sick of it.

10.6's changes are, to me, more impressive than than 10.5's hands down. Optimizing and performance updates are hard and take a lot of skill. I'm surprised they're releasing it so cheap. I would have paid full price it. Just because changes are made under the hood (and from what I saw, there were plenty that weren't) doesn't mean they have no value.

Grand Central, for instance, isn't something that should be free compared to say, Time Machine. I wish more companies would do this. I have some feeling the price tag is getting a lot of people to think this is inferior compared to Leopard - Tiger, but I think it has more to do with trying to push fast and early adoption.
 
Will Apple Mail still suck?

I hope not. Generally I don't feel like I'm forced to "tolerate" anything on the Mac and while I've always liked the look and feel and Mail, since Tiger (since that's when I started) it's always been the app most likely to choke on something and refuse to recover gracefully from losing connections and things of that nature.
 
I hope not. Generally I don't feel like I'm forced to "tolerate" anything on the Mac and while I've always liked the look and feel and Mail, since Tiger (since that's when I started) it's always been the app most likely to choke on something and refuse to recover gracefully from losing connections and things of that nature.
Agreed 100%. This is the only reason that I use Entourage for my work Outlook account (both at home (IMAP/OWA) and at work (ActiveSync/Exchange)). I use Mail.app for everything else, but it simply chokes on Outlook accounts. Hopefully the SL version will be better.
 
Stacks

Does anyone with the beta know if the icon images load any faster in stacks in 10.6 than they do in 10.5? In my Documents stack in 10.5, it takes a while for all the icon previews to load even on a 2.4 iMac with 256 Video Card. I'm hoping performance is better in this feature in 10.6.
 
Does anyone with the beta know if the icon images load any faster in stacks in 10.6 than they do in 10.5? In my Documents stack in 10.5, it takes a while for all the icon previews to load even on a 2.4 iMac with 256 Video Card. I'm hoping performance is better in this feature in 10.6.
Sounds more like a thumbnail caching issue more so than a GPU one.
 
Another small refinement is that the weather widget now uses degrees C by default if those are the units in your country. In the past it always defaulted to degrees F and you had to change it.
 
The hardware does support multitouch, it's just apple refusing to release the needed software.

Does it support gestures like pinch? If so, it means it’s indeed multitouch.

Anyway, there’s no reason for Apple to not implement things like 3-finger swipe for pre-2008 MacBooks. It’s certainly possible.
 
Could anyone test Snow Leopard on their pre-unibody MacBook or pre-Early-2008 MacBook Pro and confirm if there is multi-touch support or not? I might get a Mid 2007 MacBook Pro if it indeed had support for this...
 
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