New Surface Pro 4 Ad Compares Tablet PC With MacBook Air

mi7chy said:
The trend is towards consolidation. Nobody carries a dumb phone plus stand-alone GPS anymore when a smartphone with Google Maps is a superior single device solution. Same reason iPad plus Macbook is obsolete since iPad can only run blown up phone apps and Macbook lacks pen and touch inputs. There's no reason Apple can't make a comparable Surface Pro device running MacOS other than greed with making you buy two turkeys. Apple will eventually give in like reversing its stance on phablet, stylus, etc. but 4 to 5 years behind the competition.
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Weren't they (Apple) 4 - 5 years behind in smartphones, tablets and NFC. They usually rather be late and do it right than rush into it. Then again I think they rushed into some decisions on the 6 and 6+ with that foolish decision regarding the logic board and now those phones have the dreaded "touch disease".
 
Garrod said:
What, you're saying Apple's products aren't overpriced?
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Correct.

Surface Pro gets very expensive when you start looking at the higher spec models with better CPUs, storage and RAM.

iPad Pro offers the same amazing performance in every model. You only pay for the storage you need, and cellular connectivity or not. There is some subtle differences between the two different screen sizes, but those are mostly to address the fact the larger screen model is pushing more pixels around.
 
SDAVE said:
A full laptop in a tablet meme needs to die.
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It certainly does need to die. It's not all the way to sell these devices. Though I do think these companies are getting closer to a covering all the bases with the bases (i.e., allowing you to do all you want/need to do on them, including what you used to do on your laptop).

I, myself, carry around only my iPad pro 75% of the time, and do on it almost everything I used to do on my laptop. But there is still that 25% that it can't do, for which I still need my laptop.

I think, in fact, that advertising for the advancements in tablets should go in the opposite direction. Don't call them "computers" or laptops. Celebrate their "tablet-ness." That you can use touch gestures on them, draw on them, change the screen view, and all that. Go with having them replace the laptop, not become the laptop. Because the hybrid device that finally hits the bullseye won't BE a laptop anymore. It will be a tablet with laptop capabilities.
 
louiew said:
Unlike most of the responders on this forum I own a surface pro 4, with the windows 10 anniversary update. I bought it when they first came out last year. It was the worst computer purchase decision I have ever made. First the hardware is wonderful (in theory). A good, light and portable laptop. I didn't purchase it for a tablet because it is the worst tablet device I have ever used. The problem is windows 10. In the 8 months that I have owned it:
1. Constant graphic errors
2. Bad wifi connections
3.various levels of freezing. I am currently getting partial freezing. The touchpad works but nothing will respond to a click or touch until I reboot.
4. Screen going blank and having to blindly force a reboot.
5. Constant sleep/wake issues.
6. The edge browser constantly going non-responsive.
7. Numerous other crappy issues.

I could start a group "we hate our windows 10 surface pro 4". I bought it because I needed the Visual Studio development environment. Maybe the next update will fix more than it breaks!
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Yes I've heard of most of those issues elsewhere before. I know the wifi has been a big problem for people. Edge still has issues even with the latest anniversary update. The freezes and frustrations of the device become unresponsive seemingly at random. It's pretty terrible, and I definitely feel sorry for you having to deal with it.

It's sad that Microsoft can't get this right. It proves that just controlling both the hardware and software doesn't guarantee your users will get a beautiful experience. There is clearly more to what Apple does than just controlling everything, and Microsoft still hasn't figured it out with the latest Surface models.
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SBlue1 said:
Lol. I have been waiting for an update to my Late 2012 MBP. Its 2016 now! Apples computer lineup is surely a no-brainer nowadays. :)
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The spec bumps people are demanding don't deliver very significant performance gains. The current hardware on sale is fine for most people. There is nothing wrong with it really. The advancements in the next refresh are going to go beyond just putting in faster Intel chips and graphics processors. That's why it's taking so long.
 
iMi said:
The funny thing... Mac Rumor's got a bug. The message you quoted isn't mine even though it says that I've said that... how weird.
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I think its my fault. I had thought of reponding to earlier post you made and MR leaves
the quote info in the buffer. Then when I respond to another post, i incorrectly picked up
your header data. So, assume I disagreed with something you posted. :)
 
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akuma13 said:
Just get a matte screen protector. I love it on my ipad pro. So smudges and no glare.
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Thanks for the suggestion - I always have an Apple cover & case on my iPad but I have never used a screen protector. Do you recommend any particular one for the iPad? I will definitely give it a try.
 
Michael Goff said:
Yes it is. Apple did it because they were the underdog. Microsoft is not the underdog in the PC market.
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But they are the underdog in the tablet market, which is what the Surface Pro 4 is. Showing that is actually just as if not more capable as a well know Apple computer is not a bad play.
 
DevNull0 said:
So what you're saying is Surface if for people who want an Eagle, Apple is for people who want 2 Turkeys. At the price of 2 Eagles. Got it.
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If the things you want a turkey for can't be done with an eagle, then it makes no sense to get an eagle when it clearly won't suit your needs.

I am not going to be serving an eagle for dinner, that's one.

There is probably some implication that an eagle is way better than an eagle, but that reference is kinda lost on me. Weigh the pros and cons and get the device (or devices) which best suit your needs. That's all that there is to it.
 
Abazigal said:
If Microsoft and Samsung want to admit that they are scrappy underdogs compared to Apple, it's fine by me too.

Just amusing how the tables have turned.
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Nice spin...... Scrappy underdogs you say.....these underdogs have never got to taste what it means to almost go out of business and get saved by an individual / product .....no...the tables have not turned. We are talking now about only a certain product range here, Microsoft make Bugger all money from hardware .

What has turned is that apple has joined the others as a company that has stopped innovation and just sits happy evolving its products..... A Sony.
 
MH01 said:
Microsoft make Bugger all money from hardware.
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I'd say MS makes a decent amount off their Surface lineup. They're sold at an almost Apple like profit margin, and are doing pretty solidly in the market. Though to your benefit, it probably is about the only hardware they're making money off of.
 
mi7chy said:
The trend is towards consolidation. Nobody carries a dumb phone plus stand-alone GPS anymore when a smartphone with Google Maps is a superior single device solution. Same reason iPad plus Macbook is obsolete since iPad can only run blown up phone apps and Macbook lacks pen and touch inputs. There's no reason Apple can't make a comparable Surface Pro device running MacOS other than greed with making you buy two turkeys. Apple will eventually give in like reversing its stance on phablet, stylus, etc. but 4 to 5 years behind the competition.
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Um, no. It's a UX thing. A tablet isn't a laptop and vice versa. This isn't because of hardware capabilities, but usability. I often carry an iPad and MBA when I travel, as the iPad is pretty good most of the time, or while on flights. But, when I have to do more complex work or dig into a more serious customer problem, I need the laptop. (And, no, a Surface wouldn't cut it... nor some kind of kludgy iPad-MacBook thing.)

BTW, Apple didn't reverse any stance there. The Apple pencil isn't a stylus. Again, it's a UX thing.

And, the day Apple puts a touch-screen on a laptop... well, I'm afraid to say it, because the 'new' (stupid) Apple just might do something that daft.

aUniqueName said:
BTW, I used to be a full on windows guy until I tried the Mac ecosystem last year for the first time (mac computer, iphone and an ipad). With features like Continuity (microsoft has nothing like this) and the fact that nobody makes apps for the windows phone, going full apple ecosystem is a no brainier.
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Welcome... though I wish you could have seen Apple at it's peak. Aside from Continuity, OS X has been mostly a downhill trend in usability in the last several years. :( I actually fear I might need to go the other direction one of these days (or to some 3rd option).

DevNull0 said:
There's nothing to compare to with the iPP. iPP doesn't even have a file system, meaningful multitasking or ports. The SP4 is so far beyond the iPP all they can do is go after that MB line.
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I'll give you that. It would be *much* more useful if it had a reasonable file-system. The kind of multitasking you're talking about is desktop OS though. But, the SP4 is a kludge.

fourthtunz said:
I love macs and APPle but someone at the top made some bad decisions from 2013 to now.
To make computers with 5400rpm drives, old processors and no ram at the prices they're asking AND
to make them non upgradeable...BAD Idea!
How much money did they make from having a 16 gig iPhone vs the bad ju ju they got from It?
These bad decisions are showing up now in the Apples sales and stock price.
So unless they change their course..I'll buy used macs.
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This is what happens when you switch from UX being top priority, to spreadsheets, pie-charts, marketing, tech-industry CEOs, etc. being in charge. Short-term thinking run amok.
 
Renzatic said:
Uh, the Apple Pencil very much is a stylus.
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No, a stylus is for UI navigation when the touch-interface is a kludged on mess. Apple's pencil is an addition for pressure-sensitive-like drawing and such. It's totally unneeded for other interaction with the device. Jobs' statement regarding this was concerning a device needing a stylus to operate.
 
dumastudetto said:
I think you should reward yourself a cookie just for spotting a Surface Pro out in the wild. They have sold so few that it is incredibly rare you'll see people out and about using them. Maybe there's a Pokemon Go style game I could make where you hunt for surface pros to score points?
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Actually, it's not just the comic con but also at the local coffeehouse in the college town I live at where Surface tablets are becoming common. You should hit college campuses and other places away from Apple stores that you camp at too frequently. You're likely to see more MS and Chromebooks around.

You can keep the milk and cookies.

Pokemon? Please. I don't roll that garbage. I grew up with REAL anime back in the day before Pokemon.

Ps. Ingress is far better than PokeGo, btw.
 
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ErikGrim said:
Stop splitting hairs, you know what he means. The pencil is light years removed from styli that's only useful to interact with a non finger friendly touch screen UI.
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I don't know if I'm splitting hairs so much as look at it more as a simple standard definition. If it's a pen like device that interacts with a computer screen, it's a stylus, and/or a pen. Regardless if it's used to draw, take notes, or navigate a cluttered UI, it's still a stylus, and/or a pen.

The Apple Pencil is great, arguably better than it's direct competitor, but it's not something else entirely. It's a stylus, and/or a pen.
 
Renzatic said:
I don't know if I'm splitting hairs so much as look at it more as a simple standard definition. If it's a pen like device that interacts with a computer screen, it's a stylus, and/or a pen. Regardless if it's used to draw, take notes, or navigate a cluttered UI, it's still a stylus, and/or a pen.

The Apple Pencil is great, arguably better than it's direct competitor, but it's not something else entirely. It's a stylus, and/or a pen.
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But that's not what the argument is about, it's about claiming Apple reversed direction based on a Steve quote taken out of context when they didn't.
 
The Surface Pro 4 hardwarewise is a great device and it's much more capable of doing notebook stuff than the IPP is. That's because the IPP is a full blown tablet, while MS is offering a notebooklike performance in a tablet-factor. If people want a notebook first and then a tablet their choice is known as Surface Book.

MS is charging a lot for the SP 4, the higher end ones are all starting 1.399 + surface keyboard and you are at the price of a 13'inch MBP.
 
Pilgrim1099 said:
Pokemon? Please. I don't roll that garbage. I grew up with REAL anime back in the day before Pokemon.
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That would make a pretty funny ad, if Apple wanted to acknowledge the existence of the Surface. People using the Surface-mon app or something searching around trying to find a Surface, only to be disappointed in only finding one all day. :)

But, this isn't (or shouldn't) be a popularity contest. We old-timer Apple folks remember when seeing Macs was't so common. The question is if it's good or better. It clearly isn't for most purposes.

Renzatic said:
I don't know if I'm splitting hairs so much as look at it more as a simple standard definition. If it's a pen like device that interacts with a computer screen, it's a stylus, and/or a pen. Regardless if it's used to draw, take notes, or navigate a cluttered UI, it's still a stylus, and/or a pen.

The Apple Pencil is great, arguably better than it's direct competitor, but it's not something else entirely. It's a stylus, and/or a pen.
Click to expand...

The point isn't about definitions, it's about the use. iOS has no need for a stylus/pencil, while many other 'touch-OSs' do or have. That's the context of Jobs' comment. Apple's Pencil (stylus, call it what you like) isn't primary about interacting with the UI, but about drawing (which wasn't Steve's context).
 
DoctorTech said:
Thanks for the suggestion - I always have an Apple cover & case on my iPad but I have never used a screen protector. Do you recommend any particular one for the iPad? I will definitely give it a try.
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I just got a Tech Armor one from ebay. Comes 2 in a pack.
 
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