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You express how good the outdated Macs are but then you say a "likely" refresh is coming. That's the entire problem with the Mac lineup. You want to buy but you can't. And maybe I'm alone but I would be pissed if I spent big money on a outdated computer only to have the replacement come out a few months later with better specs. Just look at the buyers guide here on the site. Click on Mac and it's down right embarrassing. How can anyone here defend that? There have been articles outside of this site bringing attention to this very same issue.

The Mac line is definitely overdue for an update; nobody is debating that. The supply issues have been well-documented, and no doubt Apple is as upset about the situation as you or any other customer is.
 
Cementing their underdog status in the most effective way.

In which way you mean underdog ...

Apple dominantes the mobile phone market ... after that nothing.
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The Mac line is definitely overdue for an update; nobody is debating that. The supply issues have been well-documented, and no doubt Apple is as upset about the situation as you or any other customer is.

Apparently not upset enough to do something about ... Still rocking a 2011 iMac but needs replacement - it's slowly dying.
 
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At least Microsoft gives you a real OS on the tablet. While I like iOS, there aren't any pro apps that really make it shine. I could probably be more productive on the surface than the iPad. In fact when I have an iPad...it does nothing more for me than basic web tasks, email,financial apps....and SkyGuide. I can't work with the real Adobe suite, I can't edit video with a real editor from sorce material captured elsewhere, I can't update websites, I can't run real apps I need to get work done. I think Microsof is trying to make that point. I like the surface concept and I wish Apple would realize that when we said "mac tablet" in the 90's...we wanted a tablet running Mac OS 9 or OS X (depending on the year)....not a stripped down OS for idiots that can't understand touch screens. iOS would be great as kind of an AtEase layer for a tablet...but I want a button that takes me to the Finder. The day I can do that is the day I can use an iPad for real work. It is a shame because the iPad Pro has some really great features....the OS and lack of pro apps just limits its abilities. No filesystem access is just plain useless.
 
The Surface line has changed things a little, because there is also tight, integrate hardware solution for Windows now. It's not really a significant product in the grand scheme of things, though. Most people I know who have Windows absolutely hate it since the Win7/8/10 redesign and are constantly dismissing prompts to upgrade to 10.

The issues with battery performance and sleep/wake on Microsoft devices as well as third-party hardware suggests to me we're not seeing much benefit of Microsoft controlling both the hardware and software experience.

Can you imagine Apple selling an iPad that didn't go to sleep properly? Or selling an iPad that wouldn't respond to wake requests on the rare occasions where sleep does work as intended?

I guess you could say Microsoft is being generously kind with their OEM partners by not treating their own hardware particularly special in regards to how well it works with their operating system. :)
 
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In which way you mean underdog ...

Apple dominantes the mobile phone market ... after that nothing.

You better forget the old ways to segment the computing market.

Also, Microsoft hardware sales (the Surface you see adverised here, for example) are a tiny fraction of Apple's, so, underdog it is, and by a wide margin.


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Apple dominantes the mobile phone market ... after that nothing.
Microsoft's Surface Pro and book account for a tiny fraction of market share, so compared to Apple they are an underdog.
 
I'd certainly consider a Surface Pro the next time I'm looking for a tablet to replace my iPad Mini, but not so much if I wanted to replace my MacBook Pro (I don't think). I use and like both platforms and they each have their strengths and weaknesses for my usage.

As someone who has owned an SP4 (twice, now), I think you'd regret it. The only reason to own a Surface Pro is if you want a hybrid device that you'll primarily use as a thin laptop; the tablet side of things really is Windows' Achilles Heel. Setting aside all of the battery/driver issues and what-not, it's an only okay touchscreen device and still really only offers a full experience when you're using a keyboard/mouse.
 
The Surface also doesn't know how to sleep and wake properly (Windows 10 bugs)
The real-world battery life is truly terrible
It feels like almost nobody is making Windows apps anymore - everything feels outdated and abandoned
Surface delivers a compromised experience that delivers the worst of both world's in a very overpriced package.

Get yourself a Mac and an iPad and you'll have the very best of both world's. It should be a no-brainer for anyone.

And carry two devices ...... not to mention the cost.
 
the problem with Surface Pro is that the price without keyboard is just meaningless (i pass that the pen isn't mandatory for some).
it does more than a laptop, and is more expensive than one.

The surface pro 4 with keyboard starts at 865.99. Until August 15th it was on sale for $950 with keyboard and an XBOX, extra controller and a $50 Microsoft Gift card. If you were thinking of getting an Xbox the price is 1/3 an MacBook. If you weren't they are the same price.
 
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I think we can all agree the MacBook Air is garbage, so they're not wrong in that aspect; but that commercial was just awful. Absolute cringe-material.
 
You better forget the old ways to segment the computing market.

Also, Microsoft hardware sales (the Surface you see adverised here, for example) are a tiny fraction of Apple's, so, underdog it is, and by a wide margin.


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That graph was obviously created by a chimpanzee. You see "Android", "Apple" and "Windows". That makes no sense. Android is an OS, Windows is an OS, Apple isn't. macOS and iOS should be shown separately. I assume that in the current state, the software for Windows phones is integrated into the Windows part. Could also be shown separately (although... the market share is practically zero so it would disappear).
 
Could Apple? For DECADES, Apple hasn't done anything else in their ad campaigns than belittling the competition. That goes back to the 1980s, when they used Charles Chaplin's "Tramp" in their ads that targeted the IBM PC and reached the height in the "Hi, I'm a PC..." campaigns.

Well, Payback's a bitch.
I don't see how that's payback, Apple laptops have been a very popular product, so its only natural for MS to show how it thinks its products are superior.

Its not payback, its just marketing.
 
I'll take the Apple thanks MS. Especially Os X over W 10. The constant updating that can't really be put off makes it quite easy really.
 
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It makes sense if both devices are tailored for their specific purpose.

I'd honestly rather have an 7.9" iPad Mini and a 14" traditional laptop. That makes more sense than to combine both functions into a 12" device like a Surface Pro 4.

The problem with 2-in-1s is that they usually large for a tablet and small for a laptop. You simply can't have one device that mimics two different physical sizes.

The worst is the larger 2-in-1s that most companies are peddling now. Who the hell wants a 4lb "tablet" ? :D

The surface pro 4 weighs 1.73 lbs.
15" MacBook Pro: 4.49 lbs
13" MacBook Air: 2.96 lbs
iPad Mini: 0.68 lbs

Suggested Apple solution is 3.64 to 5.17 lbs, not including power bricks and cables. Who indeed.
 
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That graph was obviously created by a chimpanzee. You see "Android", "Apple" and "Windows". That makes no sense. Android is an OS, Windows is an OS, Apple isn't. macOS and iOS should be shown separately.

It does not matter. The point is that, from a near-monopoly in the '90s, Microsoft, and the whole Wintel ecosystem, is now an underdog in computing. And hardware-wise, MS is an underdog compared to Apple.
 
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The surface pro looks nice but I don't really understand who they marketing it towards with these kinds of adds.
 
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