New thinner iMac

[cocky jeremy]

What is it with you guys who seem to value Form over Function?

You don't get it. You lose zero functionality by dropping the ODD. Anything the ODD does, you can do without it. You can get software other places. If you're one of the very few people that rip music off of CD's, you can buy an external ODD. It makes zero sense to keep something that very few people still use. If they did that, they'd still have Parallel ports, Serial ports, floppy drives, etc. There is zero reason to need physical disks now. They had a time and place, and it's over. Quit being afraid of leaving the past where it belongs.

Some people will jump to the next new thing regardless of whether or not it's actually better, just because it's new.

Don't get me wrong, you are appreciated, I make my living off of suckers who like shiny things without regard to functionality.

I promise you, i lose zero functionality by not having a ODD. You know how i know that? Because i have an ODD and never, literally never, use it. I'm not stuck in 1995.

 

[njean777]

If you want to use outdated technology, buy a PC.

Hell, I believe you can still get PCs with floppy disk drives. Want Apple to put that back into iMac too?

WAT??? Most PC's have the same technology if not newer in them then iMacs. A optical drive on an iMac makes sense. On a notebook you can get away with ditching it for a slimmer form factor, but it is a desktop, not a laptop. It is suppose to be an all in one...

 

[yinz]

You don't get it. You lose zero functionality by dropping the ODD. Anything the ODD does, you can do without it. You can get software other places. If you're one of the very few people that rip music off of CD's, you can buy an external ODD. It makes zero sense to keep something that very few people still use. If they did that, they'd still have Parallel ports, Serial ports, floppy drives, etc. There is zero reason to need physical disks now. They had a time and place, and it's over. Quit being afraid of leaving the past where it belongs.


I promise you, i lose zero functionality by not having a ODD. You know how i know that? Because i have an ODD and never, literally never, use it. I'm not stuck in 1995.

I totally agree. Bring on the USB3's!

Also, it makes no sense to make us (the people that don't use optical drives) to pay for it when we don't need it.

I'm sure that without the optical drive and a thinner body, Apple will still be able to give us improved graphics and/or processing speed and I'd be glad that the money they use for my optical drive goes to development in those other areas.

If you need an optical drive for those times you use it once or twice a year, Apple sells an accessory for that.

It's not grand at all. DVD sales just started falling drastically in the last few years (and movie ticket sales plummeted with them so it might just be hollywood making crap).

Maybe, but I think the highest grossing movies were made within the last few years..

This doesn't make any sense. Your first "question" is impossible to decipher. As for the second, why would their be a backlash against streaming? No one protests and added service, they just fought when Netflix tried to do away with dvds.

Well the simple fact is Netflix were willing to get rid of DVD's, so obviously a majority of their rentals were from streaming. So much so that they were willing to get rid of their DVD's.

My point is that: "no one protests [an] added service." People will argue against cutting features, but not against added features. Just because a feature is still here doesn't mean that a "majority of people" use it. You have no support, thus your statements are grandiose.

It's not really a good deal, though I use it myself. You pay $99 for something which allows you to download more expensive movies than you can get on DVD. Streaming your media to it is a nightmare if you own a Windows computer (which the majority of people do) because iTunes still absolutely sucks on it.

For reference, I have a top of the line windows 7 computer I built last year and a 6 year old macbook pro. I have to stream iTunes over the macbook pro because iTunes crashes on the other one.

That's your perspective. The Apple TV forum will beg to differ. Apple TV is arguably the best accessory for iDevices and soon Macs (when Mountain Lion goes commercial). It's a portable-put-anything-on-your-big-screen,-anything-to-your-digital-speakers box. For $99, you turn your TV into a giant iDevice or Mac. I don't see a downside to this $99, it is probably one of the better deals from Apple. I don't think you can do better with $99, besides food.. LOL.

It's great your computer is so fast. You should get that checked out, it sounds like you got a lemon. iTunes hasn't crashed yet, and I'm using a 3-year-old Asus EEE right now.

The point was that something can't be almost logical. It either is or isn't.

Okay. The "almost" was obviously a joke, but I guess it's hard to read my intonation over text.

Indeed, but then so is pretty much everything discussed in most of these threads.

All right.

It already can do that. Trimming inches and ounces off a phone, tablet or netbook gains you something because those are portable devices. Trimming an inch off the depth of the iMac doesn't gain you even that inch of desk space.

Your desk maybe, but a lot of you (not you specifically, but many people talking about desk space) is not acknowledging the fact that not every place in the world has as much desk space as you have in the United States.

No, an inch off of an iMac isn't a lot, but it's a start. It's not about what the inch does now, it's about what it can do in the future.

WAT??? Most PC's have the same technology if not newer in them then iMacs. A optical drive on an iMac makes sense. On a notebook you can get away with ditching it for a slimmer form factor, but it is a desktop, not a laptop. It is suppose to be an all in one...

I think what he means is, PC is less willing to innovate. That's why our computers generally stayed the same from 1995 to 2007. The only major changes were slight changes to internals like improved this and that unlike Mac's innovations with wifi, all-in-ones, and multitouch gestures.

 

[seanm9]

well, one thing you need to think about is the fact that if apple eliminates the ODD anyone without a drive will most likley buy all of their software on the mac app store. it will increase buisness for the App Store.

Not if they Sandbox all the apps. removing the Drive and crippling the software that you can use all in ten days.... great....

DVD is FOURTEEN years old... There is no other technology in any Apple product that is as old as this! It is way past time for Apple to get rid of this old technology.

Keyboards have been around for more than 14 years. Are you saying that Apple will remove the keyboard from the iMac and give us a touch screen... or some other input device....

the fact of the matter is that while DVD is 14 years old, no one has come up with a better way to distribute files. the Floppy was killed because CD's and DVD still gave you a physical medium to move large files from one place to another, and also file sizes outgrew what a floppy could hold(game installs on 6 or 7 disks) and CD's/DVD were there to fill the viod. Now have software installs grown to more than what a DVD can hold? I dont know but there is Still Blu-Ray (you could add the drive and not allow movie playback) and I dont see flash-drives being the the next format for software distrubution (is Lion the only software shipped that way) and how will you install windows with out an optical drive...

 

[mikdog]

peoples. the big picture is that we're heading in the general direction of EVERYTHING being in the cloud. as internet connections get faster and cheaper which seems to be taking longer than it should, EVERYTHING besides ur screen and input devices will be offline. i mean, storage, gpu, processor, apps, will all be offline and streamed to your screen. for sheez. so, i wouldn't be surprised to start seeing the dvd drive fall away from the imac. as a side i've got a pimped out 2011 27" imac that i really like.

 

[Occamsrazr]

I guess if nothing else, we have learned why Matador Red won't ever get hired by Apple.

 

[ctdonath]

What is it with you guys who seem to value Form over Function?

Form follows function (well, it should).
Function must be refined on a regular basis, discarding what is rarely used.

I'm sitting here looking at a recent-model quad-core 3.xGHz dual-screen Dell with a floppy drive, OOD, RS232 serial port, parallel printer port, PS/2 keyboard & mouse ports, ... most of which do, in fact, get used, on occasion. At what point does someone say "Enough! dump that stuff and adapt already!"? So long as it's there, most of it will get used just enough that some will whine about the thought of losing it ... yet will get around the issue when it's gone.

 

[forty2j]

why are there all these down votes, i counteracted one so now its -9 this is a cool design. all it needs is backlit keyboard

If I wanted MBA performance, I'd buy an MBA. There's no room in there for a powerful desktop computer.

 

[forty2j]

You don't get it. You lose zero functionality by dropping the ODD. Anything the ODD does, you can do without it.

I can't wait to figure out how to install Windows on Bootcamp without an ODD. I know it's possible, but it's far from convenient. (And it will also cost me twice as much as getting an OEM disc.) And for those of us with strong internet connections, all we're talking about is convenience. If Apple wants to shave 5mm off the thickness (which would have no impact on the base size) to inconvenience me, I'll be very disappointed.

For people who live in the 75% of the populated world without good broadband internet (ok, this is a guess - but consider that outside of the US, western Europe, and coastal Asia, it's uncommon - and there are even wide swaths of the US that are lacking), suggesting they should be satisfied with digital downloads is just silly. And suggesting they all should buy externals is also silly. You seriously lose the point of an all-in-one.

 

[PadreQuevedo]

No glass pleaaaase !

 

[seanm9]

one thing about the cloud

do web pages today load any faster than web pages of 1995?

No, the time to load a web page, as internet speeds have increased stayed about the same... why because they do more... a web page from 1995 was coded for 1995 dial-up speeds, and had few multi-media objects in it... as speeds have increased, the size of the files that make a web page have bloated. then there is the fact that as your connection to the web has gotten faster, you have added more devices to your LAN, all sharing your connection. will my son be able to play Diablo 3, while my wife streams a movie on netflix to the bedroom Mac, my daughter streams video to her mini, and I play online with my PS3?... how many 1080p streams can a 25 or 50 Mb/s stream...

if every one only had 1 IP device on their "network" losing the ODD would be a good thing... but in the real world not so much...

 

[forty2j]

peoples. the big picture is that we're heading in the general direction of EVERYTHING being in the cloud. as internet connections get faster and cheaper which seems to be taking longer than it should, EVERYTHING besides ur screen and input devices will be offline. i mean, storage, gpu, processor, apps, will all be offline and streamed to your screen. for sheez.

I'm not going to disagree with this, but you can't will the future into the present. Cloud is in its infancy, and broadband penetration is much lower than you might expect. In the lifetime of my 2012 iMac, I do expect physical media to die out, but that doesn't mean that my 2012 iMac won't need an ODD for the at least the first half of its existence.

 

[Matador Red]

I guess if nothing else, we have learned why Matador Red won't ever get hired by Apple.

Oooooo, burn. What will I do?

Actually, you are right. I will never work for apple because I am one of a dying breed of designers that still considers the product as a whole. I care about a products function and usability and not just making art. I care about the experience. A lot of ID students today just want to be artists or stylists but that isn't the only thing we do. I would not blindly follow some misguided need to slim down a product that doesn't need to be slimmer if it required sacrificing performance. Do you think they should start crippling the iMac to make it thinner? Product design is a balance and I for one think the current iMac strikes a great balance. It seems like you would push the product line closer to a MBA on a stand. If apple did that and dropped the Mac pro they would basically be turning their back on creative professionals like myself. I love apple toys but I still need a solid computer to do actual work.

Of course, with all that said, I want to thank you Occamsrazr and all the others out there that absolutely need the latest, greatest, thinnest and most expensive. Similar to someone else that posted, your blind need for what's new pays my bills. So thanks for that.

 

[russofris]

do web pages today load any faster than web pages of 1995?

As someone that used the internet frequently in 95, I know the answer for this to be "Yes". In 95, you would click a site, have a raw-text-skeleton site appear, and then all of the binary bits (pictures) would slowly draw in two at a time. It was nothing like the experience today.

Your point stands however. The majority of functions that an ODD serves have been superseded by newer emergent tech. Streaming and App stores have replaced ODDs as a means of distribution. Data portability has been replaced by hand-held devices and flash based storage. You no longer burn a CD containing music for your car, you just bring your iPhone and plug it in to your car stereo and tell Siri to "kick it".

I understand that there are corner cases where emergent technology has not filled the gap, and I understand that some customers need to support legacy institutions. For this, an external optical drive seems like a good compromise. For the rest of us, an internal ODD is an unused burden.

F

 

[forty2j]

For the rest of us, an internal ODD is an unused burden.

In what way is it a burden? Are the Thunberbolt port you never use, and the SD card slot you never use, also burdens?

 

[Stolz25]

If you need an optical drive for those times you use it once or twice a year, Apple sells an accessory for that.

I use mine to rip dvds a couple times a week.

Maybe, but I think the highest grossing movies were made within the last few years..

That's probably true, but that doesn't change my statement. If most of the movies are crap the few decent ones are going to be extremely high grossing.

Well the simple fact is Netflix were willing to get rid of DVD's, so obviously a majority of their rentals were from streaming. So much so that they were willing to get rid of their DVD's.

First, that would be tough to say, since at the time the plans were combined. I used streaming when it was included in my DVD plan but I dropped it when they broke the plans up. And a lot of other people did too.

Second, it really makes no sense. Their streaming selection absolutely sucks. If you want to watch 50 year old movies or last season's TV shows (which is what I use it for) it's fine, but if you want to see a fairly recent release, good luck.

Heck, if I go to "new" releases in the streaming section right now I still see Limitless (which has been on the list for a good 6 months). And surrounding that a bunch of crap I've never heard of.

My point is that: "no one protests [an] added service." People will argue against cutting features, but not against added features. Just because a feature is still here doesn't mean that a "majority of people" use it. You have no support, thus your statements are grandiose.

I never said that just because a feature was still here that the majority of people use it. But I suppose it's easier to argue against a strawman than the real argument.

That's your perspective. The Apple TV forum will beg to differ. Apple TV is arguably the best accessory for iDevices and soon Macs (when Mountain Lion goes commercial).

Agreed, but that depends on people forking over a few hundred more for an iDevice or several thousand for a mac. As I said, I use it, but it's hardly the solution for everyone.

It's a portable-put-anything-on-your-big-screen,-anything-to-your-digital-speakers box.

This is untrue. Several of my favorite apps (HBOgo for instance) don't allow you to airplay. And if what I want to watch is my DVD then apple tv isn't going to help.

I don't see a downside to this $99, it is probably one of the better deals from Apple. I don't think you can do better with $99, besides food.. LOL.

By itself the apple tv is a $99 media streamer, and there are cheaper options out there. Heck, the Roku can stream amazon, netflix and about 500 other things the apple tv can't do. And it's cheaper. The only reason I use apple tv over that is because of my personal media collection. Which is on DVD. Which I ripped to watch on my apple tv.

It's great your computer is so fast. You should get that checked out, it sounds like you got a lemon. iTunes hasn't crashed yet, and I'm using a 3-year-old Asus EEE right now.

I built it, and the only thing that has a problem on it at all is iTunes. It can easily run one of the most advanced CAD systems they make, but iTunes kills it. The reason is that the iTunes library I have is on a NAS, which iTunes doesn't seem to like (though why it matters is beyond me). And my iTunes library consists of several terabytes of data as well.

Your desk maybe, but a lot of you (not you specifically, but many people talking about desk space) is not acknowledging the fact that not every place in the world has as much desk space as you have in the United States.

No, an inch off of an iMac isn't a lot, but it's a start. It's not about what the inch does now, it's about what it can do in the future.

An inch is an inch, now or in the future. And you probably aren't even going to get an inch. I don't think the superdrive is that thick.

 

[mrmarts]

If the design looks like that I can live with my iMac for a couple more years, i don't get why would people want thiness it just sits there on your desk. Now a MacBook is different as you carry it around and can better see all angles.

 

[cocky jeremy]

I can't wait to figure out how to install Windows on Bootcamp without an ODD. I know it's possible, but it's far from convenient. (And it will also cost me twice as much as getting an OEM disc.) And for those of us with strong internet connections, all we're talking about is convenience. If Apple wants to shave 5mm off the thickness (which would have no impact on the base size) to inconvenience me, I'll be very disappointed.

For people who live in the 75% of the populated world without good broadband internet (ok, this is a guess - but consider that outside of the US, western Europe, and coastal Asia, it's uncommon - and there are even wide swaths of the US that are lacking), suggesting they should be satisfied with digital downloads is just silly. And suggesting they all should buy externals is also silly. You seriously lose the point of an all-in-one.

As far as internet, Apple can't wait for the whole world to have decent internet. Otherwise we'd have no online video or streaming, it'd still be small 5 MB files because somewhere in BFE has slow internet. Who says they won't replace the ODD with something else? Who says it has to be taken out only to make it thinner? You can install Windows via a flash drive. Flash drives are extremely cheap now. Like i said, if you need one that buy, buy an external drive. The way it seems, half of you guys probably have an external floppy drive still. Technology advances, and you're best off advancing with it.

 

[russofris]

In what way is it a burden? Are the Thunberbolt port you never use, and the SD card slot you never use, also burdens?

As previously stated:

1: It's a mechanical part and prone to failure, and lowers the life expectancy and resale value of my PC.
2: It's unused real-estate that can be repurposed for emergent tech or improvements to contemporary tech.
3: It's a place for my son to insert Cheerios.
4: It occasionally makes my iMac sound like a motorboat.

When I say burdensome, it's not like I'm pushing a rock up a hill, it's burdensome in the same manner in which my unused Exercise-Bike encumbers me. It's unused, it's been superseded by new tech, it takes up space in my rec-room, etc.

Every May, I have a yard sale, and I have yet to find someone that will buy the thing. It's not that it doesn't work anymore, it's just that there are better and fuller-featured alternatives for those that are not competitive cyclists. I need to find a niche buyer.

ODD users can go one of two ways. They can embrace emergent tech, or they can procure an alternative (external drive, duplicator, etc).

Regarding your second question. Thunderbolt is an external interconnect and cannot be compared to this situation. A direct comparison can be drawn to an SD slot though, and I would be content if it were to go away.

Ultimately, I would like us to get to the point where there is a single physical interconnect, as I dislike the entire USB/Firewire/Thunderbolt/DP/HDMI/SPDIF conundrum. Thunderbolt is the emergent tech that is positioned to solve this problem, as you can extend the PCI(E) bus externally. This means that all wired peripherals (monitors, audio devices, data acquisition devices such as scanners and tvtuners, and printers) could all use the same cabling, the same connector, etc. This is where we should be in 5 years. Low data-density peripherals (keyboard, mouse, phone, camera) will connect/sync wirelessly. High data-density devices (monitor, scanner, etc) will be wired via thunderbolt.

As a plus, there will be only one orifice in which my son can stuff cheerios into, and it will be relatively inaccessible.

F

 

[jigsb007]

I don't understand this obsession with a thinner iMac.

I, personally, will be extremely angry if Apple remove the optical drive to make the iMac a little thinner. The iMac is a DESKTOP COMPUTER. Sure, less people are using CDs but they are in no means deprecated, not for another few years at least. I want an optical drive and I do not want unnecessary clutter i.e. an external optical drive on my desk.

If you want thinner, get a MacBook.

Totally agree with you... we need iMac with an optical drive.

 

[forty2j]

As far as internet, Apple can't wait for the whole world to have decent internet. Otherwise we'd have no online video or streaming, it'd still be small 5 MB files because somewhere in BFE has slow internet. Who says they won't replace the ODD with something else? Who says it has to be taken out only to make it thinner? You can install Windows via a flash drive. Flash drives are extremely cheap now. Like i said, if you need one that buy, buy an external drive. The way it seems, half of you guys probably have an external floppy drive still. Technology advances, and you're best off advancing with it.

Your argument amounts to "complete multivitamins are now available, so humans should come without stomachs".

There's a world of difference between using emergent tech, and forcing it in areas where it isn't ready.

 

[russofris]

I can't wait to figure out how to install Windows on Bootcamp without an ODD.

From experience, it's exactly the same as installing Windows with an ODD, but with a USB stick. Kinda like what Apple did with 10.7.3 (no optical disk, it comes on a USB drive).

F

 

[forty2j]

As previously stated:

1: It's a mechanical part and prone to failure, and lowers the life expectancy and resale value of my PC.
2: It's unused real-estate that can be repurposed for emergent tech or improvements to contemporary tech.
3: It's a place for my son to insert Cheerios.
4: It occasionally makes my iMac sound like a motorboat.

In what way would it fail, if you never used it? How would you even know if it failed? It should never even be spinning up if there's nothing in it.

As already discussed, there honestly isn't much they could do with the space. 3rd internal drive? You can't use it for a desktop GPU, you still need to add thickness. And you just "spread out" the other components, the thickness reduction wouldn't amount to additional usable desk space.

Your most compelling argument might possibly be Cheerios. For that, might I recommend clear packing tape, since you don't use the drive. ;-)

----------

From experience, it's exactly the same as installing Windows with an ODD, but with a USB stick. Kinda like what Apple did with 10.7.3 (no optical disk, it comes on a USB drive).

F

I did some research on this, and it seems to involve spending $200 on an ISO (vs. $100 on an OEM DVD), downloading it, and using some tool (that looked like it might require Windows itself) to get that ISO onto a USB stick properly? I haven't seen anywhere that I can just buy a USB stick with the OS on it.

 

[russofris]

Totally agree with you... we need iMac with an optical drive.

Removing the internal drive does nothing to prevent you from using an ODD with an iMac. While I will agree that comparisons to the removal of FDD are misaligned because they were rarely used for media distribution, a direct comparison can be made to cassette tape. ODDs superseded cassette tape. Cassette tapes were used for both media and binary distribution. During the sunset years of cassette, personal computers made use of external cassette peripherals rather than encumbering customers with built-in readers.

We're not arguing about whether iMacs should have an ODD, we're arguing about whether it should be internal/required versus external/optional.

 

[Occamsrazr]

LOL, none of the ODD supporters are complaining about a lack of bluray.

You guys are just afraid of losing something. If Apple had adopted bluray, then you'd be freaking out at the proposition of losing that. But since they didn't, you aren't even bothered by it.

OWNED