New U.S. Antitrust Bill Would Require Apple and Google to Allow Third-Party App Stores and Sideloading

[dk001]

Epic specifically called out the difficulties of side-loading on Android and that is why they are also suing Google. If it was easy, they could just avoid Google's 30% cut entirely.

Epic is suing Google over Fortnite’s removal from the Google Play Store

Apple was just round one

www.theverge.com

“After 18 months of operating Fortnite on Android outside of the Google Play Store, we’ve come to a basic realization,” the company said at the time, “Google puts software downloadable outside of Google Play at a disadvantage.”

I am not quite sure what Epic is complaining about. Took me about 60 seconds to install F-Droid and Aurora stores on a new device.

 

[dk001]

Epic says it’s too difficult to launch a side-loaded app. Is it? That’s their claim any way. I don’t use Android and don’t know if that has any merit. Epic’s end goal is to be allowed to have Fortnite on the Google Play Store with an alternate payment system, so they have an incentive to say “but side-loading isn’t a fair or viable workaround.”

See my post above …

 

[Ethosik]

I am not quite sure what Epic is complaining about. Took me about 60 seconds to install F-Droid and Aurora stores on a new device.

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't like how Epic is handling this whole situation. I guess Epic won't be happy until there is a screen when you first start up your new device asking if you want to side load.

 

[vipergts2207]

They had to bring Fortnite back to the Play Store after it was off it for 18 months due to low amount of downloads.

That doesn’t address whether the low amount of downloads was because it’s actually difficult to download and use side-loaded apps or because folks just didn’t want to go outside of the Play Store. The former would potentially be a problem for Google operating in an anti-competitive manner, the latter would solely be Epic’s problem.

 

[Ethosik]

That doesn’t address whether the low amount of downloads was because it’s actually difficult to download and use side-loaded apps or because folks just didn’t want to go outside of the Play Store. The former would potentially be a problem for Google operating in an anti-competitive manner, the latter would solely be Epic’s problem.

They said they were at a significant disadvantage not being on the play store. Users received too many notices about side loading and security dialogs.

"For security reasons, your phone is set to block installation of unknown apps. Go to Settings.". That is enough of a barrier to limit the downloads you receive. General users will just move on to something else instead.

 

[Michael Scrip]

If this bill passes... would it allow me to open my own store and sell skins for Fortnite? Outside of the Epic Games Store?

Click here to purchases MBucks... (Michael Bucks)

 

[Absolute Trainwreck]

Sweet, I look forward to seeing this come to fruition one day. It does look like we’re honing in on having this be allowed one day. Bad for megacorp apple and their arcade product, good for consumers who value choice.

 

[vipergts2207]

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't like how Epic is handling this whole situation. I guess Epic won't be happy until there is a screen when you first start up your new device asking if you want to side load.

If you recognize Epic’s arguments as being disingenuous, then why are you yourself using them?

They said they were at a significant disadvantage not being on the play store. Users received too many notices about side loading and security dialogs.

"For security reasons, your phone is set to block installation of unknown apps. Go to Settings.". That is enough of a barrier to limit the downloads you receive. General users will just move on to something else instead.

A user who is too incompetent to flip a toggle to allow side-loading is exactly the kind of person who shouldn’t be side-loading apps in the first place. That’s still an Epic problem though. If Google is intentionally making side-loading a PITA, that behavior may be their problem. This wouldn’t even be an issue if developers can price differently on different stores. Going through Apple or Google Play? Ok that’s fine pay full price as part of the 'curation experience'. Want to go through a different app store or download directly from Epic? Here, have a 15% discount, saving the consumer money and allowing Epic to keep more than they would through the app store.

 

[dk001]

They said they were at a significant disadvantage not being on the play store. Users received too many notices about side loading and security dialogs.

"For security reasons, your phone is set to block installation of unknown apps. Go to Settings.". That is enough of a barrier to limit the downloads you receive. General users will just move on to something else instead.

@vipergts2207

After reading about Epic I have to scratch my head.

For side loading…
I literally went to the F-Droid site, dowloaded and installed the apk. Settings asked me if I wanted to grant them permission - allow installs from them - and then signed into my account on that store. Literally just a few clicks and a login. The sites pretty much walk you through it. Works just like any other app store. Other Store installs worked pretty much the same way.

Now other Android devices may have software that affects the install, making it more difficult or even easier.

So now I have 4 app stores on my device: Google, FDroid, Aurora, and Amazon. I mostly use these for apps Google does not allow for whatever reason and for legacy apps not found on Google play any more.

This is far from the legacy side-load days.

 

[rhyzome]

Cool. Apple will now have to hire even more people to man their Genius Bars when people bring in malware laden iPhones and go "I sideloaded this game...but it mess it up with Moose porn malware...fix it..."

Apply for a job now, they're going to need it!

This is my biggest concern. How tf will iOS and MacOS remain (relatively) virus/malware free when you can install anything from anywhere?

 

[m4mario]

Ya. Developers can distribute their apps through any means, as long as they don’t use free Apple tools like XCode, Swift, SwiftUI, Core Data, camera kit, music kit or anything like that. They are all Apple proprietary technologies after all. Why should Apple give away its technologies for free? Developers are free to use the open HTML 5 platform that Apple supports, if they want to bypass the App Store.

 

[Michael Scrip]

This is my biggest concern. How tf will iOS and MacOS remain (relatively) virus/malware free when you can install anything from anywhere?

I'm sure you'll still have to build your apps using Apple's tools and SDKs.

So I'm guessing Apple will have special rules and a super-sandbox for apps that will be sold on different stores.

Or... you won't be allowed to get full access to certain system functions unless your app comes from the Official App Store.

 

[Wildkraut]

Can't due to the other restrictions on Community edition.

Well :/ , but for most use-cases it should be enough. What is the restriction? There might be workarounds…

 

[citysnaps]

This is my biggest concern. How tf will iOS and MacOS remain (relatively) virus/malware free when you can install anything from anywhere?

For sure on that.

Apple needs to make it very clear they are not responsible for any damages (privacy breaches, malware, ransomware, damaged or bricked phones, etc.) incurred by side-loaded or alternate store installed apps.

Those issues must now be the responsibility of the iPhone user. Bad decisions, bad consequences.

It will be a wake-up call for those not used to having to take responsibility for their actions.

 

[incoherent_1]

Always fun when a bunch of technologically incompetent old men try to regulate one of the most complex industries in the world through brute force.

 

[Sciomar]

If this bill passes... would it allow me to open my own store and sell skins for Fortnite? Outside of the Epic Games Store?

Click here to purchases MBucks... (Michael Bucks)

Apple should try to do this through a subsidiary and then bring the full weight of the company when/if it went to court, that would be some entertaining reading.

 

[4nNtt]

This is going to shake the gaming market because then xbox, playstation and steam are going to have to make changes too!

Why steam?

 

[redheeler]

Both the iOS and Android app stores take too much of a cut from developers. Something like 10% would be more reasonable and still bring in plenty of revenue to support / maintain the stores. Apple especially should not be taking more than 10% as they already charge a yearly fee to developers, but both Google and Apple have absolutely no incentive to lower the amount while they own a monopoly on app stores. This legislation is a good idea as it puts some power back into the hands of smaller developers who are the ones most affected by these large chunks that Apple and Google take from their earnings.

 

[vipergts2207]

This is my biggest concern. How tf will iOS and MacOS remain (relatively) virus/malware free when you can install anything from anywhere?

How did we survive the first 30 years of internet-based computing?

 

[GreenPixel]

Then don’t sideload apps or install apps from any source other than Apple, if it makes you feel better. If a developer refuses to make their app available through Apple’s store, either deal with it or refuse to do business with them. Problem solved.

This argument, of course, is the same form the other side. If Apple doesn't allow side loading and third party stores, then deal with it or refuse to do business with them. While I think 3rd party stores is a good idea, I do not think they should be forced to modify their product. The idea that a company should not be allowed to have a "monopoly" on their own product is ludicrous.

 

[I7guy]

Are you under the strange impression that governments don’t already regulate businesses, marketplaces, and the economy at large? You don’t think a marketplace involving tens of billions of dollars deserves scrutiny? The app store’s revenue is in the same league as AT&T’s when they were broken up.

Exactly. And how did that ATT breakup work out for consumers? Low cell phone plan prices with unlimited and unthrottled coverage? A multitude of providers to choose from? Great coverage all over the US? Verizon didn't even finish wiring FIOS and they got away with it. The governments track record here is zero.

Regulations should be there to force companies to ensure they are complying with current laws...not act like Monday morning quarterbacks and micro-regulate business practices. But I suppose we will never agree on this.

 

[vipergts2207]

This argument, of course, is the same form the other side. If Apple doesn't allow side loading and third party stores, then deal with it or refuse to do business with them. While I think 3rd party stores is a good idea, I do not think they should be forced to modify their product. The idea that a company should not be allowed to have a "monopoly" on their own product is ludicrous.

That's literally the point of anti-trust laws. Standard Oil's product was oil. AT&T's was telephone service.

 

[Michael Scrip]

That's literally the point of anti-trust laws. Standard Oil's product was oil. AT&T's was telephone service.

And the App Store's product is... apps?

But don't the apps themselves have competition among each other? My calendar app versus a dozen other calendar apps?

Sure... there's only one store. But it's still a vibrant marketplace with a million apps.

I'm having a hard time imagining what I'd gain from putting my calendar app on different app stores that won't have nearly the userbase of the Official Apple App Store.

And what if Apple is forced to allow alternative app stores... but those other app stores all suck and they go out of business? Then what?

 

[bobenhaus]

Do you guys hear that distance sound ??! Its the world smallest violin.

 

[vipergts2207]

Exactly. And how did that ATT breakup work out for consumers? Low cell phone plan prices with unlimited and unthrottled coverage? A multitude of providers to choose from? Great coverage all over the US? Verizon didn't even finish wiring FIOS and they got away with it. The governments track record here is zero.

Regulations should be there to force companies to ensure they are complying with current laws...not act like Monday morning quarterbacks and micro-regulate business practices. But I suppose we will never agree on this.

We've been over this before and you didn't address what I had said, but perhaps you will this time. You're complaining about the current mobile service options not being consumer friendly while ignoring that the original AT&T that was broken up 40 years ago have largely been allowed to re-agglomerate into the modern AT&T and Verizon, controlling almost 3/4 of the U.S. market. AT&T is now made up of what were formerly the baby bells of Bellsouth, AT&T Corp, Ameritech, Pacific Telesis, and Southwestern Bell. Verizon is made up of Bell Atlantic and NYNEX. Your argument makes no sense because it's premised on a reality that no longer exists. As far as Verizon not finishing FIOS, I fully agree they should be punished for that.

If current laws and regulations are insufficient to create the intended results, new laws and regulations can be created, which is what is going on here.