New U.S. Antitrust Bill Would Require Apple and Google to Allow Third-Party App Stores and Sideloading

[Analog Kid]

You're exhausting.

I don't know what to tell you friend -- I've been literally around this ecosystem for decades and observed it over and over again (it's not just apps, but features of some - some stuff pulled from jailbreak ecosystem)

Let's move on. I don't need to prove to you what I actually literally "know"

Again, the point I'm disputing is that the AppStore was constantly used as a tool to delay or deny an app and steal its features into the core OS. Your untapped knowledge notwithstanding, that claim is still without basis.

Maybe you realize that, or maybe you just decided to argue with me without actually looking at what I was replying to or reading my replies since.

 

[Analog Kid]

I enjoy sarcasm as much as the next person, but the hysterics over the curated experience disappearing is unfounded based upon real world examples.

The fact that you feel there are real world examples just stands as evidence that there's no reason to tear down the one system that's different. What you want exists. Go get it.

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

There are plenty of ways around this if Apple wanted to avoid opening up iOS. The nuclear option would be to just shut down the App Store completely and revert to an iPhone OS 1.0 policy of running web apps. This wouldn’t affect most users who just install Instagram and Facebook alongside their default apps.

They then stick a big middle finger up and the government and blame them for making Apple choose between the privacy and security of its users* or being told what to do by the government. You watch the voter rebellion there. They could keep Apple Arcade but take the financial hit and offer it to users for free whilst still offering developers an incentive. Therefore games do not become affected by the decision.

The obvious option would be to spin off the App Store into its own company no longer maintained by Apple. This would mean they have opened their iOS platform up to a ‘3rd party’ App Store but signed an exclusivity agreement with them just like a manufacturer might have an exclusivity agreement with Wal-mart. Apple would no longer be a gatekeeper in this sense.

 

[Wildkraut]

Oh what are you going to do now Apple?

Speaking of sideloading, can a developer tap into that locally hashed scans?

Let the can of worms open.

No because it’s “build into” iOS, it’s unbreakable.(said Apple)!

 

[Abazigal]

Oh what are you going to do now Apple?

Fight and tie this matter up in the courts for as long as they can, I suppose. I am guessing it’s at least 4-5 years before we see Apple having to take any sort of concrete action on the matter. Who knows what the mobile landscape will look like by then.

 

[coredev]

Cool. Apple will now have to hire even more people to man their Genius Bars when people bring in malware laden iPhones and go "I sideloaded this game...but it mess it up with Moose porn malware...fix it..."

Apply for a job now, they're going to need it!

Apple will probably not do this, refuse fixing peoples mess with sideloaded crap. Which then results in Apple as a brand losing it's power. It's all going downhill if this bill passes.
And for the developers being paid more, forget it. Most likely prices will go up for apps because pirating will be possible for way more people than it is now, and devs will still earn less.
I really cannot see this as a win situation for anyone.

 

[Wildkraut]

Who’s going to pay the third party App Store to host your app?
Are you? Or do you think it will be charity?

Building an AppStore is a no-brainer, gimme a week or two and i’ll build a technically working one, add a bit more for cosmetics. Building and offering an IPA which includes a self-updating mechanism is a no-brainer, too. CDN costs are not that high, one of my CDN servers costs 15€ per month, even has a unlimited data plan. The count of required servers is based on the popularity and download of your App, and can be automatically turned on/off on-the-fly and demand, these are not static costs. We could even go the bitorrent route and offer Apps downloads through P2P, just like many Linux Distributions are doing, it’s not a security risk.

 

[Wildkraut]

I’m also looking forward to the “Return Of App Deals Tracking Apps”(Sounds like a Star Wars movie title), which Apple killed in favor of their AppStore.
They did this mainly to stop customers from downloading temporarily discounted Apps timely, simply because App Deals means less money for Apple.

 

[Wildkraut]

Fight and tie this matter up in the courts for as long as they can, I suppose. I am guessing it’s at least 4-5 years before we see Apple having to take any sort of concrete action on the matter. Who knows what the mobile landscape will look like by then.

I say 2-3 years, but the mobile landscape won’t look much different with Apples lock-in tactics, just like it didn’t change the last 10 years.

 

[tennisproha]

I don’t like it because of the open risk it creates from malware. I’d rather them pass a bill forcing Apple to lax it’s ridiculous App Store rules.

 

[bobbie424242]

Finally the Apple/Google extortion app store mafias are addressed. This should have happened years ago.
I want to see the handful of Apple godfather execs controlling app economy melt in rage the day it happens.
Developers have been Apple/Google bitches for so long...

 

[Robert.Walter]

Will these senators take the responsibility for the malware injury that iOS users will inevitably suffer when they are forced to side load because developers abandon the App Store?

No? I’m not surprised.

And all those numbskulls extolling the virtues of developers capturing more of the revenue pie from side loading, just imagine how much revenue devs will lose when users download pirated copies for free.

 

[Ethrem]

I think people are blowing this way out of proportion. Devs will still publish in the App Store, this will just force Apple to lower their cut, plain and simple.

Android has had alternative app stores for ages and I can’t think of a single instance where I was forced to use one. Apps not available on the Play Store you can just grab the APK directly from the dev’s website, GitHub, or wherever else they host it. Worst case scenario you go to a trusted website like APK Mirror but other than stuff Google doesn’t allow in the Play Store like ad blockers, I never had to deal with that when I was on Android and it’s even less likely that devs will leave the comfort of the App Store on iOS.

 

[amartinez1660]

Who’s going to pay the third party App Store to host your app?
Are you? Or do you think it will be charity?

What the heck is going on here…
In those previous two messages examples I wouldn’t be hosting on a third party app store, only Apple’s AppStore. I wouldn’t be skipping nor asking for free rides to them either (as clearly stated in the previous message).

I’m actually quite uneasy at the blatant avoidance of the question at hand: which is on the ability to allow side loading of an app or not
(not where it is hosted) at the app permissions level itself (if such a thing exists or could exist).

Can’t bold emphasize anymore than that.

No need to reply, your suggestions or contributions are on the “keep on dreaming charity third party store” rants.

 

[BuddyRich]

Will the government next force Walmart to allow Target to advertise their own products and install their own cash registers in Walmart stores?

Thats a dubious comparrison. The App store is Walmart not iOS itself. iOS is more akin to vacant land and Apple is saying no one can build their own store.

 

[Dkka1]

Good. About time.

 

[H2SO4]

One more thing... it seems many people are not able to see beyond the tip of their noses:

I doubt these "alternative app stores" will host apps for free. There's an expense hosting and maintaining an AppStore.
And on top of that, they will need to make money.
And starting small means they will need to charge developers to host their apps a reasonable percentage of the revenue.
And do you think they will be interested in hosting your free apps, if they make no money? I doubt it!

And now add the costs to market the apps.

It's a terrible idea many will regret later when they realize they have shot their own foot.

Will these people still be able to buy from the 'Official' App Store?

 

[wbeasley]

Then don’t sideload apps or install apps from any source other than Apple, if it makes you feel better. If a developer refuses to make their app available through Apple’s store, either deal with it or refuse to do business with them. Problem solved.

so everyone who wants a sideloaded app or alternative app store, are you willing to forego all Apple stuff?

if I was Apple and made to do this, I would say "OK but you then dont get the rest". basically treat it as sanctioned springboarding. give you the tools to wipe and install your own OS. go your own way but then you rely on the alternative for everything. see how long that last and how many people go boots and all. few i bet. especially if core functions dont transition.

let people have access to their owned hardware.
but protect everyone else from interacting with potentially infected software by not coexisting.

 

[PlayUltimate]

Apple can avoid all of this be closing the open App Store. Developers will no longer be allowed to develop freely for iOS. Instead Apple will create a closed marketplace of only "branded" apps; similar to the "unique" products that are sold at Trader Joes. Development will still take place but in a more limited sense.

Further, not sure how this will be a cornucopia for small developers. Currently there is a built-in trust for every app that is available on the App Store. Thus, I can install new and obscure apps with some confidence that it would not compromise my system. Would that same level of trust exist for new apps that are available on other app stores?
For those using the argument about the "openness" of MacOS, how many MacOS apps does the average user install compared to iOS apps? Further, the development tools will need to increase in price to cover the actual costs. And, IMO, the iOS development space will likely consolidate around a small handful of large and "trusted" devs. The little guy will likely, as before, lose out.

But, as others have said, this proposed bill will likely never become law.

 

[jimbobb24]

The practical take on this is that politicians just want more of the Apple and tech pie. They want Apple to donate more and lobby them more. They want Apple to be “part of the process”. And this makes it look like they are doing this in the name of “markets” which of course is to lol. Just a reminder markets are only as free as the people want them to be and the govt wants them to be. If you work hard and build a platform and business the govt can just take it away. This may destroy many platform models on dedicated devices. I think that’s bad, some see it as good. But what we have now works so well it’s going to be hard to improve it.

 

[PlayUltimate]

That's a specious argument and you know it.
Apple sold you a phone.
This means that Apple can't control your phone and what you install.

You may own the hardware. . .They did not sell you the OS; you only received a restricted license. Do what you want with your hardware.

 

[wbeasley]

so part of my job is handling support calls for phone apps.

iphones are easy, usually have latest OS version and the app settings easy to find.

Android users, multiple hardware vendors, old OS versions people dont/cant update, each UI skin renames and moves items around. have to say "do you see a Memory or Data Storage or app setting or similar item somewhere?"
takes much longer to sift through their issues.
and sometimes, nothing works to make our vendor's app run. the phone owner modified some setting somewhere that only a clean install would fix and they havent backed up their photos anywhere... so it just doesnt happen.

i'll take the walled garden every time.

 

[visualseed]

Who’s going to pay the third party App Store to host your app?
Are you? Or do you think it will be charity?

A company like Facebook would certainly host your third party app in their store for “free” in exchange for you using their “free” frameworks in your app.

 

[Ethosik]

I assume Affinity Photo would be on both. Maybe just 30% cheaper on their website for those to chose to go direct.

You ASSUME, you cannot guarantee it. And the way Epic is handling things on the PC side it would not surprise me to have them purchase exclusivity rights on popular apps.

 

[Ethosik]

This should already be how it is on Android then, correct?

If I recall correctly, Epic is also suing Google because its too difficult to side-load on Android.