LOL everyone wants Scott now. When Timmy fired him everyone forgot who Scott actually is, and bullied him for doing a great job with the iPhone UI.
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New Video Pits iPhone Click Wheel Prototype Against Scott Forstall's Icon-Based iPhone Prototype
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I liked Scott. He always seemed to have a jobs-esque kinda vibe about him (the good and the bad). It's a shame he's gone as i think Apple needs people with strong voices that say it how they see it, and clearly the guy had vision!
From what i can see Tim's way is to just simply sack everyone who is rocking the boat (i.e. disagrees with him or Ive). Steve used to rock the boat deliberately to see what would happen and keep everyone on their toes. It's a fine line, but i think there needs to be a bit of open friction in any creative endeavour.
From what i can see Tim's way is to just simply sack everyone who is rocking the boat (i.e. disagrees with him or Ive). Steve used to rock the boat deliberately to see what would happen and keep everyone on their toes. It's a fine line, but i think there needs to be a bit of open friction in any creative endeavour.
Though ironically seems like Forestall was the closest to jobs in regards to having a vision and similar personality , while Ives can only do thinner and thinner now, lest said about his software management the better.
For me it seems cook cannot handle friction , something jobs thrived on, so created his life boat and probably got rid of the only person with a vision to innovate. Really not impressed by Ives post jobs , saw him design a Leica which prooved he has no idea about usability and is form over substance ...
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Markerting is making the decisions . Every year iOS and macOS launch in a mess of bugs, if it was upto the software team they would not be signing up to this unrealistic 12 month markerting pitch.
As always blame the software guys cause product and marketing are muppets.
Neat demo. It shows the leap of faith Apple had on P2, considering P1 was probably easier to launch as it's practically done (as iPods).
Interesting reading the armchair CEOs comments here. I remembered how everybody were making fun of Scott back then, especially the skeumorphism. Considering the way UI design is today on Android and Windows, iOS6-style UI will look extremely dated.
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I see it on a different way. Creating the 12-month cycle, although seems draconian, it forces Apple to be agile. Remember, the competition is Google, who throw away alpha/beta software out there willy nilly, and deal with the issues later. Apple has to be as agile. Heck, even Microsoft is moving towards the same route, as they know they will be left behind if they were stuck in the longer product cycle.
Interesting reading the armchair CEOs comments here. I remembered how everybody were making fun of Scott back then, especially the skeumorphism. Considering the way UI design is today on Android and Windows, iOS6-style UI will look extremely dated.
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Steve Jobs is a marketing guy. The software guy was Woz, not Jobs.
I see it on a different way. Creating the 12-month cycle, although seems draconian, it forces Apple to be agile. Remember, the competition is Google, who throw away alpha/beta software out there willy nilly, and deal with the issues later. Apple has to be as agile. Heck, even Microsoft is moving towards the same route, as they know they will be left behind if they were stuck in the longer product cycle.
My windows 10 is more stable than macOS . This is not agile , it's marketing . Agile is also one of most abused terms these days.
Stick a Strong Arm processor in that thing and I'm sold
So? My Surface Pro 4 and Lenovo laptop have more quirks than my Macs. Nothing to do with the discussion.
Microsoft is moving to a quicker lifecycle for Windows as well. Windows 10 is the last version of Windows. We will only see yearly updates from now on (Anniversary update, creator update, etc). Office 365 also has more frequent feature updates. It's the new normal. You either adapt, or die.
Again, Steve Jobs is a marketing guy. This is the guy that many of you keep praising while criticizing marketing. Ironic.
I don't know many makerting guys with product vision, but sure he was just a another marketing guy.... and Bill Gates was just a developer right?
Bill Gates? WTF?
Okay I'm done. Just keep living in your bubble or pretentious. Stop buying Apple products post Jobs/Forstall if you don't like them. That's all I have to say.
Oh, man. It was so sad seeing how that site deteriorated before it was fully taken offline. It was years before I removed the bookmark. I just kept hoping it would return to it's old function at some point.
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Bring it on
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bring-back-forstall
Bring it on
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Like you know them so well eh? Forstall was a motor mouth who thought he was as important as Jobs or Ives. One can see his arrogance during his presentations. This is based purely on his stage presence, I don't think anyone here can say what he was like behind the public eye, but I reckon he was a royal pain in the ass.
well, releasing Maps as they were (and not standing up to your mistakes) is akin to releasing a prototype version seen in this video.
Funny how people believe they know the person when they never have spoken to them.
Regardless of why Forstall left the company, it would be interesting if he returned to help innovate or at least shake the boat a little. Again, I don't know, but I think Apple needs something.
I remember a few times when I was working in teams for projects. There was always a few or one person who was a pain in the A**. If you got rid of them, the team seem to be missing something, even though that person the team would rather not have on the team.
I believe this was the case with Forstall. The mix worked, but without Jobs to manage the animals, it probably got out-of-hand.
If Forstall was back at Apple...minus the schisms..
Humm...maybe..
Regardless of why Forstall left the company, it would be interesting if he returned to help innovate or at least shake the boat a little. Again, I don't know, but I think Apple needs something.
I remember a few times when I was working in teams for projects. There was always a few or one person who was a pain in the A**. If you got rid of them, the team seem to be missing something, even though that person the team would rather not have on the team.
I believe this was the case with Forstall. The mix worked, but without Jobs to manage the animals, it probably got out-of-hand.
If Forstall was back at Apple...minus the schisms..
Humm...maybe..
Why wouldn't the decision be on Cook? The motivation behind apple maps was to get Google off the iPhone, that would have been a decision driven by the CEO not a software manager.
a tripod, or even a tabletop with some books to place the camera, would not have been frowned upon
For the record, Forstall was more important than Ives. Ives developed industrial design cases that met Steve's ideals. He didn't introduce cases and Steve went, ``that's perfect!'' No, there is an entire building full of failed Ive designs. Steve found a `kindred' spirit industrial designer who could produce what he envisioned, not the other way around. Scott was one of the key architects on Openstep.
Yes, he is brash, but he's also amenable when put in his place. I know. I had my brush ups with him. He was used to wearing 7 hats doing his job. We all were at NeXT. When we merged with Apple we couldn't believe how little the average person did at Apple and still bitched it was too much work. That changed rapidly.
Being a NeXT employee had many perks in so we never were interrogated by Steve when he came back and let go if found our position was redundant. That was the Apple legacy crowd, including Blue Box/Red Box cruft, to the 26 marketing departments he whittled down to 1. Yes, there were individual marketing groups for each product made at Apple. There was also 180 internal applications and the IT Budget was asininely off the charts for people getting paid to make these asinine pet software projects that were never intended to be made into actual consumer products.
In short, NeXT folks saved Apple's bacon and it pissed off a lot of legacy who felt threatened. Steve cancelling the paid 12 week Sabbatical option saw a lot of them venting and he offered them the door. OS 9 was a stop-gap Tevanian oversaw to get out the door while OS X was still in development; and wouldn't be nearly viable for a few more years. The amount of cruft at Apple was insane. Lots of resources were leveraged to actually implement streamlined software development practices as no one at Apple had any worth while UNIX experience. So, the iMac became the center piece to pacify the masses, and the iPod was the lucky grand slam that gave Fadell fame for suggesting it but took Jon Rubinstein and his seasoned experience in hardware at NeXT and HP to pull it off.
Losing Rubinstein, Tevanian, Serlet and more takes a toll on any corporation the size of Apple. The replacements aren't on their level.Sina Tamaddon was also vital in ways none of you know.
The only person able to convince all of them to stay on-board and rebuild Apple was Steve. If he had only remained a technical advisor to Amelio the company would have folded in 6 months.
Steve saw something in people so far outside the IT world, brought them in and they became huge points of presence that no one else could have foreseen becoming. Sina was but one example of it. He did that quite frequently at NeXT. He also had a close knit group of luminaries in SV that he drew upon throughout his life which gave him even more insight into building a company.
Tim isn't a local SV product. It shows in his Compaq Southern personality. He's a behind the scenes man who Steve handpicked because he wouldn't sink the ship. Apple will eventually have to find someone who has vision that adheres to the founding principles of its original founder. But that's not now. They are working on the flag ship campus, Project Titan and so much more, but by all means paint Forstall as if you ever worked around him.
The guy is brilliant and well earned his position. Does he have an ego? Hell yes. Did he dwarf Fadell in talent? Hell yes. Tim Cook is not and never will be Steven P. Jobs. He has a more passive aggressive demeanor and doesn't like people to rock the boat: the exact opposite of Steve who demanded a spine and if you could deliver on your boasts you were well rewarded.
Apple is a global company trying to be all things to all cultures, something Tim has worked very hard at achieving.
Let's see what 2017 has now that the flag ship campus will soon be done and no longer preoccupying keep personnel's attention.
Yeah because no one else has an ego at Apple and was a pain to work with at times...
I disliked some of the old ios design language and especially the stitching which did hold back doing better designed UI.
However I believe forestall was managed out of apple. Given projects that would be impossible to get right and we still don't know if it was his or apples choice to leave.
I think Ive clashed with him purely over UI unifying hardware and software design was a good idea. I suspect being told his design didn't fit with the hardware aesthetic probably sent him over the edge.
It's a real shame they didn't go the whole way and unify macOS as well. It's this weird disjointed mess now. I suspect Ive has his sights on mac now the mac team has been joined with the ios team! If they remove the deeper access to the os though I may have to say goodbye forever to apple.
However I believe forestall was managed out of apple. Given projects that would be impossible to get right and we still don't know if it was his or apples choice to leave.
I think Ive clashed with him purely over UI unifying hardware and software design was a good idea. I suspect being told his design didn't fit with the hardware aesthetic probably sent him over the edge.
It's a real shame they didn't go the whole way and unify macOS as well. It's this weird disjointed mess now. I suspect Ive has his sights on mac now the mac team has been joined with the ios team! If they remove the deeper access to the os though I may have to say goodbye forever to apple.
That's your argument? This doesn't even define what I was referring too. Do you or have you researched the history behind Forstall? I'm guessing not, judging by your reply.