New Video Pits iPhone Click Wheel Prototype Against Scott Forstall's Icon-Based iPhone Prototype

[monstruo]

Though ironically seems like Forestall was the closest to jobs in regards to having a vision and similar personality , while Ives can only do thinner and thinner now, lest said about his software management the better.

Well, it's ironic that Jony is getting larger while he longs for thinner products.

 

[emulator]

Markerting is making the decisions . Every year iOS and macOS launch in a mess of bugs, if it was up to the software team they would not be signing up to this unrealistic 12 month marketing pitch.

As always blame the software guys cause product and marketing are muppets.

If it was up to the software team, a product would never be released!

 

[BruceEBonus]

ClickWheel. At last. Something new to declare instead of years of resized and recoloured iPhone variants. Well done Tim. Can't innovate anymore my arse!

 

[Vorkeyjones]

Tim Cook basically fired Scott Forstall because he was tough to work with and didn't get along with other higher-ups. That's a pretty stupid reason to release the father of iOS. It just shows that Tim doesn't have the same mentality of Steve when it comes to building a team. Steve use to say that friction between members of a team was good and led to better products, but obviously that's not Tim's goal.

As always, this video provides the perfect summary of Tim Cook's Apple.

 

[navier]

starting to feel this crazy feeling that tim cook has this master plan with scott forstall:
forstall clashes with jony and others at Apple, so tim made a deal with forstall that he'll take a long leave of absence until jony and others retire. then by that time, tim (now age 56) will retire and bring back forstall because he's a "product person" like steve. isn't it weird that forstall hasn't accepted a job position anywhere else (of course maybe there's a non-compete clause in his contract) and hasn't talked about why he left/was fired?

Hey! For my part they could retire today... they really don't have to wait until they are 65

 

[pppx3]

Apple is a global company trying to be all things to all cultures, something Tim has worked very hard at achieving.
Let's see what 2017 has now that the flag ship campus will soon be done and no longer preoccupying keep personnel's attention.

Thank you for your post, finally a voice of someone with experience.
I have to say that you are completely right about Tim. He has taken Apple far beyond just products and brought stability.
However, it seems to be that Apple are becoming what they fought against from the beginning... in the classic 1984 ad, Apple where the rebels, the misfits (as Steve said in the Think Different campaign) however, it seems like now, Apple is the "big brother". When the phone in your pocket becomes involved in politics (Apple vs Government with 'privacy') and every move from them is being either copied or critisized and the risk taking is no longer part of Apple's culture, then it really makes me wonder about the future of Apple.

I can't comment on the people who work for/at Apple and I don't know if the decisions made are going to pay off, but I honestly feel that if Apple do more "innovating" and less politics, less hiring and firing then things might be better in the long run for Apple. They must not lose focus on what Apple should be doing and that's creating a user experience with technology that makes you "feel" and empowers your creativity.

It's just a "vibe" but the vibe I get is that MS is more stable and yet at the same time, Innovating and creating exiting product. Apple, not so much. If Steve's favourite artist was Dylan, then the times, they are a changin'.

 

[notrack]

...

For me it seems cook cannot handle friction , something jobs thrived on, so created his life boat and probably got rid of the only person with a vision to innovate. Really not impressed by Ives post jobs , saw him design a Leica which prooved he has no idea about usability and is form over substance ...
...

My thoughts. He was inconvenient for Cook so he had to go.

 

[62tele]

More proof that Tim Cook is clueless for firing Scott Forstall.

I thought Forstall had become a divisive figure at Apple. I believe he is what is referred to as a "temperamental talent". I also thought that he held iOS back with keeping it more closed and less innovative as time went on. It took Apple a long time to adopt even simple features that people loved in Android and wanted in iOS and my understanding was that Forstall was the roadblock. Also skeuomorphism designs were crap. Let's not forget he was in charge of the initial Maps failure and initial shortcomings of Siri as well.
iOS got better after he was canned.

 

[maflynn]

Wow that's amazing and to think they were thinking of using the click wheel prototype because it was used in the iPod. I'm glad they saw the benefit of multitouch and went that route.

 

[trifid]

Tim Cook basically fired Scott Forstall because he was tough to work with and didn't get along with other higher-ups. That's a pretty stupid reason to release the father of iOS. It just shows that Tim doesn't have the same mentality of Steve when it comes to building a team. Steve use to say that friction between members of a team was good and led to better products, but obviously that's not Tim's goal.

As always, this video provides the perfect summary of Tim Cook's Apple.

I think this one is the perfect summary of today's Apple:

 

[Bacillus]

I'm glad they saw the benefit of multitouch and went that route.

That vision is now lacking as they need to create the Next Product: a MacBook/iPad convert that would bind the new generation: 15...25 year olds. Those who grew up with iPads, and now need multi-windowing, file organisation, peripherals and all things beyond iOS.
That generation will never give up on multi-touch and Apple is losing them.
Yes, it will initially cannibalize iPad and MacBook but eventually surpass everything combined.
If this is the PostPC era, they shouldn't alienate customers with an inflative Pro label, the inability to integrate multi-touch into mainstream IT, and underwhelming laptops for crazy prices.
That is sinking to the bottom of both worlds...
[doublepost=1484136488][/doublepost]

I thought Forstall had become a divisive figure at Apple. I believe he is what is referred to as a "temperamental talent". I also thought that he held iOS back with keeping it more closed and less innovative as time went on. It took Apple a long time to adopt even simple features that people loved in Android and wanted in iOS and my understanding was that Forstall was the roadblock. Also skeuomorphism designs were crap. Let's not forget he was in charge of the initial Maps failure and initial shortcomings of Siri as well.
iOS got better after he was canned.

There is soo many ways that you positively/negatively characterize the same person.
Most of this is probably right but could be also said of Steve, Joni etc.
Corporate worlds live from hyperboles, both positive and negative, to get someone in the lift or in a free fall, if a decisive majority desires so.
I would say that the current Board is too lenient to their environment+themselves, and they really need some of Scott/Steve's persistence, but I guess that should come from a new generation.
And very soon, by the way.
But such a decisive majority will never be formed, as long as business/wealth remain at the same level.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Also skeuomorphism designs were crap. [...] iOS got better after he was canned.

No and no. iOS 7 was a hideous collection of globs of garish colors thrown together with nary a cohesive particle among them, and let's not forget the pupil-melting bright white permeating the whole or the incredibly stupid change of buttons to look like plain text. Brilliant!

 

[simonmet]

Very interesting to see. Especially for us whom remember the original rumours especially on,"Think Secret".

I miss Think Secret! Good times!

 

[I7guy]

I thought Forstall had become a divisive figure at Apple. I believe he is what is referred to as a "temperamental talent". I also thought that he held iOS back with keeping it more closed and less innovative as time went on. It took Apple a long time to adopt even simple features that people loved in Android and wanted in iOS and my understanding was that Forstall was the roadblock. Also skeuomorphism designs were crap. Let's not forget he was in charge of the initial Maps failure and initial shortcomings of Siri as well.
iOS got better after he was canned.

And what was up with lack of copy and paste, since your discussing iOS development?

 

[trifid]

I thought Forstall had become a divisive figure at Apple. I believe he is what is referred to as a "temperamental talent". I also thought that he held iOS back with keeping it more closed and less innovative as time went on. It took Apple a long time to adopt even simple features that people loved in Android and wanted in iOS and my understanding was that Forstall was the roadblock. Also skeuomorphism designs were crap. Let's not forget he was in charge of the initial Maps failure and initial shortcomings of Siri as well.
iOS got better after he was canned.

What has Apple done since? It's been 4 years since Forestall's departure and both Maps and Siri are nothing to write home about, in fact they seem on life support and are being left behind by the competition. And while some elements were 'overdone' when it comes to skeuomorphism, some of today's interfaces are a lot worse than it was, the translucency cloudiness extravaganza post iOS6 in some cases made it far more distracting and reduced usability.

Apple is desperately missing that type of leadership that Steve and Scott had, sharp-focused demanding visionary that made the iPhone a reality.

 

[loekf]

Acorn OS? So the iPhone is actually British. Excellent!

Correction, would be more amazing if the iPhone was secretly running a more advanced version of RiscOS (tm).

After seeing these pictures, what were they thinking when proposing P1. Typing a SMS, e-mail or URL using a click wheel, which closely resembles an old fashioned phone dial wheel ?

 

[BigDO]

For the record, Forstall was more important than Ives. Ives developed industrial design cases that met Steve's ideals. He didn't introduce cases and Steve went, ``that's perfect!'' No, there is an entire building full of failed Ive designs. Steve found a `kindred' spirit industrial designer who could produce what he envisioned, not the other way around. Scott was one of the key architects on Openstep.

Yes, he is brash, but he's also amenable when put in his place. I know. I had my brush ups with him. He was used to wearing 7 hats doing his job. We all were at NeXT. When we merged with Apple we couldn't believe how little the average person did at Apple and still bitched it was too much work. That changed rapidly.

Being a NeXT employee had many perks in so we never were interrogated by Steve when he came back and let go if found our position was redundant. That was the Apple legacy crowd, including Blue Box/Red Box cruft, to the 26 marketing departments he whittled down to 1. Yes, there were individual marketing groups for each product made at Apple. There was also 180 internal applications and the IT Budget was asininely off the charts for people getting paid to make these asinine pet software projects that were never intended to be made into actual consumer products.

In short, NeXT folks saved Apple's bacon and it pissed off a lot of legacy who felt threatened. Steve cancelling the paid 12 week Sabbatical option saw a lot of them venting and he offered them the door. OS 9 was a stop-gap Tevanian oversaw to get out the door while OS X was still in development; and wouldn't be nearly viable for a few more years. The amount of cruft at Apple was insane. Lots of resources were leveraged to actually implement streamlined software development practices as no one at Apple had any worth while UNIX experience. So, the iMac became the center piece to pacify the masses, and the iPod was the lucky grand slam that gave Fadell fame for suggesting it but took Jon Rubinstein and his seasoned experience in hardware at NeXT and HP to pull it off.

Losing Rubinstein, Tevanian, Serlet and more takes a toll on any corporation the size of Apple. The replacements aren't on their level.Sina Tamaddon was also vital in ways none of you know.

The only person able to convince all of them to stay on-board and rebuild Apple was Steve. If he had only remained a technical advisor to Amelio the company would have folded in 6 months.

Steve saw something in people so far outside the IT world, brought them in and they became huge points of presence that no one else could have foreseen becoming. Sina was but one example of it. He did that quite frequently at NeXT. He also had a close knit group of luminaries in SV that he drew upon throughout his life which gave him even more insight into building a company.

Tim isn't a local SV product. It shows in his Compaq Southern personality. He's a behind the scenes man who Steve handpicked because he wouldn't sink the ship. Apple will eventually have to find someone who has vision that adheres to the founding principles of its original founder. But that's not now. They are working on the flag ship campus, Project Titan and so much more, but by all means paint Forstall as if you ever worked around him.

The guy is brilliant and well earned his position. Does he have an ego? Hell yes. Did he dwarf Fadell in talent? Hell yes. Tim Cook is not and never will be Steven P. Jobs. He has a more passive aggressive demeanor and doesn't like people to rock the boat: the exact opposite of Steve who demanded a spine and if you could deliver on your boasts you were well rewarded.

Apple is a global company trying to be all things to all cultures, something Tim has worked very hard at achieving.

Let's see what 2017 has now that the flag ship campus will soon be done and no longer preoccupying keep personnel's attention.

Damn, probably the best post I read on MR, ever. Thanks dude.

 

[keysofanxiety]

Why wouldn't the decision be on Cook? The motivation behind apple maps was to get Google off the iPhone, that would have been a decision driven by the CEO not a software manager.

The initial decision to move from Google Maps, yes that would be down to Cook. But it would be Forstall's to advise if Maps is ready for prime time, seeing as he was the head of iOS development and Maps. To imply that Cook should know when it's ready for release without any feedback from the head of iOS development is disingenuous.

The original post I responded to was talking as if Forstall told Cook that Apple Maps wasn't good enough and Cook said "release it anyway". You know that's not the case; it wouldn't have been released if Fosrtall said it wasn't ready. Forstall's refusal to sign the apology letter only further confirms why he needed to be booted.

 

[plexdk]

iOS was super closed, and never got really exciting new features while scott was there.. iOS 7 didn't only get new design, but also a lot of new features, that only android had + it was the start to make it more open.

 

[DoctorKrabs]

I want Scott Forstall back as much as the next guy, but I'm afraid Apple's future doesn't have a place for him.

Just as Tony Fadell was made obsolete after the iPhone and he left Apple to never come back, there wouldn't be room for Scott Forstall to contribute to future projects like Apple's original Carpool Karaoke series.

 

[I7guy]

What has Apple done since? It's been 4 years since Forestall's departure and both Maps and Siri are nothing to write home about, in fact they seem on life support and are being left behind by the competition. And while some elements were 'overdone' when it comes to skeuomorphism, some of today's interfaces are a lot worse than it was, the translucency cloudiness extravaganza post iOS6 in some cases made it far more distracting and reduced usability.

Apple is desperately missing that type of leadership that Steve and Scott had, sharp-focused demanding visionary that made the iPhone a reality.

Apple Maps is pretty good. I don't even have google maps installed on my iPhone; I use Apple maps. I like the local poi better than googles.

 

[Jim Lahey]

Anyone got any videos of something Steve Jobs said thirty years ago? I can't seem to find any

 

[newdeal]

As a way to navigate the home screen the click wheel seems to make about as much sense as turning the digital crown for selecting an app on the watch instead of just tapping on it...also known as no sense at all

 

[masotime]

Tim isn't a local SV product. It shows in his Compaq Southern personality. He's a behind the scenes man who Steve handpicked because he wouldn't sink the ship. Apple will eventually have to find someone who has vision that adheres to the founding principles of its original founder. But that's not now. They are working on the flag ship campus, Project Titan and so much more, but by all means paint Forstall as if you ever worked around him.

The guy is brilliant and well earned his position. Does he have an ego? Hell yes. Did he dwarf Fadell in talent? Hell yes. Tim Cook is not and never will be Steven P. Jobs. He has a more passive aggressive demeanor and doesn't like people to rock the boat: the exact opposite of Steve who demanded a spine and if you could deliver on your boasts you were well rewarded.

Could you then explain exactly what happened with the terrible releases of Maps / Siri? Was Scott Forstall simply a scapegoat? If Forstall were such a talent, what has he done recently that reflects that talent?

You seem to know him personally, so I'm pretty interested in what you have to say.

 

[Stella]

That is some serious minimalistic design there, Scott.

Those prototypes with the click wheel look seriously unusable