New vs Older MacBookPros?

Discussion in 'Mac Basics and Help' started by Texas_Toast, Feb 7, 2016.

  1. Texas_Toast macrumors 6502

    Texas_Toast

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    #1
    From this thread...
    http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/best-hdd-manufacturers-in-2016.1955039/

    What is wrong with newer MacBook Pros?

    Currently I have a MBP from Spring of 2013: MacBook Pro 9.2, Intel Core i7, 2.9 GHz It works well, but the reason I have considered upgrading is that it still has Snow Leopard on it, and I prefer full-version of an OS versus an upgrade. The battery life is also quickly diminishing, and I have worn a hole in the Command key. Still a good laptop, but showing its age.

    I honestly have not kept up with technology, so I have no clue what OS is out there now, and I certainly haven't followed the changes in hardware.

    You make it sound like the latest Macs aren't very good?

    Sincerely,


    Larry
     
  2. chown33 macrumors 604

    Joined:
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    #2
    He's saying the latest versions of some Mac models have more unreplaceable (i.e. soldered-in) components. Or in some cases, they can't be used with rotating hard disks, only SSD's. This varies by model, so you should go to the Apple website and look at technical details to learn more.


    If you have a Snow Leopard version with "App Store.app" (it's in your /Applications folder), then you can get the latest OS from the Mac App Store. This app appeared around 10.6.6, so depending on your specific OS version, you may or may not have it. You might benefit by running Software Update (it's a System Preferences pane).

    If you get El Capitan from the Mac App Store, it will be the full version. If you're not 100% sure you want it, do a full backup before installing it, so you can revert to Snow Leopard.

    You can find out whether your Mac model can run El Cap here:
    http://www.apple.com/osx/how-to-upgrade/#hardware-requirements

    I found that link by googling macs that can run el capitan
     
  3. Texas_Toast thread starter macrumors 6502

    Texas_Toast

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    #3
    What is your thoughts about the newer Macs?

    And what exactly is Apple soldering in? I would hope you can change things like the HDD (or SSD) and RAM.

    Does anyone still use CD/DVD players? I do.

    What are your thoughts on El Capitan? Yes, I do keep getting messages saying I get a free upgrade, but I haven't wanted to risk screwing up my otherwise perfectly running Mac. (Maybe after I get my new HDDs and image things, then I can take the chance?)

    Where is El Capitan in its lifecycle? Should I wait to get a new Mac until something better comes out?

    Sincerely,


    Larry
     
  4. MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #4
    We´ve nearly the same 15" MBP (mine is 9,1 which is nearly the same as 9,2 - the only difference is EFI-mgr).
    So you are lucky - it´s the last one which is upgradeable - except one single 13" MBP in very basic version which will perhaps be discontinued this year.

    ALL succeeding models had less and less chances to be modified. NOW apple sells exclusively MBP with SOLDERED SSD, SOLDERED RAM and even glued batteries!

    The only reason is to force every customer to purchase the most expensive models and the most expensive SSDs already at the beginning. If your needs change after your purchase - bad chance! :D

    Apple is even the only enterprise in the world NOT respecting SATA-Standards: They assemble even SSDs with proprietary connections to prevent that the owners of the macs can do anything.
    They sacrificed CD/DVD-bay either - our models are the last with it.

    Snow Leopard is still one of - if not THE - best OSX ever. I hesitated with upgrading until 1 year ago - now I use Mountain Lion. Every following OSX was full of serious bugs - look here:

    http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/worst-overall-version-of-os-x.1844248/

    Performance of later MBP than 2012 is nearly still the same !
    I am lucky because I even have the "Hi-Res" matt Screen with it - for me the best monitor they assembled.

    If you install 16GB for 100 USD and a top 1 TB SSD (Samsung 850EVO) (about 330 USD) this machine runs as good as the newest ones. AND: You still have DVD/CD and the FW800 connection (good thing forv people like me still using from time tom time older FW-equipment or playing DVDs or CDs on it or transferring something by optical media.

    Same happened for the desktop MAcPro: Simnce 2013 much less upgradeability.

    as for me - I´ll stay with my MBP 9,1 15" under ML until God will take us apart… :D
     
  5. Texas_Toast thread starter macrumors 6502

    Texas_Toast

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    #5
    That is all very depressing.

    Why would anyone want to own a Mac going forward??

    Nearly everything I have ever owned including cars, homes, tools, and computers I have modified to meet my needs.

    If you can no longer build a Mac like you want, then I'm not sure I want to stay with Macs...
     
  6. Alrescha, Feb 7, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016

    Alrescha macrumors 68020

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    #6
    Because for the 99% of people (that is my own wild-assed guess) who do not ever upgrade their machines, nothing has changed.

    I did a lot of mucking about inside my computer 15 years ago, but not much since then.

    Eliminating sockets, battery compartments, and so on means machines are smaller and lighter (something which has come to be pretty popular). Furthermore, Apple is a very environmentally-aware company: for every component they solder in, that's another socket that does not get manufactured, delivered, installed, and eventually dumped in a landfill somewhere.

    A.
     
  7. Texas_Toast thread starter macrumors 6502

    Texas_Toast

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    #7
    Except now when I want a little more RAM or a slightly larger HDD I have to spend a couple thousand dollars instead of a couple hundred... For instance, right now I need an extra 250 GB of storage, and was able to accomplish that for $70 by buying a larger 3rd party HDD. (When I bought my brand new MBP in 2013, I couldn't get a 1TB HDD.)

    So is that Tim Cook's angle... Bilk every last dollar out of people?

    I don't mind spending a couple grand when it is justified, but having to do that every 2 years to add a little more RAM of storage is insane.

    Also, I'm sure that when my not-so-old Mac that goes in a landfill that it does a lot more damage than that socket you describe above. ;)

    Please tell me things aren't really this bad!
     
  8. Alrescha macrumors 68020

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    #8
    Actually, I do not think it is. I suspect that Tim is ok with it if you want to move on to another platform and never buy a Mac again. Keep your money. Come back when you need a glass of ice water.

    A.
     
  9. b0fh666 macrumors 6502a

    b0fh666

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    #9
    they are that bad. I am hanging on to my 2012s as long as possible. here's a recipe for you as it is the same as mine :

    buy something called an 'optibay adapter' which allows you to remove your DVD-rom (I know you use it, but make it external, it's worth it). move your HDD there. buy a 512GB sata3 SSD and put it where the stock HDD is. Put 16GB DDR3 1600 while at it and while it is still cheap and being manufactured.

    I did this for both (well, one has only 256GB SSD but...) and expect them to last me a few years more. both running like a champ on el capitan.

    one thing I don't follow in your post tough, 9,2 does not run snow leopard, you probably have mountain lion in it not SL. just upgrade to el capitan it works well on this machine.

    cheers
     
  10. MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #10
    That´s the kind of "Love it or leave it" phrases of apple-believers …
    In fact, as I pointed out, there is NO NEED to buy later MacBookPrp models.

    But there are lemmings enough to buy new ones without analyzing their needs in real life - and particularly without doing their maths.
    apple is the only brand that is soldering Ram and SSDs. Because they sell it at 200-300% of the market price.
    As you see in this thread, there are still people apologizing this bad policy. Its a kind of "Customers Stockholm syndrome", often seen in apple "loyalists"….

    This policy has nothing to do with environmental protection, (in facts, it is exactly the opposite), but it is all about greed….
     
  11. Texas_Toast thread starter macrumors 6502

    Texas_Toast

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    #11
    I have a MacBook Pro, 13", Mid 2012 and I misspoke because I have Mountain Lion.

    You have some good ideas, but they won't help that my second Mac has another failing keyboard. The command key has a hole in it, and the spacebar sometimes fails. The battery is also losing its strength quickly - used to be able to get 5 hours out of it, and now maybe 2 hours. (You would think for $1,500 you could get something that doesn't break in 3 years...)

    If it weren't for things like the keyboard and the battery I would keep this for another 5 years.

    I would be willing to buy a new MBP if it was like a traditional laptop and gave me some ability to tweak it, but if what I am buying is more like a smartphone where you can't touch anything, then I'd have to give that some serious thought.
     
  12. Alrescha macrumors 68020

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    #12
    I made no apologies. Please stop with the personal attacks.

    I said Tim probably does not care. By that I mean he and Apple are not going to modify the design of millions of computers to please a vocal minority. You are not going to get your floppy drive back.

    A.
     
  13. Texas_Toast thread starter macrumors 6502

    Texas_Toast

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    #13
    Sure seems that way to me. Not to mention a little disheartening to see the rather hostile comment above. To each his/her own.

    Imagine if your car came with wheels that were welded onto the vehicle...
    --- Post Merged, Feb 7, 2016 ---
    If you wouldn't have added in this last part, what you said wouldn't seem so angry...

    "Keep your money. Come back when you need a glass of ice water."

    ;)
     
  14. MrAverigeUser, Feb 7, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016

    MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #14
    Since the design is of type "still upgradable" you can buy not everything but a lot as püare parts and exchange keyboard, battery as well.
    keyboard = 40-45 USD, battery about 60-90 USD. Battery exchange takes not more than 5-10 min and is easy as eating chips. I would upgrade the RAM up to 16 GB, this makes the MBP faster, but the big kick is the SSD. You will be VERY impressed!
    As for the keyboard, it depends. In total you have to unscrew about 70-890 screws (not kidding).
    I gave my old 2011 8,2 MBP to my daughter 2 months ago after exchange of the failing keyboard. To exchange the keyboard you have to dissemble nearly ALL interiors, so I preferred this been done by a 3rd party service. He charged 185 for all including material. Took about 1 hour.

    BUT if it is just the spacebar, you could try just to clean the mechanism of the spacebar.
    There are very good "how to" Videos on YT. Cleaning the spacebar is a little bit more difficult than the others, but some videos show taking off and cleaning of the spacebar as well.

    Symptom of a real failing keyboard is mostly in the mid of the MBP in the QWERTY-line of keys. Spacebar will more be caused by dust, crumbles or drops of coffee/Juice or so…
     
  15. Texas_Toast thread starter macrumors 6502

    Texas_Toast

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    #15
    Where can I buy a battery?

    As far as the keyboard, I would spend $200 if I could get OEM keyboard installed and know it would last for at least 3 more years.


    Apparently I have 8GB of DDR3, 1600 MHz

    So doubling my RAM would make a big deal? Where should I buy that and what would it cost? (Do I have to replace what I have now or just add on to it?)

    It sounds like you are saying fix my aging MBP 9.2 and then supercharge it as well?
     
  16. MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #16
    @ Texas toast

    ---> The link in my signature will be interesting for you… (I am not the author, but it is exactly what I tell everyone as well…)
     
  17. Alrescha macrumors 68020

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    #17
    Steve Jobs once said that giving Windows users Apple software was "like giving a glass of ice water to someone in Hell".


    I am sorry for the controversy, but telling you it is hot is not the same thing as making it hot, or approving of the heat.

    As things get smaller and more compact, the entire industry is moving toward more and more non-replaceable components. It was CPUs first:

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012...eplaceable-cpus-may-be-the-future-of-desktops

    It is only a matter of time.

    A.
     
  18. MrAverigeUser, Feb 7, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016

    MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #18
    As for Ram:

    You have to buy a well-reputed brand. I purchased Samsung, but there are also other brands..
    Samsung 2x 8GB = 16GB KIT DDR3L RAM 1600 Mhz PC3-12800 SO-DIMM

    and: YES, it makes a difference - the degree depends of what you do with your machine. (Nowadays the 2x8 GB Samsung Ram costs not even 90 USD all inclusive). But the most impressive is the difference between SSD and HDD. You will have instantly a big smiile in your face ! Starting Canon Photo professional including loading of about 30-40 GB photos takes now max. 2-3 seconds with my machine… :)

    As for battery: Look in the Threads about batteries in this forum, or in other forums. There are even some well-reputed 3rd party batteries that have now 10-15% MORE capacity than the original ones, but there exist also batteries with issues. Apple will charge 50-100% more. The apple batteries are not better than the better 3rd party ones but you can trust them.

    Look how to do in the YT-videos and/or at ifixit.com they have excellent instructions for nearly every thinkable repair with top-photos.
     
  19. Texas_Toast thread starter macrumors 6502

    Texas_Toast

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    #19
    And that has what to do with this thread? I am a Mac user, not a Windows user.


    Maybe it is the way you said it?

    This change may be inevitable, but it doesn't mean I like it.

    When I was a PC user, I had laptops with keyboards that lasted the life of the machine - not 2-3 years. That is my frustration with solid-state laptops.

    I shouldn't have to buy a new laptop every time the memory or storage runs out or the keyboard or battery breaks.

    When laptops cost $500 it will be different, but when I drop a couple thousand dollars, I expect more.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 7, 2016 ---
    It sounds like you are recommending I fix my keyboard and battery, add some more memory and storage, and keep my current MBP for a couple more years, right?

    How much longer do you think I could get it to last?

    Also, could I get lucky and find a new MBP like I have now as a backup?
     
  20. Alrescha macrumors 68020

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    #20
    You were the one talking about not wanting to "stay with Macs..." Windows seemed a likely possibility.

    I am done here. Enjoy.

    A.
     
  21. MrAverigeUser, Feb 7, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016

    MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #21
    Yes, I recommend this.
    But I am not a prophet, apple Macs are not as reliable as the good old Toshiba Pro line or IBM Thinkpad in the 90´s… or the PAnasonic Toughbook… so - I agree absolutely with you!

    The MBPs have 2 main weak points: GPU (but this seems only to concern 15" MBPs, because they have an additional discrete GPU) and the keyboard. As for the keyboard: If you (or the service) get a good keyboard it will probably last 2-4 years more.
    I purchased a new 2011 MBP (extremely expensive at that time, nearly 3000EUR because including 512 GB SSD, now my daughter is happy with it) and the keyboard failed some days after warranty expired. This happens too often, but it happens not all the time for everybody. If it is only the spacebar, cleaning might be sufficient. I don´t know.

    I purchased the 2012 15" 9,1 two months ago as a second hand occasion. Looks like new and was assembled in Oct 2013 - so one of the last ones - it comes even with Apple Care until sept 2016. If you are patient enough you can buy a second hand one for redundancy for not too much. If you take it really just in case of, you are not forced to upgrade:You take off just the RAM and SSD (and evtl. battery) from the one you used before and install this in 10 min in your reserve-MBP.
     
  22. Texas_Toast thread starter macrumors 6502

    Texas_Toast

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    #22
    Compelling idea.

    I found a couple new ones online.

    Anyone care to chime in why this would not be a good idea?

    I need a reliable MacBook for the next 4 years. It sounds like I can get my keyboard and battery issues fixed, and I think I will be okay with RAM and storage for a few more years as well after an upgrade

    So why a second MBP? Well, if these are the last upgradable Macs on the planet, then I think I need a backup!

    However, maybe I am worrying about something I shouldn't.

    Any compelling reasons why I should just get a newer, non-upgradable MBP when I need one?

    If the keyboard and battery last longer than my last two Macs, then I will be okay in every area except I know I will outgrow storage before the end of the new Macs life.

    Please enlighten me!
     
  23. MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #23
    I am not familiar with the the 13" MBPs… they soldered not at once both RAM and SSD and glued the battery, but more and more. That started with the next model after yours.
    BTW: This is a very good website to get informations about specs:
    http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/index-macbookpro.html

    but there is no Info about what model has soldered and glued parts.
    Excellent members like weaselboy and others could give you better advice concerning that.
    You could contact him to get a second opinion and more preciser advice.

    In fact the only RELEVANT differences to later MBP will be 2-channel WiFi and in later models and the retina Screen.
    As for the second WiFi channel: You can easily buy a USB-stick with a/c WiFi on it for 20-40 USD, so no problem. But as for me, I have nO problem with the "older" n-Version. And the a/c version is not about better WiFi on distance, (in fact, the second channel has shorter wavelength ad thus works only on shorter distances in buildings) it is only about more channels in "crowded" sites…
    as for the screen: In a 13" 1440x800 is really ok. who needs REALLY a retina screen? And: Is it worth for compensate soldered SSD and RAMs and glued batteries?
     
  24. b0fh666 macrumors 6502a

    b0fh666

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    #24
    as stated before, all is repleaceable/fixable on this machines (and cheap), so you can probably use them until the logic board fails or they become too slow, obsolete. at this point with the ssd they perform superbly tough.

    Odd that mine are from 2012 and the batteries are still quite decent, replacing them is a piece of cake. keyboard not so much so I tend to be gentle on mine :)

    cheers.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 8, 2016 ---
    kinda sad that no one is making replacement screens with higher res panels for those machines yet... i'd love to have 1440x900 on the 13". the 15" is already 1680x1050 so no problems there :)
     
  25. MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #25
    At least in germany there is a service who replaces the normal 1440x800 screen by a 1680x1080 MATT (!!) Screen. They claim this newer Screentype who fits to 8,1 - 9,1 15" MBPs is even a little bit better than the already phantastic hi-res mat screen which was a option at that time of the 8,1 -9,1 times. I ordered my 15" (8,1) one with this in 2011, bought a 2012 9,1 2 months ago already with this screen and another 9,1 with the glaring normal screen, which I will send soon to the service for exchange with a mat 1680x1080 screen. I will report my experiences with these specialists after the exchange, if you want me to..
     

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