Newton Revival?

[fazel]

minipod

Anyone think that the introduction of the ipodmini is part of a larger strategy that will eventually see the ipod morph into a larger device with the features that we've been discussing? If not, the introduction of a device larger than the ipod would also be a possibility.

 

[Nermal]

er... I'm pretty sure the original Newton was a PDA. Scully coined the term with respect to the original newton.

arn

OK, let me rephrase that. The box of the original MessagePad calls it a "communications assistant". Happy now?

 

[SiliconAddict]

OK, let me rephrase that. The box of the original MessagePad calls it a "communications assistant". Happy now?

The generally accepted term for what the Newton is, is a handheld computer. While the Newton does fall into the realm of Personal Digital Assistants (PDA) in terms of what they do PDAs usually fall into a much smaller form factor one that can usually be pocketed. (al la Pocket PC or Palm.) As much as I love my Newton short of some seriously oversized pants there is no way I’m going to be pocketing it.

 

[applefans]

If Apple was to come up with a new device I would want a phone, ipod, and presentation, quicktime abilities. I curently have a nice g5 and I really don't need a laptop except to show presentations. I always have to borrow someones laptop just to hook up to the projectors at school. All I want to do is present a Keynote file and $1000 for an iBook is not the answer. The problem is that some computers I hook to don't have the software I need on them, nor do they have bluetooth. So a device that I can run or at least play Keynote is a must since exporting to Powerpoint defeats the purpose of using Keynote If its not a phone, then device that could be used with a Sailing Clicker type program that I could control with bluetooth to go to the next slide. I can't wait Apple!

With internet connection via modem or WiFi, add a cute software and a bluetooth earphone, I would like to convert my powermac / powerbook / Newton II / ipod / to a phone. Who need the cell phone again?

 

[JeffTL]

If you go much beyond the Palm line, you find yourself competing against the iBook, which suddenly looks like EVEN BETTER value against (for example) an $800 PDA. When I was in the laptop market the 12.1" iBook looked better value-wise than the cheapo HP laptops that go for about $800; now just imagine a PDA like that. Give me calendar, give me address book, give me Wi-Fi for Web and AIM, a memo pad, plenty of memory, and preferably a keyboard and I am happily efficient...so I use a Tungsten C.

 

[elgruga]

Newton Shnewton.

I had one...., OK, I had several. The last model, the 2000? or something was great, but it didnt do anything really well enough to make it fly.

It wasnt enough of a computer.
It wasnt enough of a recording device.
It wasnt easy to read books on it, although I did.
It wasnt anything of a music player.
It wasnt a phone.

It was a concept that sparked off a bunch of other stuff, and if there were awards for helping others to make money while losing it yourself then many of us, including Apple would receive them.

The pioneers get the arrows - the settlers get the land.

I sold my Newtons and kept buying them back as the price dropped and dropped (used).

I tried to be geeky enough to use it after it was obviously a dead concept, mainly cause they were so cheap on eBay.
I finally gave up when I realised it had no power to attract women, or to make me feel good, on a consistent basis.

The iPod makes me feel VERY good. My choice of music wherever I am without disturbing anyone.
I have yet to seriously research the 'attract women' thing - probably it doesnt.

And you think the Newt is gonna make a comeback? Yeah, right.

Bring on the Yo-Yo, the Rubiks cube. the Hula Hoop, the Sinclair scooter thing, the Fiat 500 - well, you get the idea.

Video Newton PDA thing? NO.

Who wants to watch movies on a tiny screen? Like, why?
Not everything will go small.

Some things just have to be the size they are, and thats that.
Things like: Pints of beer, widescreen TV's, women, shoes, guitars, etc.

Not everything needs to be reduced to tiny.

 

[boobers]

Sharp deserves credit

Many would argue Sharp deseveres credit for the PDA as their organizers have been around since the 80's in one form or another..usually with keyboards.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Newton Shnewton.

It wasnt enough of a computer.
It wasnt enough of a recording device.
It wasnt easy to read books on it, although I did.
It wasnt anything of a music player.
It wasnt a phone.

And you will notice that all of these things are now possible. The Newton, just like previous incarnations of the tablet pc, were ahead of their time trying to accomplish things that tech at the time could not produce. FYI - The Newton CAN play MP3s Google search it sometime.

As for having it be a phone. I couldn’t care less about the overhype of the smartphone. Try entering a paragraph of text on a smartphone sometime. I bet you would give up in 2 sentences. Smartphones are great for one and only one thing. Data retrieval. They suck big time for data entry something which a PDA is pretty good for but for which the Newton’s form factor excels at.

 

[areyouwishing]

If Apple was to get back into this market, they certainly should NOT do a PDA. They need something between a PDA and Tablet PC.

It needs to have...

a) Removable MicroDrive 4GB
b) Wireless 802.11b (for internet and light networking)
c) Firewire/USB for downloading of Music, Games, Movies
d) At least the same size screen as the old newton (color)
e) S-Video/RCA Video Out for presentations

If they can get all this in a 400-500 package they could KILL. As time goes on, Microdrives can be upgraded to allow for more storage, so its ALWAYS expandable. Games, Music, and Movies could lure in the kid market, the PDA/Wireless Internet functions could lure in the business market (even making a Keynote "player" for the device would be great). This could fill SOOO many gaps, and could satisfy so many people. People could download movies onto their device, or music, share everything via rendezvous. The USB connection could make for a connection to a printer or Keyboard for simple word processing for students... if this thing is 5 inches it would be great to carry in a backpack.

 

[geran]

If Apple was to get back into the PDA market, they should:

1) Opensource NewtonOS like they have done with Darwin.
2) Opensource the hardware.

Why? Right know nothing seems to hapening with the Newton platform, that makes nobody happy, and soon are the newton tehnology to far behind to be useful.

 

[shabbasuraj]

regardless.... whatever Apple decides on this pseudo PDA device, I am pleased with the fact that Apple has simply begun to think about possible hardware expansion strategies...]

maybe a 2 button mouse is next...

perhaps not...

 

[squatch]

GSM #1 in US and World

Is GSM popular enough in North America that people in general would buy a "newton phone?" Europe/Asia get phones way before we do usually, so would this be released overseas first? Any mobile phone experts out there...?

Yes, I used to work in the cell phone market. I would almost bet my Mac that if Apple released a hybrid Smartphone of some sort, it would include GSM technology. Why? Because now the largest cell phone carrier in the US is GSM (Cingular/AT&T), and as you said all of Europe and parts of Asia run on GSM technology.

If I were Apple and I wanted to make this a GLOBAL product able to sell in multiple countries, I would release a GSM compliant device for the cell phone functionality side. If the market demanded CDMA compatibility (technology that Verizon, Sprint PCS, US Cellular run on), then possibly release a dual GSM/CDMA or CDMA compatible device alongside the GSM one.

 

[squatch]

Altivec powered device?

I know many of you remember the rumor not too long back about IBM revamping the current G3 processor to make it low powered and Altivec compliant (I believe the name of the chip was 750FX?). My bet is that if Apple releases this mobile device using a scaled down version of OS X, they will use this chip because if any of the iApps appear on it, or even Quicktime for sure, they will need the advanced instructions of the Velocity Engine to run smoothly.

Otherwise, it's likely to be a revamped NewtonOS with iApp-compatible applications. Any ideas?

 

[kaiser]

If Apple does do a new Newton, I think it should have the following specs:

About the size of an iPaq
4GB Hard Disk (same as iPod Mini)
Colour screen with resolution of 640x480
Special version of Mac OS X for PDAs
400Mhz ARM or IBM G3 if they can get the power down enough.
ATI IMAGEON™ 2300 graphics (3D graphics card)

Optional Wifi/Bluetooth of course

I'm dreaming of this Newton Revival and these would be good specs, but I'd go a bit bigger on the HD, say 15 GB.

But then Apple should take things a bit further, a combination iPod, iPhone, PDA with the following goodies:

A real keyboard .. maybe something like the Nokia 9200i (There is nothing more rediculous than a bunch of business execs in a meeting trying to make appointments using Palm. It looks real funny.)

A mini iSight as well. Then Apple could link the thing to .Mac along the lines of the always-on-always-connected Blackberry concept. Through iChat AV you could get real video conferencing or VOIP right from your car or airport or hotel. Appointments taken by a secretary and entered into iCal would be immediately updated on .Mac then to the "iPDA" or vice versa. Email too.

Just dreaming ...

 

[aswitcher]

Yes, I used to work in the cell phone market. I would almost bet my Mac that if Apple released a hybrid Smartphone of some sort, it would include GSM technology. Why? Because now the largest cell phone carrier in the US is GSM (Cingular/AT&T), and as you said all of Europe and parts of Asia run on GSM technology.

SNIP

Well as long as its at least TriBand GSM

 

[chriscorcoran]

BRING BACK THE NEWTON! I have a Palm Zire 71 and a Dell Axim X5 while I love them both I would definatly pay 300 bucks for a new newton. I can see it now...an Intel Arm CPU (maybe a custom IBM or TI chip) upwards of 500Mhz, tons of storage definalty more then 128 idealy 256 of bulit in storage(maybe a microdrive), audio out, airport, bluetooth, one of apples amazing displays and awsome interface. It would not only kick the crap out of my Palm and Dell it would look cooler too! So BRING BACK THE NEWTON!

PS
If anyone can bring it to us it would be Jobs. Altough he has spoken out againts a PDA type device it may be a smartphone. So hurry up and BRING BACK THE NEWTON! Who cares if its a smart phone or pda! We need something better!

 

[jojoanderson]

why get hung up on old standarts... think different!

alright guys... I aggree with SJ to scrap the newton at the time. and I do agree that the PDA market is too competitive and the apple customer base wouldnt be enough to support such a project.
however... apple has always been forward thinking and that's exactly what we need here. what we need is the next generation portable computing device. imagine a palm size device that is a GSM phone, a GPS and a small personal computer. it has bluetooth technology and comes with a wireless earpiece that will knock your senses silly... it can store massive amounts of data, boot your mac or host your user directory, and of course store and play music and video. hmmm... video, how about video conferencing via iChatAV.
now hold on to your seats.... what if the device would stand up on the table, connect to your 802.11 WIFI or if you are out of range through your wireless service provider and it will project a keyboard on the tabletop you set it down on [http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_548253.html?menu=news.technology].
bundle this with a modified version of OSX [including a terminal app] and a brand new apple works or slimed down version of Office and tell me you wouldn't pay $ 499.00 for such a device. I bet you a lot of people could could replace their laptop computers with it and where do you get a laptop for that kind of money.

***this message was printed using recycled electrons***

 

[bluesoutback]

Life After Newton?

Personally I don´t think the PDA idea has much of a future anymore. The extended mobile phone or extended ipod might still generate some interest.

-------------------------------------------------
I was anxious for the last "Personal Assistant" - the last incarnation of the Newton after having use of one for a few days.
But even at $1000 (sans keyboard, given the brilliant "price-drop" strategy they had which merely made the keyboard a $100+ add-on & still came to about $1200 for the final product) - it was too expensive at a bad time in the desktop market for Apple.

Handwriting recognition was passable in the last incarnation just months or weeks before they killed it. But the processor was slow. it didn't have adequate removable storage media if i recall correctly - the audio recording feature was neat but underpowered.

They'd just come out with a new desktop line - I needed a desktop upgrade, but I would have had to pay almost as much for a "Newton." It was an easy choice.

There were two potential markets - one requiring a larger sketching "slate," the other being the shirt pocket crowd.

The Newton was too big to fit in a pocket for convenience, though as I recall it was about the time that guys were starting to carry "purse" accessories.
It needed to be a "slate." - which the Intel crowd hasn't done succesfully to date, but that further reduced its convenience for a shirt pocket.

But I ain't gonna drop more than the price of a $400 iPod for a device of questionable value to me unless it really captures my imagination wth a new use.

They need a new angle if they want to revitalize a faltering market - if it played DVDs like some of the 7" screened players out there now, acted as a photo wallet as well & had a monster quality display & processor to match.
There is still a niche between the mini-laptop & a PDA, but it better be thin & ruggedized.

I don't care about phones - but give me a drawing slate that won't break if I drop it & does some of the above - with room & speed to spare. They might have a sale if it remains under $600 & doesn't have a $100 battery like the iPod.

 

[TubaMuffins]

all i want i a phone that can easily sync with my address book and ical, also to be able to edit these things on my phone. i dont care about quicktime or processor speeds. i think a smart phone is much more probable than a complete entertainmentr hub in your hand.

 

[mangis]

Way back in 1992 when I got my powerbook 160, most of my friends thought I was crazy. "Why would you want something so small?", they asked. Living in a studio apartment, and not owning a car, i knew exactly what I wanted. Then, I predicted the future, and told them that someday, laptops would be more popular than desktops. It has taken what, 13 years for those words to come true?

Years later, when I got my Lombard powerbook, I knew what a good thing they were. 5 years later, that machine still works, but I have to say that these machines are not truly portable. In America, where everyone seems to have a car, those and even the current powerbooks seem portable, but this is really an illusion. Try walking around a city all day with one in your briefcase or even backpack. Your arm will fall off. I don't care what people say, they are heavy. Even bulky.

We need a smaller way to carry around apple operating systems. There is no doubt about this. We need something much smaller, and much thinner. Perhaps not a PDA, but a little "Powerbook-Mini", something to rival those sony vaios. As a Mac user, while I love the stuff, I still have "hardware envy" when I see tiny vaios at airports. My clunky 12 inch screen and thick box are heavy. I travel a lot, and I still don't have a car. And the screens? How long is it gona take apple to put a 64 bit screen in our 12 inch laptops? PC people have had better screens for years. 32 bit seems like something from the 20th century. We are behind in screen brightness, for sure. If any of you zealots think otherwise, then you are just too biased. Don't bark that the high end powerbooks have it, we all know that.

A smaller computer is what we need. Stick it in a pda, and I'd buy it in a second.

 

[boobers]

Do you mean something like this?
You aren't the only one....
Just add a bluetooth mouse and bob's your uncle.

 

[Spades]

Please, no smartphones. I'll never use all the features of my cell phone. I rarely use the phone itself. Why would I want a phone with a whole PDA attached? No thanks.

What I do want is a palmtop computer. It should be effectively a PC, just smaller, more portable, and it should last at least a day on batteries. A computer that I can clip to my belt would be extremely useful. I'd be willing to pay the price of an iBook for that. My feature wishlist is pretty small, I think. Audio out, firewire, usb, bluetooth/wi-fi, mini-DVI, and an external storage slot of some kind. Make it so it can function as a USB storage device. Put a hard drive in it. Even just a few gigs would do. Keyboard and touch-screen. I like clamshell, but that's not really neccessary. Make sure the OS is *nix-based, and I'll be happy.

 

[bensisko]

First, just to make a correction, the Active Newton user base is somewhere around 10,000 (not 200 as previously mentioned).

Second, the Newton (2x00 models) CAN be a phone (and an mp3 player, and a WiFi enabled device, and a video player and.... ect. Thanks to the large and devoted Newton community).

Third, the PDA market is NOT dying out (and has been picking up steam in the closing months of 03 and opening of 04, and set to pick up once the new Palm and Pocket PC OS comes out). Over saturated? Maybe. Those who think Smartphones are going to kill PDAs need to do a reality check. A dip in sales does not mean the end of the market, it means that companies need to do more to say what's different between their old device and their new device. Just because YOU don't want to carry around two devices doesn't mean that there are others who WANT two devices (and vice verca). Yes Smartphones are blurring the line between phones and PDAs, but with the Palm and Pocket PC devices out there, at what point do you call it a PDA and at what point is it a phone? I'm sure it won't be long before you will be able to buy a phone "card" for your PDA.

Fourth, it wouldn't be that hard for Apple to re-enter the market. Apple turned the mp3 Player market 180 degrees when it introduced the iPod. That was a makret that was "dying".

Fifth, despite the rumors, I just don't see Apple releasing a PDA (weither it be in the form of a Pocket PC type device with a new OS, a Tablet Mac running OS X, or even some kind of smart phone). The only new 'device' I can see them releasing is some kind of portable Video player (which still seems like a stretch).

Just to wrap up: If you want a phone, buy a phone. If you want an Apple PDA, buy a Newton (A great device that has a wonderful and enthusiastic community behind it), if you want a PDA with a color screen that does multimedia, buy a Pocket PC or a Sony (and YES you CAN sync both of those with a Mac). There are options out there and if you want a device, you can probably find one that fits 80-90% of what you want. If you don't want a device, please don't try and make it sound like your personal tastes are what the entire population wants (i.e. I don't want to carry two devices which means nobody else does eather)(and yes, I know Steve does it, and it doesn't sound any better coming from him).

 

[Photorun]

...if there were awards for helping others to make money while losing it ... Apple would receive them.

Apple would be the lifetime, if not worldwide or universe-wide hands down all time winner of this award.

 

[fixyourthinking]

Sharp actually desrves credit for the Newton

Many would argue Sharp deseveres credit for the PDA as their organizers have been around since the 80's in one form or another..usually with keyboards.

The Newton was actually a Sharp model anyway and the Sharp Zaurus of the time ran the Newt OS.

Sharp has had the most awesome form factor PDA of recent memory in the 5500 with the slide out keyboard + it ran Linux making it capable of booting basillisk in emulation - I have seen a few people running Photoshop 3.0 on their Zaurus.