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Newton Technology and the iWalk

As for the sad SpyMac videos, has anyone realized that Apple never puts "Apple" underneath the Apple logo. When the thing starts up there's a huge Apple logo and underneath it says "Apple iWalk". This alone is enough to assume that SpyMac's videos were pulled out of somebody's ass.

Six

http://SmackOSRumors.tk/
 
Oh yeah, we are all also forgetting that all of these eBooks and electronic book readers would be obsolete with the Newton. The Newton did, and still does have a book reader included. There are thousands of titles people have made for them too. And it's WONDERFUL that the Newton's screen was so big, because you could actually read a page from a book. I still don't think that the HWR on my Messagepad 100 is that bad at all. At least it isn't graffiti. :)


Gus
 
I hate to say it, but I DO completely believe it was a take-this Sculley move. Since Steve had nothing to do with the idea, development, and creation of this wonderful little toy, he felt no attachment to it whatsoever. The Apple board at the time knew that the Newton was finally turning the corner, but the Newton had always been a black eye for the company with the world at large. That Doonesbury cartoon, (and it seems ridiculous that a cartoon would have this much sway), really killed the baby before it had a chance with the public. By the way,, Gary Trudeau (writer of Doonesbury) later apologized after he saw the Newton 2.x OS and actually drew some Newton advertisements for the company. Anyway, my 2 cents.

gus
 
Digital lifestyle?

Can anyone successfully argue the "perceived" stance that Steve Jobs has against PDAs? I just don't get how he can be so "hip" to the Digital Device notion...the mac as a "hub" idea, and yet be so cool to the PDA.

The PDA should be at the very center of this lifestyle. I don't want 3 or 4 "iPod" like devices...I want a single PDA that performs these functions. This thread has renewed my spirits. I thought I was the last voice crying in the wilderness over the greatness of the Newton, and the rightness of bringing it back.

That recent quote from Steve that the PDA market is dead is telling. Basically he stated that no one was really using PDAs anymore. But, is he not capable of asking the follow-up question: why? The answer is that all the PDAs are lousy! And, again, if Steve thinks an Apple-branded Palm is some sort of answer, I think he is sadly mistaken.

But...the same could have been said about the MP3 market. It was heading towards obscurity. There were no players that made any sense for the cost. There were $299 players with only 128 mb of memory. What a joke. But, clearly Apple didn't just conclude that "no one wants to use MP3 players." They asked the "why" question and determined that it was becuase there was not a viable player in the market. They solved the "why" question, and I believe they can solve the "why" question for the PDA.

Additionally...people keep saying that Apple can't compete in the now crowded PDA market. Who Cares? As they did with the iPod...produce great products for the Mac crowd, and expand/support your community. They created a bit o' Mac envy with the iPod...and they could do the same with an Apple PDA done right.

[Edited by Timothy on 01-05-2002 at 05:33 PM]
 
Anyone hear of Dynabook?

I think Steve killed Newton, in part, because it wasn't an elegant enough design for him.

In my opinion, there is a common tread from iWalk to Newton to .... the concept of the Dynabook. This was proposed by Dr. Alan Kay in 1969 (approx), as an ultimate wireless laptop, PDA, & PC, and the size of a piece of paper and the thickness of 100 sheets of paper. Alan worked at Xerox PARC, conceived of "Objects", wrote smalltalk, came up with the desktop metaphor, overlapping windows, and use of a (3) button mouse. He also showed Steve around PARC in '79, was an Apple Fellow in the 1980's, and still a close friend of Steve's.

My point is that Newton was an early attempt at some of the major attributes of Alan's concept. An iWalk strikes me as a potentially better (more elegant) attempt that would fit within the current Apple direction of a digital hub.

An iWalk that allows me to get away from my desk, do all the wireless PDA things, plus the "office" basics, and "sync" up later would be very compelling. Plus, let it handle movies/images like the iPod does tunes. Works well for the digital strategy.

For my money, having worked at Xerox (70's) and Apple (80's), those videos are real, though editied, of a prototype that exists now at Apple. That it will be announced Monday (or ever) is anyone's guess. I sure hope so, if it is ready.
 
Price...

OK...not to bury you with too much stuff...but

Let's tackle the issue of "price." Why are people so "cheap" when it comes to a great PDA? A device they would use extensively on a daily basis.

People are willing to spend easily between $500-$1000 on a Digital Camera, that they will maybe use once per month.

Why is there such a difference in the perception of value?

[Edited by Timothy on 01-05-2002 at 04:25 PM]
 
Re: Faked video

Spartacus, I think you're dumb. I have a MessagePad 2000 that works exactly the way the videos show. This is my fifth Newton, so I think I know what I'm talking about. You probably owned a Newton OS 1.X device to say such things...
 
PDA Upstage

Here's an interesting observation by As the Apple Turns:
By the way, if Steve doesn't unveil an "iPad" or some form of tablet-style, pen-driven Mac slate on Monday, it looks like Microsoft will get to enjoy the lion's share of the press attention next week. See, faithful viewer happened to stumble across what is in all likelihood the real reason why Uncle Steve moved his keynote from Tuesday to Monday: according to InfoWorld, Bill Gates is delivering another keynote on Tuesday at the Consumer Electronics Show. (By the way, if you've heard the rumor that Steve was also going to keynote at CES, we should let you know that the Mac Show proved it wrong with a three minute phone call to the show's organizers. Darn that investigative journalism.)
Click to expand...
This may explain why the keynote was moved to Monday from Tuesday and would tend to support the notion that an iWalk-like device may be in the works...

Andrew
 
why not?

It is clear from all the hopeful iWalk posts that we really want and are ready for an updated Newton PDA that is more like a laptop replacement than a Palm Pilot. (Shoot, I am--I am either buying the new Apple PDA or am Apple laptop (maybe both) early next year). So why doesn't someone buy the hardware, software and name from Apple if they dont want it, and develop it further? I mean, I havent heard a single bad thing about the hardware or software re: the Newton on this site. With the better battery life and faster mobile processors now available (as opposed to what was available in the 80's), a company interested in investing some time could make a killer product. Even if 80% of Mac users owned a Apple brand PDA, it would be a huge commercial success. And since we are the technological cusp of a PDA offering laptop level functionality, why not! Finally, this whole PDA thing reminds you of just how ahead of the curve Apple has always been, even during their tough times in the early-mid 90's...what a company!
 
Making the ultimate PDA


I like the points Tim brought up about price and functionality of PDA's...

It raises the question - how to make a PDA useful... or otherwise indispensable...

I've thought about this and... here are some thoughts I've had on the topic. For me, portable computing as a whole won't be quite as exciting until we get wide range wireless internet access. To the point of where cell-phones are now... for $30-$40/mo you can get pretty much use as you like cell-phone usage.

Once we get this into portables... things will become a lot more useful...

As well - one of the Newton's limitations was poor connectivity...

I think PDA's should be an extension of your home computer... and not even a device you have to consciously backup or sync certain parts to. Like the iPod and iTunes... it should just be a natural extension of your machine...

as well, it shouldn't really even be considered an unrelated accessory. The late Don Crabb (in own of his columns) had suggested that Apple should bundle low end Newtons with their computers... this was a concept I agreed with 100%. Apple's all about creating solutions. They have control of the OS, the hardware and many of the Apps. They could create the ultimate solution. PowerMac/PDA combo system... where the OS and certain apps are intimately familiar with the concept of the PDA.

Your PDA would have all your email addresses, contacts, favorite web pages... even documents if you like.

Handwriting into your PDA takes some effort... in that it's definately not as fast as scribbling onto a piece of paper... but the beauty of it is that it becomes data... you can search on, copy/store... whatever.

I still have the first few notes i'd written on my Newton.... dating from 3/1997. You write it once, it stays "forever"...

Anyhow... just some thoughts...

arn
 
yep

thanks for that link... though Jobs/Apple did try to buy palm early on...

arn
 
If not PDA, where's the code?

My question is, if Apple doesn't come out with a PDA Monday and if they never come out with one, then what ever happened to all that Newton code sitting around at Apple? Apple obviously hasn't licensed (maybe they have?) the Newton code ever since they cut it. They had to be doing something with it all these years. If when Steve stopped production of the Newton and he knew that there wouldn't be another PDA, he probably would have sold the Newton code. But, he didn't. So I think they are coming out with a PDA sometime this year at least. It's a new year, new products, new innovations. Hopefully Apple's going to start the year off right. They're going to kick Microsoft in the face once Apple brings out their tablet computer (that's why Steve's keynote is Monday and not Tuesday). And whatever happened to InkWell? That's what Apple's been holding all these years. I can't wait til Monday!
 
creating "need"

Arn...I agree with your points. I think we see this issue in the same way.

Rereading that article at Fortune gave me both positive and negative vibes. On the pos side, Jobs recognized that the Palm OS specifically wasn't being used much...and I almost inferred that he has decided against any strong aliance with Palm, which I think is a good thing (however, the whole BE thing might be interesting).

On the neg side, he basically said that PDAs aren't a "natural" device like music is. Hello? As if computers in general are a natural device.

Back to Arn's points...I agree that the wireless thing is vital. Back in the golden age of PDA/Wireless, I had my Newton 2000, connected to my ricochet wireless modem. I could be mobile in my car and connecting wirelessly to check my email. It was in incredible set up, and has yet to be equalled.

Wireless
While wireless broadband would be great, I don't think that is "vital" to the rebirth of the PDA market. I think an always on 28k connection would serve the most important and need functions of wireless PDA. The Omni-sky modems are a pretty close solution, but I've choked a bit on spending $40-50 per month to add that to my visor, which I hate using. If I had an updated Newton, I might reconsider.

Telephony
BTW...most people want their PDA combined with the phone. I go back and forth on this one. The perfect size of PDA, however, is going to be larger than the perfect size of phone, and hence will look funny held up to your face. But, why not develop it this way: make the phone work like the hands-free devices; headphones and microphones in one. You'll already want headphones to listen to your MP3s, why not just add a small microphone to the headphones, and you wouldn't have to hold the PDA up to your face to talk.

Connectivity
I completely agree that the PDA should auto update and integrate with your desktop. I'd love to see 802.11 capability so that where that is available (and I believe access points will continue to increase) then you could surf the net at broadband speeds. Additionally, this would make connection to the desktop a breeze.

Screen Size
I think I've made my point that I don't like small screens. The size of the Newton 2000 screen, for me, was great. I'd even accept it perhaps 20% smaller. But, going in an entirely different direction, what of the possibility of a virtually projected screen wearing some style of eye glasses? This would allow you to make the unit very small (iPod size) and yet have huge screen real estate. The problem is that you still need enough "input" screen real estate for HWR...unless you go strictly with voice recognition, which I don't really see as practical. Can you imagine sitting on a plane and talking outloud to your PDA?

Maybe we should create a lobbying coalition to really create momentum and pressure on Apple to not only do this, but to do it right!
 
Re: creating

Originally posted by Timothy



Telephony
BTW...most people want their PDA combined with the phone. I go back and forth on this one. The perfect size of PDA, however, is going to be larger than the perfect size of phone, and hence will look funny held up to your face. But, why not develop it this way: make the phone work like the hands-free devices; headphones and microphones in one. You'll already want headphones to listen to your MP3s, why not just add a small microphone to the headphones, and you wouldn't have to hold the PDA up to your face to talk.
Click to expand...

Yep... I was back and forth - but in the end I've decided integrated systems is not the way to go... I _don't_ want a PDA/cellphone/mp3player combo machine....

It ends up making too many compromises for each function.

I think the big thing will be bluetooth intergrated devices... so your PDA can connect via your cellphone or whatever...

The iWalk videos brought up an interesting thought though - note the iWalk didn't have a modem or ethernet port - yet they claim they could hit a website...

on possibility would be an Airport card <-> Mac. But what if you are on the road? or at your office or elsewhere? On the road, a bluetooth <-> cellphone would be the best solution. Alternative, they could build a modem/airport device which plugs into a phone line and airport connects to your PDA. You plug it into the phoneline whereever you are, and you can connect via it to the internet. Basically it would be a modem module.

It would end up being a cheaper/portable Airport BaseStation.

arn
 
No MP3 player?

While I may agree with you on the phone...I absolutely want the ability to carry, play MP3s on my PDA. It should be such a simple function of the PDA that I don't think it would compromise it in any way. They already have the software (iPod) and would just have to add that to the device, with stereo headphones out.

So...MP3...YES!!!
 
What's the problem with PDA's? I think the idea that PDA's are very anemic and not done right is correct. So, let's play with this....

If Apple introduced a PDA, then what would it do? Well, along the lines of the iPod, it would sync automatically with everything on your computer. E-mail, addresses, music, and possibly even documents. No setting up. Boom, it uploads and keeps an exact copy of the contents of your computer.

PDA's do this, but do it badly.

It would also need to be as easy to use as a regular notepad. I mean scribbles and everything. From what's been said here, Newton already did this. Give it an update and make it even snappier... who knows.

Looks. nuff said.

Phone options? Hmmm... That would be challenging. A hands-free system would have to be the way to go. No one's gonna put a square box up to their face to talk. Even the palm-phones you see suck.

So, in a nutshell, it's a Mac in your hand. Possible? Yah. Will apple do it? Sounds like they did, but were just toying with the idea.

Ok. Whatever. This has all been said before, I guess.
 
Please Steve!

©et it right this time......

I pulled my Newton out after reading all of this and long for the day when I can have all of that functionality connected to my TiPowerbook.

I was there in July, money in hand......don't let me down Steve....do it right!
 
Re: creating

Originally posted by Timothy
Screen Size
I think I've made my point that I don't like small screens. The size of the Newton 2000 screen, for me, was great. I'd even accept it perhaps 20% smaller.
Click to expand...

Nah - forget about Newton 2000 size - go for the full A4 size. With an 15" LCD touch-sensitive screen and Newton's Handwriting recognition, it could compete in the Notebook category: Cheaper than a laptop, yet easier to carry - and more user friendly - with true WYSIWYG capability (hey - it's the same size as a standard letter). It could even have a cut-down OSX, with a CD-Rom, an IR tranceiver and firewire/usb ports to boot.

What more could you want?
 
where Newton technology went

Well, last we heard... Apple had integrated Newton's HWR into Mac OS 9 (and maybe 10) in the form of Inkwell:

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2609364,00.html

inkpad.gif


settings.gif


gestures.gif


But we haven't heard about it since that original article.

arn

 
Why a tablet?

I don't get the Tablet concept. Can someone explain to me what niche a tablet would fill?

As I see it, the tablet would be used in exactly the same places you would normally use a laptop. For example, I am typing this on my powerbook, sitting in my living room. Why would I want to use a tablet instead of my powerbook? What advantage does it give me? I honestly can't see any advantages, and can see several disadvantages.

And...I don't think a tablet has anything to do with a PDA as we have been discussing. Would you take a tablet to a baseball game, for example? Would you take it with you to the grocery store? In short, how often would you take a tablet with you out of the front door?
 
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