Next-Generation 15-Inch MacBook Pro Shows Up in Benchmarks

[jxie0755]

Actually...you do. Or rather, many of us do. You've apparently not done much with gaming. Even a very old game like World of Warcraft practically crawls running side-by-side next to a non-Retina 15" because of all that extra rendering. It's even worse with newer games.

Well, I used to play games but not that much anymore.
So I do know that world of warcraft is 3D, you are talking about 3D processing now, not just pixels anymore. 3D calculation you do need GPU to be fast.

I understand that some people may want a dGPU, I am ok with it. We don't ever refuse a fast GPU do we? It's just that the iGPU is definitely fast enough to deal with the retina monitor itself.

 

[HurryKayne]

No discrete Gpu...?please Apple...

 

[jxie0755]

Pros would be better without the discrete too! Iris 5200 is better for processing OpenCL for Adobe Apps and Raytracing.

Right.

So we can assume that the so called "Pro" who want dGPU are 16 year-old
"Pro gamers". I bet they would definitely consider themselves pros and want a Super Fast GPU that can eat up all the energy.

 

[iChrist]

The new MBPs would look slick if they had the black anodized aluminum of the black iPhone 5. A la BlackBook

I think that would be called ScratchBook instead.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

It has the top-of-the-line Haswell CPU, at least among those with Iris 5200 graphics. So it doesn't look like it's an entry-level, although it's possible Apple could offer discrete as an option at the high-end. Will be interesting to see what they do.

I simply hope they offer the same as an option on the 13". One can dream.

 

[4nNtt]

Unless Apple offers a top end option with discrete graphics (and I hope they do), this will be a set back. Battery life will get much, much better (which is a plus) even doing graphically intense things, yes. And the Iris Pro 5200 with dedicated RAM is within 20% of the GT650 for some tasks. But for graphically intense work (like video effects rendering), it's a step backwards.

My guess is two possible scenarios: 1) offer an entry and mid grade with integrated Iris GPU and lower clocked CPU... and 2) a ultimate and/or BTO option to get a dedicated GPU with a higher clocked non-Iris Intel CPU... (note, Intel's Haswell chips with lesser integrated graphics have higher clock speeds for the CPU overall). Still better battery life, etc... but the option for more speed when needed.

My fear however is there will instead be no dedicated option across the line, and in return they offer a lower price point (nice) and better battery but lower overall graphical performance.

To cover all possible "pros", they should offer 1&2 vs. 3. This test isn't indicative yet of every laptop in the 15" rMBP line yet. I hope.

Video effects rendering is likely using OpenCL so it should be faster on the Iris 5200. The Iris is optimized for compute instead of texturing. Even if the effects rendering is using shaders, the texture unit is more then sufficient for this type of work as it is much less demanding then video games.

I'm actually happy they made these optimization decisions. I'll just buy a Playstation 4 for video games. I want my MacBook Pro to be good at compute over filling polygons. Just as long as it is good enough for UI drawing, 3D modeling apps, post production, etc. that is good enough for me. I'd like to see some raytracing benchmarks with the level 4 cache. That may give the 20% performance boost Intel said they saw in certain applications.

 

[cube]

Video effects rendering is likely using OpenCL so it should be faster on the Iris 5200. The Iris is optimized for compute instead of texturing. Even if the effects rendering is using shaders, the texture unit is more then sufficient for this type of work as it is much less demanding then video games.

I'm actually happy they made these optimization decisions. I'll just buy a Playstation 4 for video games. I want my MacBook Pro to be good at compute over filling polygons. Just as long as it is good enough for UI drawing, 3D modeling apps, post production, etc. that is good enough for me. I'd like to see some raytracing benchmarks with the level 4 cache. That may give the 20% performance boost Intel said they saw in certain applications.

OpenCL could be faster on a high end discrete GPU when the problem is big enough.

 

[blue22]

possibly no discrete GPU is a concern...

Please include a discrete graphics chip with this rMBP update Apple...

 

[4nNtt]

Lets hope that there are models available with a discrete gpu, I think price points and comparable performance will quickly become laughable if not.
Models without and with a whopping great battery in this form factor will probably be ok for some, but not many.

The focus will definitely be on battery. If you just bought a 2012 or early 2013 MacBook Pro, you are better off waiting for a process change unless the extra battery life is important. If they were to put a 750GT in, it would offer relatively minor performance improvement in niche apps (yes gaming is a niche app on OS X). Haswell/Iris has an incredible amount of performance per watt for the tasks these machines are used for. They are basically becoming better balanced instead of more powerful. If performance is more important then battery life you should really be looking at a Mac Pro instead.

 

[Laucian Nailor]

Apologies as I'm not familiar with Geekbench, but where does it indicate this is a 15" laptop as opposed to, say a new high end 13" model?

 

[Eithanius]

Apologies as I'm not familiar with Geekbench, but where does it indicate this is a 15" laptop as opposed to, say a new high end 13" model?

I doubt Apple would plonk a quad-core processor on a 13" and effectively cannibalising the low-end 15"...

It's 47W on the TDP...!

Hot Hot Hot...!!!

 

[4nNtt]

i'm not sure.. that would disappoint many, it's a clear step backward, and people clearly see that.
if you want to find out your own, just take the TDP of the gpu and cpu of the actual rMPB, and try to match it with something new in the market, that's the current limit the chassis can dissipate.
i imagine, and many will agree, that iris + dedicated gpu is too much heat to dissipate (though they don't work together, so the maximum instantaneous TDP is less than the sum of the two combined..) also, i don't know if there are data about haswell TDPs with the gpu shut off. it will be nice to know.
i'm a lot curious but also too lazy to do the math, if someone wants to do it.. please come forward!

edit: if i may add, ditching the gpu cannot then justify a ~3k$ model anymore (and even 2k for sane people), so that would force them to modify the whole lineup!

I don't see why the price would change unless they found savings in other areas. The price premium for the Iris 5200 is about the same as adding a 750GT. I think the Iris 5200 actually has more transistors then the 750GT. I don't think these machines can handle a 780GT nor do I see a significant benefit. You just don't need that kind of mobile GPU performance. Particularly since you are not going to be mobile very long with that chip. If you need that kind of performance, get a Mac Pro with dual FireGL chips.

As for pricing. It costs what it costs. That is just component costs + margin. I doubt they would increase margin.

 

[cube]

I doubt Apple would plonk a quad-core processor processor on a 13" and effectively cannibalising the low-end 15"...

It's 47W on the TDP...!

Hot Hot Hot...!!!

It is what is needed.

 

[4nNtt]

I doubt Apple would plonk a quad-core processor on a 13" and effectively cannibalising the low-end 15"...

It's 47W on the TDP...!

Hot Hot Hot...!!!

I don't think they care about cannibalizing. Quad-core is important to me since I do a lot of compute intensive work. It will be a hard call if both sizes come out with quad-cores. The old 13" oddly had a lot of unused space. It looks like they were trying to fit a hard drive or fusion drive in that model and changed their mind. They should be able to fit a bigger cooler in that machine to go quad-core. It will be interesting to see what happens with the 13".

 

[djra8]

I'd use the retina display for all of my day-to-day stuff. You must play too many games. These are not gaming laptops. I'm sure you can find a laptop elsewhere for less that is just designed for gaming. I look forward to buying one of these for professional work.

I look forward to buying this for profesional work also, but I also like to game.. Its insane to have the new model be worse than the previous. Apple is sacrificing raw power for a thinner case, just like they are sacrificing expandability and a second processor in their mac "pro". Apple has turned away from its true pro users in favor of the general consumer.. why? because its more profitable. their new mac "pro" and macbook "pro" is proof.

 

[jxie0755]

Video effects rendering is likely using OpenCL so it should be faster on the Iris 5200. The Iris is optimized for compute instead of texturing. Even if the effects rendering is using shaders, the texture unit is more then sufficient for this type of work as it is much less demanding then video games.

I'm actually happy they made these optimization decisions. I'll just buy a Playstation 4 for video games. I want my MacBook Pro to be good at compute over filling polygons. Just as long as it is good enough for UI drawing, 3D modeling apps, post production, etc. that is good enough for me. I'd like to see some raytracing benchmarks with the level 4 cache. That may give the 20% performance boost Intel said they saw in certain applications.

I agree with you.

The laptop is not an omni-machine for you to do everything, you want long battery life and reasonable performance. You need to find a balance. the Rmbp is already faster than macbook air that's for sure. But it doesn't need to go that extreme to be equiped with a GTX graphic card, just because some of you want to play some video games on it. And a real "PRO" won't be trying to make a pixar movie out from a RMBP, they would use Mac Pro the desktop machine.

And as I say, if apple is going to use RMBP replace the cMBP entirely, the price need to go down. Cutting off the dGPU at least on entry models would be a good way to lowering the price. In the mean time, simplify the product and give better heat control.

Once again, the macbook "PRO" is just a way of naming things, don't OVERINTERPRET it as "Exclusive for pro". Don't you guys see how many people are buying macbook pro in apple store? How many of them are real PRO who edit graphic and videos for living ?????
When we are talking about an ultimate laptop that suites most people, performance is not the only factor being considered here.

 

[gxtoast]

Apple has turned away from its true pro users in favor of the general consumer.. why? because its more profitable. their new mac "pro" and macbook "pro" is proof.

I think when people experience the performance capability of the new Mac Pro they will not be saying it is a consumer product. It certainly isn't spec'd like one, and it won't be priced like one. You won't find anything like the Mac Pro from DELL or HP.

 

[4nNtt]

OpenCL could be faster on a high end discrete GPU when the problem is big enough.

Definitely, but to see the difference you would need to go to something like a GeForce 780 which draws too much power and produces too much heat for a thin form factor. They would need to dedicate much more space for the cooler. It doesn't makes sense to make that tradeoff for a mobile machine. The only chip that makes sense is the 750GT and that doesn't give a big enough performance improvement to be worth the battery drain and space. The GeForce line also isn't ideal for some pro apps since it doesn't use ECC memory. The glitches may not be noticeable (single pixel errors probably something like 1 per million) for some applications. It depends on the algorithm and requirements on how important it is. Usually very important for scientific apps.

 

[Serban]

i think the difference between 750M and Iris Pro is like the difference between 650M and Hd4000

 

[4nNtt]

I agree with you.

The laptop is not an omni-machine for you to do everything, you want long battery life and reasonable performance. You need to find a balance. the Rmbp is already faster than macbook air that's for sure. But it doesn't need to go that extreme to be equiped with a GTX graphic card, just because some of you want to play some video games on it. And a real "PRO" won't be trying to make a pixar movie out from a RMBP, they would use Mac Pro the desktop machine.

And as I say, if apple is going to use RMBP replace the cMBP entirely, the price need to go down. Cutting off the dGPU at least on entry models would be a good way to lowering the price. In the mean time, simplify the product and give better heat control.

Once again, the macbook "PRO" is just a way of naming things, don't OVERINTERPRET it as "Exclusive for pro". Don't you guys see how many people are buying macbooks in apple store? How many of them are real PRO?????
When we are talking about an ultimate laptop that suites most people, performance is not the only factor being considered here.

I fully agree, although the Iris 5200 isn't going to drop the price. It is an expensive and powerful part (or is it part of a part). It would make sense for a dual core varient with an Iris 5100 to hit a lower price. Of course the product for everyone is really the Air. You would only buy a low end MacBook Pro if the retina display was really important.

 

[jxie0755]

I fully agree, although the Iris 5200 isn't going to drop the price. It is an expensive and powerful part (or is it part of a part). It would make sense for a dual core varient with an Iris 5100 to hit a lower price. Of course the product for everyone is really the Air. You would only buy a low end MacBook Pro if the retina display was really important.

One thing I don't understand is that why Intel can not make a dual core regular haswell with Iris/Iris Pro that can be used on 13RMBP?

Because from what I know, you either have the quad core HQ with Iris Pro like this geekbench test one has, or the previous geekbench tested ultra low voltage with Iris. The regular ones all comes with HD5000 like the macbook air has.

 

[4nNtt]

I look forward to buying this for profesional work also, but I also like to game.. Its insane to have the new model be worse than the previous. Apple is sacrificing raw power for a thinner case, just like they are sacrificing expandability and a second processor in their mac "pro". Apple has turned away from its true pro users in favor of the general consumer.. why? because its more profitable. their new mac "pro" and macbook "pro" is proof.

I don't think it is insane. They are balancing the specs that matter for pros. It should also play games pretty well on the side, but that isn't what it is designed for. I think it would be insane to put a chip (maybe the 780GT) that draws as much power as a desktop chip to be better at gaming (that it should already be pretty good at). Gaming laptops are optimized much different and pro work would suffer. Usually lower res display since none of these chips are good at driving high resolutions in games yet, big cooler in a bulkier case, few CPU cores since games don't use them heavily, and a big GPU.

 

[VoR]

I think when people experience the performance capability of the new Mac Pro they will not be saying it is a consumer product. It certainly isn't spec'd like one, and it won't be priced like one. You won't find anything like the Mac Pro from DELL or HP.

Dell and HP make a broad range of workstation machines - Might not come in an interesting shaped case, but simply mentioning 'performance' with regards to what's possible to buy off the shelf from other manufacturers is pretty naive.

 

[LOLyoufaildhard]

nice one

i think the difference between 750M and Iris Pro is like the difference between 650M and Hd4000

I've just created an account only to vote up your comment! Congratulations, m8!

 

[4nNtt]

One thing I don't understand is that why Intel can not make a dual core regular haswell with Iris/Iris Pro that can be used on 13RMBP?

Because from what I know, you either have the quad core HQ with Iris Pro like this geekbench test one has, or the previous geekbench tested ultra low voltage with Iris. The regular ones all comes with HD5000 like the macbook air has.

The dual-core uses the Iris 5100. It is the same as the 5200 except it is lacking the level 4 cache. Intel said they didn't see a big performance difference when driving fewer CPU cores. I expect we will see this as an option on the new Mac Book Pro. That will basically replace the HD Graphics 4000 chips with a huge performance improvement. If you less compute intensive work, but want a retina display that will probably be the chip of choice. Particularly for graphics designers. The 5100 should have plenty of OpenCL performance for Photoshop.

Actually the HD5000 is the same as the Iris 5200 (minus L4 cache) too, but it is way under-clocked.